POD 116: Day 1 dispatch from DEA HQ
Added 2024-11-13 02:25:00 +0000 UTCReupload that sounds better but the original day 1 dispatch post is now missing.
"In this extemporaneous field dispatch I report from DEA HQ in Arlington Virginia on the first day of a ten day hearing that will determine the future fate of the 5-HT2A agonist research chemicals DOI and DOC. I hope to release these each day. The major lesson from day one is that the DEA is reading your reddit posts."
Comments
Dr carbonara
Madelpine
2025-03-27 21:05:21 +0000 UTCA large portion of the reason they got elected was them tying in fentanyl deaths to their racist border policies. Fat chance on that.
BoyzNThaWoodz
2025-03-02 22:47:40 +0000 UTCAlso it would be AMAZING if you would offer some Patreons the opportunity to attend some events with you. Not looking for expenses covered, just a reason for me to attend & meet you.
Kevin Bauer
2024-12-16 02:46:17 +0000 UTCLMFAO between Nancy Reagan’s yacht, to the stress of carrying international luggage into the DEA.
Kevin Bauer
2024-12-16 02:39:44 +0000 UTCSame, I was prescribed Propranolol for anxiety despite it being a blood pressure medicine, I’ve never found it stimulating in the slightest. Every time it’s only ever calmed me
JMill
2024-11-25 14:56:26 +0000 UTCI thought DOM was OK at very low doses, but I found 5mg to be tense, non-visual, and I had difficulty communicating with other people. I vastly prefer 2C-D and ariadne
Hamilton Morris
2024-11-24 04:36:19 +0000 UTCWhat’s with the DOM hate? I prefer it over most psychs
Devin
2024-11-24 02:45:17 +0000 UTCSo are you saying the DEA is using reddit posts as evidence in court or just as internal guidance on their policy direction? Either way, this is alarming. Not only is this a skewed sampling, but there’s no control for other variables or truthfulness or even that these are real people and not bots. I have to say that every once in a while I pull up reddit, and the quality of discussions there have taken an absolute nosedive. Not to mention it’s an idealogical echo chamber. So the regulation on future scientific study is being influenced by the dumbest 14 year olds among us… Glad you’re there as a counterbalance Hamilton! 🫡
Dasloops
2024-11-21 15:18:39 +0000 UTCLicit drugs don’t come in powder? What about BC Headache powder? Goodys headache powder? They come in a folded wax paper from the pharmacy. Even without example, these arguments are ludicrous!
Brady
2024-11-20 13:24:02 +0000 UTCI resubscribed to the patreon. This is too fascinating to not absorb
Mitchell Hamilton
2024-11-19 18:41:50 +0000 UTCClippings or the entire nails
Shawhin Layeghi
2024-11-18 22:36:28 +0000 UTCSteve just wanna say I think I speak for the whole community that it is really great to see you in the comments and we really appreciate your input. Your insights are invaluable and your personality is delightful. Thank you for your participation. Sending you lots of love.
Ericaceous
2024-11-18 20:56:02 +0000 UTCthere needs to be a pulitzer headed your way
Rod Paulsen
2024-11-18 18:11:29 +0000 UTCYes
Michael Cunningham
2024-11-18 12:47:29 +0000 UTCJust by singing the transcript of this saga and you get a Broadway's show
Pronoia
2024-11-18 10:26:41 +0000 UTCHe should have asked throughout every year. How many people have died from DOI. And then again for DOC.
Tabor Whitehead
2024-11-18 08:11:13 +0000 UTCIf the (Non-Governmental Advisory) Department of Reddit or even RFK JR actually manages to do anything to nerf the FDA or DEA, I'd eat my toenails on camera
Dandelion
2024-11-18 07:54:18 +0000 UTCSo disgusting.
Tabor Whitehead
2024-11-18 06:28:02 +0000 UTCI wouldn’t support that stuff…
Tabor Whitehead
2024-11-18 06:27:42 +0000 UTCReminds me of Nazi’s.
Tabor Whitehead
2024-11-18 06:27:09 +0000 UTCDon’t forget self medication or treating with psychedelics is a very real thing.
Tabor Whitehead
2024-11-18 06:24:28 +0000 UTCI would argue against your optimism.
