Buffy the Vampire Slayer 2x19 FULL Reaction
Added 2022-03-18 18:15:00 +0000 UTCHe's back??? (not who you think, but you'll tell in the reaction :)). This episode brought up some really interesting questions and made me thing. Also, what a cliffhanger ending, I so want to know what exactly Spike has in mind...
Comments
This song has creeped me out since a Disney Channel movie I seen as a kid. Here, it's worse.
fatalfae
2024-04-14 15:49:00 +0000 UTCi love your reactions and you're extremely intuitive but all the talk about "full understanding" about the situation when you were missing the deeper meaning of the episode i can't help but laugh at because its just so ironicđ
Esme Ostrow
2023-01-16 03:12:19 +0000 UTCWhat really struck me about this episode was when Buffy said âHe wants forgiveness⌠but he doesnât deserve it⌠James destroyed the one person he loved the most in a moment of blind passion and thatâs not something you forgiveâ For me, it seems she understands the ghost because in a moment of blind passion, Buffy feels that she killed the one person she loved the most and she canât forgive herself for what happened to Angel
Tara
2022-09-16 22:28:44 +0000 UTCOne of my favourites of this season. The whole final act with Buffy and Angel and then Buffy looking in the mirror and seeing James itâs just *chefs kiss* I love it, gives me goosebumps the whole time. The acting is unreal and the script is so good
Nichole Hutchison
2022-03-23 23:35:28 +0000 UTCthe 40 yr old that asked buffy out in the beginning, Hilarious
Christine Ester
2022-03-23 01:00:22 +0000 UTCI know! I really like how this episode leans into some horror elements, that's a style I'd love to see more of in this show!
Nicholas Crowell
2022-03-21 20:14:09 +0000 UTCGreat reaction! I forgot how fantastic SMG's acting was in this. BtVS is rarely actually scary but this episode always terrifies me.
S Martinez
2022-03-21 18:34:33 +0000 UTCJessica, I meant 1940s/50s movies not real life. I think the writing and style of acting was inspired by older films.
Effie
2022-03-19 22:40:02 +0000 UTCBut she's taking the ENTIRETY of the blame on herself, as James should with Grace. The difference being that Angel wasn't an innocent victim, he was a consenting (16x older) adult. And again, by having Buffy suddenly be all "I destroyed Angel!", it's giving Angel an IMO wholly unearned whitewash. He's no less responsible for unleashing Angelus than he is for Angelus's crimes (since Angelus is a part of the hybrid called Angel, a part Angel makes use of when it suits him [fighting, intimidation, playing detective by smelling blood], and the demon remembers every moment of Angel's life). JMO. And "I did it" means she precipitated the event, not that she was morally wrong to do so. There's a heck of a lot of difference between consensual coitus and manslaughter (to say nothing of Angel's serial killings, including perhaps the toddler he ends the episode by searching for), but the episode wants us to blur the lines. I resent that, but JMO. And I hate to be lazy and let someone else do the work, but I've never been able to match the pure rage that David Hines brought to his review (and he was writing at the time where I have future knowledge, even if I'm working to filter it out), so: "Later, Buffy tells Giles that she doesn't understand why the teacher forgave James. Giles doesn't either. But, he says -- or rather, the writer says through him -- it doesn't matter. YES, GODDAMMIT, IT *DOES* MATTER. It matters because this episode is obviously a set-up for Buffy's being able to forgive Angel when he gets his soul back (retch). It matters because Marti Noxon's script, broadcast to an entire *nation,* with an audience of which a large viewing segment is young girls, *upheld* the tendency of battered women to forgive and embrace the bastards who harm them, even unto death, as GOOD AND WISE AND NOBLE. Forgive me for finding that just the teensiest bit morally reprehensible. And finally, for those who live wholly in the universe of the series and don't have a thought for what the show's message is: it matters because the teacher James and his lover wasted in their re-enactment is STILL DEAD. The life of the janitor who shot her is still ruined. Apparently, the fact that *they* suffered from James's actions, too, isn't relevant. Nobody asked for their forgiveness. But the teacher isn't any less dead. And neither is Jenny Calendar, or Theresa, or the streetwalker from "Innocence," or the quaint little shopgirl, or any of the others Angel's waxed. They're all dead, but nobody seems to care, especially not Marti Noxon, who'd rather just skip to the Buffy/Angel snuggles."
