Regarding Recent Developments
Added 2019-12-21 06:16:22 +0000 UTCHey there guys,
Apologies in advance for being just a little bit cheeky with the comic there, but it's been a bit of a run around.
So as I mentioned I wanted to make a longer post about what's happened in regards to content on our Patreon.
Patreon's Trust and Safety Team contacted us about a week and a half ago saying our account was no longer in good standing and would be suspended should we not adhere to their guidelines. We were a little confused - we'd heard from other Trust and Safety members who had clearly defined what was and was not allowed, and based on their definitions we were within the guidelines. Unfortunately, according to our most recent discussions with a member of the team, this is no longer the case. Apparently what is considered acceptable by Patreon staff has changed.
All adult interaction between Devon and Addison had to be removed, and we weren't allowed to link to it from the site. In order to finish the comic and not be suspended that content was removed from Patreon and PrimeLeap. It is, however, still free to read on our other gallery sites, and the most recent pages are still available and accessible on PrimeLeap as they don't contain the horrific content Patreon suddenly so opposes.
We tried to get clear-cut definitions under this new interpretation of the rules, but ultimately ended up feeling swept under the rug. Specific questions with specific examples were met collectively with generic single-sentence responses.
Furries are now humans. And sentient, intelligent feral creatures are animals. Unless they're mythical creatures. Then they don't count, because they're NOT REAL. Oh, robots are also animals if they're shaped like an animal. But they're humans if they're shaped like humans. We think.
To say the least, this has thrown a large wrench in things as far as bonus content and thank you images, which we had been working on for you guys to close out NHNF. It's been a large setback. The good news is that we can finish the comic, and that our next comic featuring Thistle and Kindle should not violate the rules in any way. Until, I suppose, the rules are reinterpreted again - but I guess we'll take that as it comes.
I am sorry about the sudden changes; I wish Patreon had a clear set of guidelines that they would publish and then adhere to themselves. But that's a christmas wish I don't think we'll be getting.
To be clear, we still want everyone who has supported to have access to the high-res version of NHNF, and Patreon has said that it's fine for it to exist as long as it doesn't exist here and isn't linked to or from here in any way. It may take a bit of time, but we will be restoring your access to those pages at some point in the future. It just won't be here, and you won't be finding out that it's ready or where it is from here. We'll be figuring out the best way to contact you all about that when we're further along that path.
TL;DR Patreon doesn't like sentient birds and furries fucking anymore. We can still finish the comic, and recent pages are available on PrimeLeap. Older pages are available in the usual free places. High-res access will be restored at a future date, in a place unrelated to Patreon, to people who have helped support the comic during its production.
Thanks for your understanding, guys.
Comments
Yeah, discord guidelines say no human/feral or human/furry NSFW. This would technically be within the guidelines just on a fine line. However, linking the discord server would be difficult. It says in this post that no links "in any way" Linking a discord server on patreon is on a fine line with the guidelines. No mater what FF does its gonna be on a fine line and aggravating as fuck.
Kelath dragon-wolf
2020-06-16 23:59:55 +0000 UTCThis truly aggravates me to no end.
couchy
2020-05-31 01:35:29 +0000 UTCDiscord is a good idea.
StripeyArse
2020-05-07 23:31:01 +0000 UTCThe discord thing is not a bad idea. Offer the $5 per month backers an exclusive discord we can access to share the content. That way it's not linking directly to the posts on patreon.
2020-03-06 07:02:57 +0000 UTCYou could use discord and then in discord maybe send it out from there
Bagi117
2020-03-02 20:58:34 +0000 UTCCensorship is spreading like a plague everywhere. Stay strong!
2020-02-29 15:30:34 +0000 UTCPatreon R.I.P.
2019-12-29 10:48:16 +0000 UTCThat's an option on the table, but we have heard from other Patreon Creator's who use discord servers that have had Patreon Staff go after their content on those discord servers. If we went the discord server route, it'd have to be completely disassociated from Patreon.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 09:37:11 +0000 UTCWe'd certainly like to keep the hoops to a minimum where we can - we're looking in to our options to see what may be the best way to proceed forward.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 09:35:37 +0000 UTCIt's definitely an option on the table.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 09:32:40 +0000 UTCIt certainly does. Ironic.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 09:32:17 +0000 UTCThey sure have!
