Doctor Who 13x4 - Poll!

I don't know where they'll take it going forward, but I refuse to believe the "and will stand as monument to their shame, like the Weeping Angels of old" line was originally written to mean Weeping Angels used to be Time Lords or anything like that. Has no one heard of metaphors or similes? I'm pretty sure he only mentions the Weeping Angels as a reference point that, apparently, all the Timelords are familiar with. If Rassilon had instead said "and will live in the woods in their shame, like the squirrels of old" would people be thinking that squirrels used to be Time Lords?

CheeseRepair

When Rassilon referred to the Doctors "parents" as standing in shame with their hands covering their faces "like the Weeping Angels of old." The words "of old" makes me think he is referring the time when Ruths Doctor was working with the division and so were the angels.

Starkiller100

No mostly because I would be so confused as to when (which timeline) the Time Lords would become Weeping Angels.

Joel

They have to be because, Time Lords have never dabbed and Weeping Angels have never dabbed. I rest my case.

I think yes, to an extent. I think they're early attempts to transfer The Doctor's regeneration abilities gone wrong.

Tim

Rassilon made the two dissenting Time Lords in The End of Time "stand witness like the Weeping Angels of old", so I think there are ties to the Time Lords. I definitely wouldn't say they're 1:1. For one thing, I'd imagine the regeneration process would kick in and save them. Next, it'd be quite bizarre for neither The Doctor or The Master to have learned that they are Angels or vice versa. So, my theory is that the Division is a long-standing Time Lord faction created by Rassilon after The Doctor (Twelve) exiled him from Gallifrey. He went back in time to mess with The Doctor's history (including creating the Timeless Child story) for revenge against The Doctor for usurping his control of Gallifrey several times (finally in Hell Bent). He created the Division, recruiting and gang-pressing individuals into service across time and space to enforce his plans, including use of the Weeping Angels as extremely deadly assassins. Rassilon based Quantum Extraction on the Weeping Angel's quantum lock behaviour, essentially using it like Star Wars's carbonite freezing to capture and detain Division agents and others who desert their posts. Rassilon orchestrated Swarm's jailbreak and rise to power so that he would instinctively disrupt time for the grand plan to work, fracturing time and working in conjunction with the Flux (a spacial weapon he constructed) to cripple the universe and (figuratively) cripple The Doctor with so many issues that she couldn't deal with the Division's ultimate plan in its endgame to breach across to other realities (likely so Rassilon could find a Gallifrey untarnished by The Doctor or his defeats). Rassilon is likely that mysterious woman seen in S12E3, and wiped Ruth Doctor's memory after serving the Division to keep The Doctor from working against them. This would also explain why the Gallifreyan Matrix, a core part of the Time Lord infrastructure which would be highly protected, was able to have such a substantial chunk of its mainframe corrupted. Lord President Rassilon (or a future version taking the long way around) would be able to access the Matrix and remove compromising data concerning The Doctor and the Division from it.

Ollie Grosvenor

I don't think it's true, but I'm ok with it if it is. I think it's a neat idea, but I don't think as of yet we have any evidence to back it up until this episode. Though what happened in this episode could have other explanations, so I'm still not sold on it.

Kevin Morris

No i think it is just about the doctor not all time lords

Dip602

Wasn't it said they were remnants of the Universe, that was before this one? Angels were survivors of the collapse of the previous Universe, I think.

Red Claw

I don't think they are. I highly doubt Moffat originally conceived them as such and while it's certainly possible Chibnall or a future writer could make that reveal I don't think it's hugely likely.

Katherine Jennings

I think it’s an amazing fan theory, but I think it should stay just that. One of those things that is up to the viewer to decide if they believe or not. I don’t think I would like to see any confirmation of this in the cannon. Sort of like with the Doctors name.

Alphonse

I think with the weeping angels being such relatively new monsters, adding this theory to their lore would make them really interesting going forward and could prevent them from becoming stale in the long run.

Ethan Prendergast

Nope. Just because Rassilon mentioned them doesn't make them Time Lords. He does know more races other than Time Lords, after all. They're just a super ancient race.

Scribbles