Jessica Roth
2022-03-19 22:23:39 +0000 UTCWere the 1950s really prone to melodramatic dialogue in ordinary life? I'm dubiousâŚbut if so, it must have kept things interesting. :)
Jessica Roth
2022-03-19 21:59:49 +0000 UTCNobody said it was a healthy thing or that it's the only thing she blames herself for. And she actually has felt guilty in previous episodes. In "Innocence", she says "So it was me, I did it." And Jenny agress with her. Also, feeling guilt for the consequences IS what we're saying. It may not make sense to you that she blames herself because it's not her fault, but it's not out of the norm for her to think that way, especially as a young adult / teen.
ShinShi
2022-03-19 21:09:12 +0000 UTCI donât know if you were on a high from Synder but I agree with a previous commenter that you seem to be having a blast with this episode đ. But thatâs cool to see and authenticity is what most people want from reactors anyway. I also found it funny that you suspected the charm Willow gave to Giles. I personally love natural stones so I found that such a touching scene since âRose Quartzâ is mainly associated with love. I donât know what witches use stones for but Iâd assume this particular crystal is not one they would reach for when casting a curse or anything like that hahaha. I agree the dialogue was melodramatic but since the ghosts were from 1950s (?) I think that makes sense. It actually reminded me of the dramatic scenes between George and Mary in âItâs a wonderful lifeâ (if youâve seen that). Speaking of the ghosts and their love story, I agree itâs complicated. Iâd never advocate for a student/ teacher romance but I donât necessarily think that things ended badly because the student was taken advantage of. While some teens are impressionable, I think teenagers are just as capable of truly falling in love just like adults can. In the cases where it becomes âtoxic,â I think there needs to be a deeper look into the home life and mental stability of the person. James confronting his lover with a gun is more than a romance gone awry. He may have had some mental illness or suffered abuse and maybe he saw the teacher as his only hope in the worldâŚwho knows? But in the flashback it was shown that James shot her by accident, so I donât think the teacher ever hated him. James needed the forgiveness because he hated himself. Theme of forgiveness - Other comments have already summed up my thoughts on the parallels between the ghosts and Buffy and Angel. Buffy blamed herself for what happened to Angel and so I liked that the dialogue was very fitting for their situation as well. The ghostâs dialogue is what Iâd imagine Angel would say to Buffy if his soul was in tact (that it wasnât her fault and that he still loves her) so Iâm glad Buffy got to hear that. Regarding forgiveness, I 100% agree that when someone hurts us in real life, there shouldnât be pressure to forgive. Anger and pain is a natural response and shouldnât be suppressed. However, when it comes to forgiveness, I think in many cases itâs more necessary for the person harmed than the perpetrator. For me the inability to forgive comes from the notion that âno one has the right toâ (hurt me, harm me, reject me etc). We have laws/ justice system and idealogical constructs that âprotectâ us but essentially free will actually includes the possibility of harming each other. Even with our laws there is no stopping it because the only other way is to control free will altogether (which creates another problem). So as much as I understand the difficulty of forgiveness (i.e.: Buffyâs view on James), I also think that there is an element of control in thinking that people can or should only act and treat you in the way you see fit. And itâs because of this perspective that Buffy was unable to forgive James and herself. Judging her âmistakeâ with Angel as if she had no right to make it in the first place. But the harsh truth is that there was no way to predict, prevent or control what happened with the teacher or Angel. As for Drusilla, I think sheâd choose Angel over Spike. This is why even though Spike and Dru have âaffectionâ, I donât think what they have is love in the purest sense. Dru liked Spikeâs aggression but she really craves violence and pure evil. I view Angelus as the devil incarnate so yeah, Iâd say she loves him more. A final point about the final scene with Angelus. I always found his disgusted feeling after being possessed intriguing because it gives us a glimpse into what Angelus (demon) had to endure with Buffy and Angelâs love. That must have been a torturous experience haha. Anyway, I enjoyed this reaction as always :)
Effie
2022-03-19 20:46:28 +0000 UTCDude, people can be monolingual. I don't mind and I don't care. And I understand that if you (think you) don't have need for a 2nd language, then don't learn any, esp. if you take no interest in linguistics. I just don't like when monolinguals bash other people's language skills or flaws. It bothers me when someone makes an effort to communicate in not their first language and then feels the need to apologise (on a platform that basically has no rules attached to it in terms of which language to use) for not being fluent or perfect. And even with native speakers of English: you never know whether someone is dyslexic, or didn't have the fortune of a good education. As long as comments are understandable, appropriate and polite enough, just let them be. So, I apologise if you or anybody else felt attacked by my comment. I didn't mean to offend anyone. (I'm not sure though I'd call anyone "lucky" to not have to depend on language skills though. I'm biased because I'm a linguist "by trade", but knowing another language opens so many doors and windows to people, places, cultures, and mindsets that I feel very lucky indeed to not be monolingual. Even watching a show like Buffy in its original and not subbed or dubbed is a very different and rewarding experience). Love and light, everybody.