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 09:31:10 +0000 UTCThanks for the suggestion of Subscribestar. We're definitely looking at it as an option for future projects that don't fall under Patreon's guidelines. Unfortunately it doesn't support Paypal, but we'll see what happens!
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 09:30:46 +0000 UTCSeems to be a trend!
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 09:28:26 +0000 UTCYes it does. We'll figure it out, though, one way or the other.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 09:28:05 +0000 UTCWe've actually heard of Patreon users getting in to trouble for Patreon-related Discord servers, and being told they're responsible for all of the content on it that violates the guidelines. If we did ever go the Discord route it'd have to have no association with Patreon whatsoever. Definitely something we'll consider and think over.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 09:27:39 +0000 UTCI'm so sorry to hear this, Backlash. I've heard of others having repeat visits from the Trust and Safety Team even after complying with their guidelines, so it makes me a little nervous, but we'll have to take it as it comes. It's definitely frustrating trying to get a real response to your questions from these guys. Thanks so much for the support <3. Kindle and Thistle are up next, so I hope you'll enjoy that one =)!
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 09:24:16 +0000 UTCI'm also really thankful this happened near the end of the project. It would have been devastating having it happen during some of the earlier scenes, so we consider ourselves very fortunate on that front. Our next project, according to Patreon, falls under their rules and guidelines as they've been interpreted by the Trust and Safety Team, so I'm hoping we won't hear from them again. We are thinking about other sites, though, for future projects that are more accepting of content and context where Patreon isn't.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:50:36 +0000 UTCI've heard that any discord servers tied to a Patreon are monitored and regulated as well. If we did go with a Discord server, it'd have to be independent of the Patreon itself. We'll certainly put some thought in to that.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:47:41 +0000 UTCIt seems like most companies seem to survive the porn-pocalypse, but Tumblr was one of the few ones that didn't. If I recall they ended up losing a lot of money. I'm not sure if Patreon's following the same path or not, but I guess time will tell.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:46:14 +0000 UTCAn open alternative would be fantastic. Currently Subscribestar is looking to be the most popular alternative at the moment, but we're keeping our ears open for others.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:43:32 +0000 UTCThanks so much for the kind words. It is really unfortunate they don't consider any of the context of the story, as it says in their ToS they're supposed to. When asking the Trust and Safety Team member if context mattered or not, to get a clear answer on this, we basically got no answer at all in response. It's a little frustrating reading their ToS and being told context matters, and given specific examples of that context (Game of Thrones and Lolita), and then having those examples blatantly ignored. Hopefully, though, we're within their guidelines now.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:42:41 +0000 UTCIt is rather invasive and worrisome.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:39:19 +0000 UTCIt's rather unfortunate. We would too, if it existed. Subscribestar is more lenient in their content allowances, but were banned by Paypal unfortunately.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:38:45 +0000 UTCWhile I'm not sure Loli specifically is allowed under their ToS, they do cite the novel Lolita as being acceptable because of the context of the book. I think this is just a load of hot air, though, as we asked specifically if context mattered (as it says it does in their ToS), but it clearly does not in the slightest.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:37:45 +0000 UTCThat definitely seems to be a recurring them with a lot of payment type platforms. If I recall, one of the big payment processors now started out with porn, but I can't remember if it was Stripe, Square, Paypal or some other one. To say the least, they definitely went the route of no longer needing the weirdos.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:24:11 +0000 UTCPretty vexing - I just wish the information we got from different Trust and Safety Team members didn't conflict with one another. Hopefully, though, this will be the last we'll hear from them now that they've communicated their new interpretation of the guidelines.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:01:32 +0000 UTCThanks wugfish! I think our next project is within the guidelines they've given us this time, so we're hoping this is the last we'll hear from the Trust and Safety Team.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 08:00:18 +0000 UTCHaha, yeah... that's how we felt too.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 07:59:17 +0000 UTCWill do~ Much appreciated.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 07:58:57 +0000 UTCI've heard some stories about Twitter being next, but I haven't looked in to it.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 07:58:35 +0000 UTCIt certainly feels that way. I'm hoping this is the last we'll hear from them, though *fingers crossed*
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 07:58:00 +0000 UTCI keep thinking I've heard all of the horror stories, but I hadn't heard of that one. It seems very strict to punish someone for an off-screen situation. I'd be interested to learn more about that one. It really is a shame, but like you said the financial masters in the banks and credit card companies seem to be calling the shots - I just wish Patreon had a clear set of guidelines they'd stick to. Thanks for the well wishes, I know we'll work something out =)!
