Japanese Phonetics Episode 47—LIVE (now with native recordings)!
Added 2018-08-16 13:00:13 +0000 UTCBibliography
Japanese Phonetics Index Page
Good evening Patrons! The forty-seventh episode of Japanese Phonetics is live and updated with native recordings! In this lesson we look at the standard 'n' sounds, and talk about why they should be thought of as separate from ん, the 撥音 (はつおん).
As always, if you have any questions or concerns with regards to this lesson, please don't hesitate to leave a comment below. Thank you very much for your continued support, and good luck with your Japanese studies!
Best from Beppu,
Dōgen
Comments
Hi Michael! Yes, it's my understanding that what you're saying is true. However, the vowel in に is often dropped in everyday speech when the following sound is also a standard に. For example, 綺麗になる is often actually said as 綺麗んなる. I believe I talk more about this in lesson 56, which can be accessed here: https://www.patreon.com/posts/japanese-episode-24301563 Cheers!
Dogen
2020-10-25 01:13:53 +0000 UTCThanks Dogen! This was a mind blowing lesson for me. I've noticed the majority of the differences in Japanese pronunciation from English pronunciation, but に blew my mind. Quick question, would the に as a particle be pronounced the same as in words like 睨む, ２個, 西, 兄, etc)?
Sonic Swain
2020-10-24 22:15:58 +0000 UTCHi Aryeh. Here is a small sample from the 2009 book 音声を教える (translated by me). In the normal n sound, the tip of the tongue touches the back of the upper front teeth and the alveolar ridge, but in the に sound, the tip of the tongue goes down behind the lower front teeth, with the forward part of the upper tongue raised and spread across the palate just behind the alveolar ridge. Please note that while I agree with this description, not all linguists do, as noted in the video. Cheers!
Dogen
2020-01-12 04:49:43 +0000 UTCHi Dogen, As always thanks for producing such great content. I had a quick question about the pronunciation of に: So your tongue should be touching the roof of your mouth (since it's palatal of course) but I wasn't clear exactly what part of the tongue should be touching. Should it be kind of the middle section of your tongue touching the roof of your mouth like in し (with the tip of your tongue near your lower front teeth), or should it be more of the tip of your tongue touching the roof of your mouth? Thanks!
Aryeh
2020-01-12 03:11:20 +0000 UTCHi Dawson! Yes, there is indeed a bit of speaker variation in terms of word ending 'ん', but I still strongly recommend following the advice in this video, as though some speakers will pronounce some words differently, the points in this video should never be interpreted as incorrect. Cheers!
Dogen
2019-12-13 00:57:25 +0000 UTCHi Dogen, Just have a quick question concerning ん at the end of words. Is there a variation in the degree of nasalization of ん？For example in かばん, it almost sounds like kabang, but in かんたん, sometimes it doesnt even sound like the last ん is being nasalized at all. These two seemed like the most extreme cases, but I also listened to Strawberrybrown on Forvo for a few of these words and she seems fairly consistent with the nasalization, so i'm not sure. And of course thank you for the video, I learned a lot!
Dawson Chen
2019-12-11 05:58:06 +0000 UTCA native speaker graciously pointed it out for me!
Dogen
2018-08-26 00:12:18 +0000 UTCVery interesting. How did you discover the habit of palatalizing の? Through self study, or did someone point it out?
Tom
2018-08-25 14:29:01 +0000 UTCHi Skabahk! No worries! I actually talk about this issue specifically in lesson 38! ^^ Do you mind watching this lesson first then getting back to me?
Dogen
2018-08-25 00:52:59 +0000 UTCI'm guessing that you are planning on covering this or already have and I forgot XD but during my last few months of active listening, I've heard this word so many times and I could never seem to even look it up to figure out what it means. I finally asked someone who told me what I'm hearing, and it turns out that it's とりあえず and not とりあいず, so my problem was very clear lol, my ear has a really hard time distinguishing あい from あえ. Anyway, not sure exactly where I was going with this, but wanted to bring it up and ask your thoughts. edit: sorry this has nothing to do with 'n' sounds lol
skabahk
2018-08-24 12:53:38 +0000 UTCHi Cazza! It is indeed a reoccurring theme, as we also saw with the か sounds and さ sounds—we'll see it even more in the future though, including the next lesson. I'll be covering 「ん」towards the end of the pronunciation sub-series, so in probably six or seven more lessons; apologies for the wait! Please let me know if you have any other questions or concerns! ^^
Dogen
2018-08-21 08:12:34 +0000 UTCMy pleasure! Thanks for watching, Nathan!
Dogen
2018-08-21 08:10:33 +0000 UTCWhoa! I had no idea that に was pronounced differently! Super helpful. As always, thanks Dogen!
Nathan Vegdahl
2018-08-20 22:23:38 +0000 UTCHi Dogen! Great video as always. I had already been doing at least some of my [n] sounds in the [t]/[d] position but I was never sure exactly how I should be doing them so it's nice to know for certain now. I was pretty surprised that the い row was different. Is that going to be a recurring theme? Also, when are you planning on covering [ん]? I'm pretty sure I'm pronouncing it wrong somehow, particularly at the end of words.
Cazza
2018-08-20 07:21:25 +0000 UTCHi Connor. I had this same issue for a very long time—wasn't until study abroad that I began to notice that the Japanese [t] is more forward than the English [t]! I've never really thought about speed when it comes to し, but I have found that leaving the lips relaxed, or even spreading them to the side a bit as I mentioned, helps a lot. Thanks again for the comment—please let me know if you ever have any more questions or concerns!
Dogen
2018-08-16 23:07:48 +0000 UTCHi Sascha. I use a program called Affinity Designer to create the images. I believe it's available on both Mac and PC. Incidentally, if you're only teaching German I'd be more than happy to send you all the files I've created so far (originals and .pngs)—please let me know if you're interested!
Dogen
2018-08-16 23:05:51 +0000 UTCHey, I have a somewhat tangential question: What do you use to generate the mouth crossection images? They look very nice and I am interested in using images like these myself for teaching German pronunciation to learners, but I cannot find a good collection online.
Sascha Baer
2018-08-16 21:03:46 +0000 UTCVery helpful. I found that I have definitely been pronouncing my n's and t's the English way this whole time. Also, the first time I watched the し video I was kind of confused, but after practicing a lot I have been able to hear a major difference. I've noticed that when trying to pronounce して or した correctly, it requires quite a fast movement of the tip of the tongue from below the bottom teeth to the top teeth. Is that correct or do you have any advice on transitioning correctly with those sounds?
Connor Lentz
2018-08-16 18:14:37 +0000 UTC