Claudi H
2022-03-19 18:16:46 +0000 UTCTo be. fair, a lot of us are (functionally) monolingual precisely because English has reached such a prominent position. If French was still giving "lingua Franca" its name, we'd be speaking French, I'm sure. So "lucky" is a bit over the line, I'd argue. Shalom. A bientot. Vaya con Dios. Do svidonya. (And wow, am I lucky not to have to depend on any of those skills. Since my Spanish mostly applies to boxing and futbol, and my German consists of almost nothing but numbers, philosophical concepts, Nazi military ranks, and obscenities. Learning Russian is going rather nicely, though; I can say "I love my cat" quite well. Peace.)
Jessica Roth
2022-03-19 17:10:51 +0000 UTCBut that makes no sense. If Angel hadn't been a willing participant, he could never have achieved orgasm, much less "perfect happiness" relaxing afterwards. And Buffy hasn't been blaming herself, before. She knew what Angel was and accepted itâŚwhich turned out to be part of the problem. Now she feels guilty about the CONSEQUENCES, being "You must be so disappointed in me" in 2.14 and "I live with that every day" in 2.15 and "it's a little late for both" in 2.16 and "I'm sorry that I couldn't kill him before" in 2.17 and "As long as I'm the Slayer, Angel's not going to kill anybody else" in 2.18, but that's different from saying she blames herself for "destroying" Angel. That comes right out of the blue in this episode. And given that this ep seems to say that Buffy should forgive Angel if he ever gets "fixed", that it was all her fault, that's a message that some people find really gross. "Girls, forgive your abuser" is something I can't get behind, and having Grace tell the boy who KILLED her that "I loved you with my last breath" seems to be skating too close to the edge, And to do it in service of a possible "Buffy and Angel are kissing again! Yay! Jenny who?" agenda is NOT a good thing. JMO.
Jessica Roth
2022-03-19 16:48:25 +0000 UTCdone
AmosRambles
2022-03-19 08:17:09 +0000 UTCâWhy did she forgive him this time and not the other timesâ⌠because this is the first time she âsurvivedâ being shot?
Kyle Junge
2022-03-19 04:35:32 +0000 UTCBest comment ever. "It's just villain ethics!"
Nicholas J Hoover
2022-03-19 03:18:03 +0000 UTCThat's what I came here to say. That Buffy blames herself and she projects her blame onto the guy which is why she said what he did was unforgivable because she feels like she is unforgivable even though logically it's not her fault. It even matches up that angel is over age and Buffy is underage.
Nicholas J Hoover
2022-03-19 03:13:38 +0000 UTCI love how the music in the Bronze (Charge by Splendid) illuminated the sadness Buffy is feeling. The music through out the episode was great. Buffy couldn't understand why the teacher would forgive James because she can't forgive herself for. The teacher, Grace, forgave James because she felt she was also to blame. She made James think she no longer loved him when it wasn't true. But in reality James wasn't the one who was to blame, Grace was. If James was the same age as Buffy he was 17. The teacher should have never been in a romantic relationship with a student at all. Someone who is in position of authority with James. He couldn't let go of a relationship he should never have been in to begin with.
Bud Haven
2022-03-19 02:56:26 +0000 UTCDr. Laura was a radio psychiatrist in the 90s. She became increasingly political over the years, but at this point, she was mostly one of those "Talk straight to you" therapists that were all the rage then. I love the repetitions of the scene, like three levels of acting class exercises, different pairs of students doing the same thing, until we see how it's supposed to be done with Sarah and David.
FernWithy
2022-03-19 02:55:45 +0000 UTCAgree with this completely. Buffy does not believe she deserves forgiveness for what she did to Angel by wanting a moment of passion and in reflection believes James does not deserve it either. In essence Buffy believes she killed Angel and is grieving this (even though Angelus is still kicking about). Great reaction keep it up. Get very excited every time I see a notification of a new one.
Emma Carter
2022-03-19 01:28:20 +0000 UTCOn villian morals... yeah vampires have none of those. No humanity in Angelus, member? Spike has some connection left over from his humanity but no morality per se.
Dutchkel
2022-03-18 23:03:02 +0000 UTCYes the main theme was forgiveness. But, as others have already commented, Buffy identifies with James. She canât forgive herself for killing Angel and she doesnât understand how others could forgive her for the consequences.