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 07:57:21 +0000 UTCThanks Draco18s; You gotta do what you gotta do. We completely understand.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 07:53:51 +0000 UTCAs long as one of them isn't feral, you'll probably be okay. I'll cross my fingers for you.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 07:53:13 +0000 UTCPretty lame, but we'll do what we can to make it work.
Frisky Ferals
2019-12-28 07:52:07 +0000 UTCThe best method i've seen so far is make a discord server and have the patron roles assigned to the server with visibility of channels based on patron levels. I know a few creators who have done this and it works wonders.
Sherigala
2019-12-26 20:39:45 +0000 UTCCould you just have 'search engine of choice' instructions on patreon and continue hosting the stuff in the same place? Existing patrons should already know where to go and new ones can just bookmark it afterwards. I would prefer that you don't add more hoops to get to the content like lots of other artists have done. Messing around with discord, private messages, zips and passwords, all shit people don't want to mess around with.
2019-12-26 04:13:50 +0000 UTCin the worst-case, you can just set up a mailing list
Matthias
2019-12-23 15:01:45 +0000 UTCOn the plus side this plays bizarrely well into the themes of the comic and people refusing to accept their relationship...
2019-12-23 04:08:17 +0000 UTCpatreons done it again!
everfreerat
2019-12-22 16:45:48 +0000 UTCI could understand the fact that you can't post said stuff here directly but even not link you somewhere else is pretty bs in my opinion. Even more sad is that we all here pay for it. An alternative would be Subscribestar but I don't know if it supports Paypal and Primeleap, but there they are a little more "open minded" regarding the content you can post there.
QuantumAge
2019-12-22 13:54:14 +0000 UTCyeah paetron is going the tumbler way it seems
Nolife05
2019-12-22 12:58:29 +0000 UTCWow that...really sucks... :(
Demitri Deharo
2019-12-22 05:16:04 +0000 UTCWith the way patreon is being so vague it is clearly hard to grasp what is and isn't okay. I kinda agree with what Rodrigo suggests though. What is the $5 tier gave access to a patreon only discord, and there just -happens- to be a server there where recent NHNF pages are posted. Though I guess it'd only be a matter of time before they consider that a violation as well. But it is an alternative. Discord is free and seemingly has little problem with people or what they post so long as it ain't gore or child porn.
Rothar
2019-12-21 21:29:57 +0000 UTCyup! i have been having this problem with them ever since I got a patreon. they won't even REPLY to my emails, asking for more specifics. Sorry to see it hit you too, Sef. I WILL STILL SUPPORT YOU! i've been supporting you since the kindle comics.
DEAD ACCOUNT(no activity)
2019-12-21 19:57:03 +0000 UTCIt's absolutely ridiculous, these regulations and wishy-washy policies. If nothing else, at leas this happened now, near the very end of this GARGANTUAN project and not at the beginning(or worse, at the juicy stuff). I honestly don't know what kind of work-around for a work-around you'll be able to do, but I will stay if I can.
GreenDreamer
2019-12-21 19:11:32 +0000 UTCWhat about a discord server?
ShinobiSparrow
2019-12-21 19:00:58 +0000 UTCPatreon is slowly committing suicide. Oh well, I suppose everyone's allowed to commit a Tumblr if they see fit to do so.
Dibs Razell
2019-12-21 17:13:53 +0000 UTCPatreon is sucking way more then usual. We need an alternative...
