Japanese Phonetics Episode 66—now with native recordings!
Added 2019-07-29 04:36:33 +0000 UTCBibliography
Japanese Phonetics Index Page
Good afternoon Patrons! The sixty-sixth episode of Japanese Phonetics has now been updated with high-quality, native recordings!
In this lesson we look at pitch accent in numbers greater than ten. Specifically, we cover a rule for eleven through nineteen, outright memorize the intervals of ten and a hundred, and learn an essential rule for the intervals of a thousand and ten thousand.
As always, if you have any questions or concerns with regards to this lesson, please don't hesitate to leave a comment below. Thank you very much for your continued support, and good luck with your Japanese studies!
Best from Beppu,
Dōgen
Comments
Hi, Augusta. JP here. You hit on an important point at the end of your comment; while it can be important to know the rules, it is easy to get yourself so tangled up in trying to apply the rules that it hinders your ability to communicate. I had a Japanese teacher who said the same thing with verb conjugations—in the early days when my classmates and I were struggling with conjugating verbs, our teacher told us we need to get past thinking about the rules and get to a point where we can 'feel' them, or as you put it, get to where we are "intuitively knowing" the verb forms. The same more than likely applies to reciting numbers, getting yourself to a point where you intuitively feel what is right. One last point: Numbers can be quite complicated and variable, which is why Dōgen included the disclaimer at the start of each numbers-related lesson. Hope this helps, and best of luck in your studies!
Dogen
2024-06-03 09:30:30 +0000 UTCHi Dōgen. What are your thoughts on just reciting numbers in order to memorize their pitch accents? Like the way we learned numbers as kids in English. Obviously there are too many numbers to count them all, but one could use the information in these lessons to select a range of numbers from each set of numbers with distinct pitch accent patterns and go from there. It seems like that would help with intuitively knowing the numbers, versus consciously trying to apply all these rules
Augusta Wind
2024-05-20 05:17:43 +0000 UTCHi, Marek. JP here, Dōgen's business partner. I'm helping manage the messages here on Patreon. Check out the updated version of this lesson with native recordings. It should be live now. These recordings should make it easier to hear what is going on with きゅう and similar sounds. Hope this helps! — JP
Dogen
2022-10-07 06:39:59 +0000 UTCHi Dōgen can you pls elaborate a bit on what happens when there is ( as in number 10 ) きゅう.. ofc first char, kyu is one mora, letter 'u' is second mora, and... pitch raises on 2nd mora, as .. it is main rule, that pitch of 1st and 2nd moras is ALWAYS different. now... it's about the 'u" sound in this. there is part of 'u' sound already in 'kyu' syllable, and then another 'u' to prolong it. so is it kyu-u? and pitch raises between the 2 distinct 'u's? or how is it. when listening to recordings, not even in this video I can't hear it exactly. would be glad for short explanation. どうもうありがとうございます
Marek Jasovsky
2022-09-30 16:10:32 +0000 UTCHmmm, not sure what might be going on with this—it may be a matter of needing to hear the words in context, rather than just in isolation, though I'm not sure. Hopefully that would help, however!
Dogen
2020-10-23 06:11:39 +0000 UTCDamn it! No matter how I try words like 13 and 30 sound the same to me. I tried to drill these numbers ('teens' vs 'tens'), I had even wrote a small programm to drill them... no success. It's just like my brain doesn't see any difference between さんじゅう and じゅうさん. T_T
Strange Guy
2020-10-22 17:40:49 +0000 UTCHi Akika! Do you mind giving me a specific example? Thank you for the question!
Dogen
2019-08-17 07:19:00 +0000 UTCHi! Is 一番 always pronounced as nakadaka (LHLL), or does it become heiban when it modifies words? Thanks!
Akiva Weinberger
2019-08-16 20:25:32 +0000 UTCHi Tim! I pronounce it as 'gogo'. 'Gongo' is an example of 鼻濁音, which I talk about in lesson 41: https://www.patreon.com/posts/18574535
Dogen
2019-08-15 05:22:46 +0000 UTCHey Dogen, how do you pronounce ごご? On forvo some people say it like "gongo" but without the n sound, so the second g doesn't have as much kick to it. How do you make that sound?
Tim McCarthy
2019-08-14 14:35:35 +0000 UTCHey Tim! No worries. In my experience I've found that numbers are typically pronounced as 中高 sets, as in: 123-4567-8900 LHL-LHHL-LHHL Each set is usually pronounced high through the second to last number, as seen above. Hope this helps!
Dogen
2019-08-14 02:50:16 +0000 UTCYes, that’s the implication, though it’s usually not when these are followed by other numbers, but when a counter attaches that the pitch changes. I talk about this in more detail in the next two lessons. The next lesson in particular will cover a rule for the complex number compounds you mentioned!
Dogen
2019-08-14 01:37:48 +0000 UTCHey Dogen. What pitch accent pattern should I use when reading a phone number? In the Genki textbook it kinda sounds like you just go high low high low and の is always low. Thanks. Edit: Now I'm thinking it's 尾高, but the last set of numbers is 中高. Edit2: After listening a bunch more, it doesn't sound like that's it. Still confused lol.
Tim McCarthy
2019-08-14 00:20:25 +0000 UTCYou say in the video that if a standard number precedes precedes "just" ～せん or "just" ～まん, then the downstep occurs on the second to last mora. Does that mean there are different rules if the number isn't a clean thousand/ten thousand? Ex. 1,239, 45,392, etc.
thebasedpisces
2019-08-13 21:21:50 +0000 UTCHi Walt! く is 頭高, and じゅうく is 頭高, though I recommend sticking with じゅうきゅう. I will be explaining complex number compounds (your other question) in the next lesson! Cheers!
Dogen
2019-08-11 05:30:48 +0000 UTCGoing back one lesson, what is the pitch for the alternative pronuciation く for 九? And building on that, what happens in this lesson with the pronunciation じゅうく for 十九? Finally, will your next lesson cover the intervening numbers 21, ..., 29, 31, ..., 39, ...? Or is that something simple you can explain in your answer to this query?
Walt Poor
2019-08-08 17:41:25 +0000 UTCNo worries Erich!
Dogen
2019-07-29 23:37:36 +0000 UTCThanks Dogen :P
Erich Doclaf
2019-07-29 20:26:43 +0000 UTCNo worries! Will do my best!
Dogen
2019-07-29 08:32:16 +0000 UTCMy pleasure Sam!
Dogen
2019-07-29 08:31:57 +0000 UTCThanks Dogen!
Sam Ashton
2019-07-29 06:45:08 +0000 UTCThanks for the quick response! I'd love to see a future lesson on that one in the future if you can find more info on them sometime.
StaySkeptic Skeptic
2019-07-29 06:44:44 +0000 UTCHi Skeptic! This actually isn't something that I've studied before, so I'm unable to answer in any detail, but I have noticed that many of the 四字熟語 that I use in conversation are 平板 or 中高, and this leads me to assume that many other words in this category are as well. Apologies for not being able to answer this in more detail at the moment—would like to try covering this in a future lesson! Cheers!
Dogen
2019-07-29 06:43:14 +0000 UTCHey dogen, I'm rewatching the early vids as I noticed I still lack phonetic awareness to learn from listening even after a year of knowing about it, so I still don't know if you've already covered this, but do you know about the pitch accent for the chinese idom style yojijukugo?
StaySkeptic Skeptic
2019-07-29 06:04:05 +0000 UTC