Vicky N
2022-03-18 21:48:43 +0000 UTC1.fully agree and your English doesn't look broken 2. as a non-native speaker of English myself: do not apologise for having gone through the effort of learning another language ever! I know we're obviously following an English speaker here on Patreon, but I see so many comments on YT of people apologising for their "bad English". Ugh. As far as I know, there is no law that one must communicate in English on the Internet or that your English needs to be flawless. The only thing I apologise for rn is this little rant here (and man, I'm kinda holding back right now!) More than 350 million ppl speak English as their first language. Almost half a billion people are using English as their second language! There are plenty of monolingual anglophones out there who are just lucky that English is the world's lingua franca. Be proud of your 2nd/3rd/4th whatever language skills and if any native speaker of English ever calls you out on your "broken" English, tell them to EFF OFF in all the languages you know! Have a lovely day/weekend :)
Claudi H
2022-03-18 21:13:39 +0000 UTCI remember watching this episode for the first time and wondering why Buffy was going into the school alone and getting worried for her- then I saw Angel and realized he couldn't die from a gunshot wound and thought "what an amazing clever notion"- to have the vampire who can't die replaced as the victim to make the story have its happy ending. I also love Giles, his whole character, you cant help but feel overprotective for him, its like he becomes your second father in media perspectives.
Eileen Furtado
2022-03-18 21:07:50 +0000 UTCI don´t know if you picked up on this, because you didn´t really mention it in your afterthoughts, but everytime Buffy was talking about forgiveness and about how she (the teacher) can´t forgive the student, Buffy was refering to her relationship to Angel, and how she could ever forgive him.
Nicologik Reacts
2022-03-18 20:55:51 +0000 UTCSomeone had fun filming this đ. Loved it. Great reaction! I think this episode is about Buffy accidentally âkillingâ Angel and having to forgive herself mostly. Willow even tells her at the start âit wasnât your faultâ. When she is possessed by Jamesâs ghost you can tell she is going through the same love-hate-desperation the student was feeling for his teacher that Buffy has for Angel/Angelus. Sheâs angry that her loveâs taken away, at the same time hates the thing (Angelus) thatâs torturing her/killing her friends and hurting her so much. When she talks about how James does not deserve forgiveness, itâs so heartbreaking because to me she was always talking about herself not deserving forgiveness. Cordelia hits the nail on the head when she points out that Buffy is âidentifying muchâ. She still doesnât understand in the end why Ms Newman forgave James. I think she forgave him because she knew that it was an accident and that James loved her, but that it was wrong (as you rightly said from the start) to have a relationship with a student. At the same time Angel (as Ms N.) forgiving Buffy(James) telling her it wasnât her fault and that he loved her with his last breath is probably smth Buffy needed to hear (as much as having to forgive herself). Also, obviously all the previous hosts, being human, were actually killed and not able to âcarry outâ the act of forgiveness. Only when James possessed an undead that was able to come back there could be a resolution.
Claudi H
2022-03-18 20:53:56 +0000 UTCThis is where we start to see the series become so much more complex in it's layering of emotions, conflicts and consequences. These elements will now begin to be woven into the fantastic quilt that is Buffy the Vampire Slayer the series going forward.
Darrell Palmer
2022-03-18 20:46:00 +0000 UTCMy thoughts on this episode is that Buffy relates to the ghost James, because she feels that in a moment of passion, she also destroyed her lover Angel, and is angry and unable to forgive herself. Another parallel seems to be one person of the couple being a minor and the other someone much older. James and Buffy being the high school students, and the teacher / Angel being older. It's tough for Buffy to forgive herself or Angelus too for killing Miss Calendar.
ShinShi
2022-03-18 20:29:53 +0000 UTCDelete your last sentence please, that's a spoiler.
anticonstructivist55
2022-03-18 20:29:51 +0000 UTCGreat reaction. I remember watching this the first time and being surprised when they subverted expectations with having the guy possess Buffy. Though it makes sense, as they needed the teacher to be able to âsurviveâ being shot and falling from the balcony, to allow the forgiveness. Buffy is also still in pain and grieving from what Angelus has done to her. She cannot forgive Angelus, so relates that to the teacher not being able to forgive the person who shot her. Weâve had moments in past episodes, where we get indications that Snyder and the police know more than you would expect (eg at the end of school hard when they are discussing how they will explain the vampire attack on the school as gang related / PCP), but I forgot this was when Snyder actually acknowledged the school was on a Hellmouth, and those that know extend all the way to the mayorâs office.
AmosRambles
2022-03-18 20:20:17 +0000 UTCThe teacher forgives her boyfriend this time because this is the only time she survives, she posseses Angel, and because he is a vampire he survives the shot. Sorry for my broken english
anticonstructivist55
2022-03-18 19:15:41 +0000 UTC