ShinobiSparrow
2019-12-21 16:05:15 +0000 UTCI hope you get your Christmas miracle and they change their minds on this. Ignoring the medium being used, NHNF has clever and thoughtful writing, an amazing message about being true to yourself and loving who you want, and does all this without being crude (I'm not sure I've seen any curse words in your work yet). It's a shame Patreon has chosen to ignore all of this and focus on the sentient wolf and bird creatures' intimate relationship only.
Ravey Davey
2019-12-21 15:40:44 +0000 UTCSadly aswell I hate the fact they want to have access to the other sites where things are posted too
antonio kontos
2019-12-21 15:29:36 +0000 UTCPatreon gets worse each year. If I would know a better alternative that allows what Patreon prohibits and accepts PayPal too, I would gladly switch. Patreon sucks.
Zosimos Wreden
2019-12-21 14:50:45 +0000 UTCAnimals fucking= NOT OK Loli/Shota = oh yeah that’s all good (Patreon seriously says this ok check out the tos)
antonio kontos
2019-12-21 13:57:31 +0000 UTCOh and to let you know Discord is one way to do said thing up above. Just use PMs.
Ryproar
2019-12-21 13:36:40 +0000 UTCOkay this makes 9 patreon pages attacked recently. I have been noticing that they attacking furries in general lately. 3 of the guys I patronize don't even do adult stuff but they said it was "not in the guidelines". They do not realize that they are not only fucking over the artists but now the patrons themselves. I will just say it here as well. SUBSCRIBESTAR!!!!!!! I am tired of this BS witch hunt they are doing. What next? Targeting comics for trigger words? I am glad that they are losing to substar, and I hope they do down hard. We paid for the art now they just take it away. Oh well I guess substar will get even more people now.
Ryproar
2019-12-21 13:34:15 +0000 UTCThat is absolute garbage. It's getting really tiring how these sites start out claiming to support all creators, and then yank the rug out from under them without warning after they've been successful for a few years off the backs of said creators, suddenly deciding they "no longer need the weirdos".
OssuaryPariah
2019-12-21 11:23:26 +0000 UTCThank you for the communication, and I concur that Patreon is being vexingly foolish in this.
Moriar
2019-12-21 11:01:27 +0000 UTCNot cool of patreon to do this. Well, do let us know what comes next as you figure it out. Wishing you all the luck, and hoping it won't be needed!
wugfish
2019-12-21 08:29:21 +0000 UTC*face palm* Whadafuq...
David Ewell
2019-12-21 07:21:29 +0000 UTCYou know I have your back on whatever. If there's anything I can do to help just give me a nudge.
PrimeLeap
2019-12-21 07:20:23 +0000 UTCFirst tumblr, now Patreon! What next! Twitter. Bruh what are these dweebs up to...
Chloop
2019-12-21 07:19:16 +0000 UTCThis sucks!! Sorry this happened to you...it seems like they are just making up rules as they go along...
Vethrfolnir
2019-12-21 07:15:00 +0000 UTCI am already very sick of Patreon’s censorship. I’m sick of one financial institution having the power to censor literally a world of art. It’s not just you. Another account got suspended a year or two ago, for having a human and an anthro tiger fooling around. And it was off-panel—it wasn’t even shown. The rules are indeed arbitrary, and you will never get a straight answer because the rules will always be whatever a particular cowed Patreon staffer wants them to be or thinks their parochial financial masters require the rules to be. I hope you can find a working solution. I for one really want to see what stonefaced-mom has to say about the relationship.
VGR
2019-12-21 06:57:32 +0000 UTCInconsistently applied rules is why I canceled all of my patreon pledges (except you guys). Guess its time to kill that off too (not *your* fault, of course).
Draco18s
2019-12-21 06:57:28 +0000 UTC*dumps mug and grabs a full bottle of hard alcohol* I fear for my Snake x Hamster OCs...
Viro Veteruscy
2019-12-21 06:57:15 +0000 UTCThat's lame as hell.
Kracker
2019-12-21 06:28:31 +0000 UTC