Tabor Whitehead
2024-11-18 06:20:25 +0000 UTC🙄
Tabor Whitehead
2024-11-18 06:19:40 +0000 UTC4C-B etc are tested compounds. There is a Hyperlab thread, also mentioned in the podcast with Cunningham. They seem interesting and are active psychedelics more so than 4C-D. 4C-DMA related by miamiechin.
p4nix
2024-11-17 21:22:27 +0000 UTCI agree that’s closer to what I wanted to say - and yes, if an analytical chemist were analyzing an unknown compound and it isn’t a controlled substance, I’d imagine they’d have to figure out exactly what substance it was in order to verify that it’s not in fact a controlled substance… following her logic how were they able to detect say, MDMA, before it was scheduled?
Cristobal Moreno
2024-11-17 19:55:55 +0000 UTCThat is not what Carbonaro was suggesting, though that would make sense as an argument if there were internal consistency in the DEA's enforcement. If LE can't seize a compound until it is scheduled then there would be no DOI/DOC seizures at all, which is not the case. Her argument was closer to saying that analytical chemists wouldn't know to look for the compound until it was a controlled substance, which is also false.
Hamilton Morris
2024-11-17 19:02:25 +0000 UTCI think that Carbonaro’s logic behind her claim that the number of seizures would go up after scheduling is that many people currently use it but the DEA can’t prosecute/investigate them bc it’s not scheduled… once it is scheduled they’ll be able to go in and make the seizures. I don’t agree with it but that’s the only explanation behind her logic that makes sense if it were true.
Cristobal Moreno
2024-11-17 15:50:01 +0000 UTCI despise Elon Musk, but maybe having a billionaire drug user is good for drug policy reform, maybe..? I don't think that a freakish right wing administration is going to do much good in way of drug policy, sadly
hollic
2024-11-16 20:50:18 +0000 UTCThank you so much for shedding a light on exactly how nonsensical this whole process is. Hopefully the judge will have eaten recently when he makes his decision!
Cameron Mitchell
2024-11-16 02:50:06 +0000 UTCloving these updates
Ruairi Murphy
2024-11-15 14:35:06 +0000 UTCSome must be - Í remember seeing a scheduling hearing on public TV back in the 70s, but for the life of me I can't remember what they were scheduling!
Steven
2024-11-15 06:15:07 +0000 UTCI wonder if the DOGE might consider eliminating the DEA.
Adam Perkins
2024-11-15 06:14:44 +0000 UTCThat's the point, drug substitution is a flawed method for assessing abuse liability.
Hamilton Morris
2024-11-15 06:02:53 +0000 UTCPropranolol substitution for cocaine? Um... What? Is this just more DEA insanity? I've been on propranolol for about a decade now and I can't ever recall any stimulation from it, in fact I find it quite calming.
Sponiebr
2024-11-15 05:47:21 +0000 UTCAlso many of these uncontrolled compounds are distributed as powders to forestall prosecution under the federal analogue act because encapsulation would be used as evidence that they are intended for ingestion. The government creates an environment where the substance must be distributed as a powder to prevent charges of abuse and then takes the opposing side to say that it not being prepared for ingestion is evidence of abuse.
Hamilton Morris
2024-11-15 05:02:45 +0000 UTCHamilton, just wanted to throw out there: I really liked when you on Rogan last, talking about de-stigmatization of ketamine that has come with increased medicalization. You said something like "...if you went back even 10 years and told a doctor 'I've been taking ketamine and it's really been helping me feel less depressed', that doctor would be likely to say 'well this is really concerning. I mean, you can't just be going around SNORTING DRUGS!?" Haha. And oh look, they went and made an intranasal ketamine spray! You don't say...
Peter Thomas
2024-11-15 04:50:50 +0000 UTCOnly way to find out is to try it, and if someone had a lab it's easy enough, and not a controlled substance nor is the precursor 2,5-dimethoxy-a-ethylphenylisopropylamine. Shoulda done that years ago, darn it! That goes for the Aleph series too...
Steven
2024-11-15 04:40:55 +0000 UTCOMG re: the powder issue. The ultimate reason for their capsule carve-out is the same thing that makes substances of all kinds safer - measured unit dosing! The issue is not powder, but rather that the user cannot know the concentration and therefore unit dose of an unregulated powder. Speaking of "diversion", that's what most of the DEA's arguments are. Gaslighting, torturous diversions from the truth. Sometimes I wonder if they deliberately do this, or are they just as lost in the matrix of shit drug policy as anyone else who doesn't have their head deep into this space and cannot see how most of the "dangers of drugs" they feel so obliged to warn us about are actually of their own making?
Peter Thomas
2024-11-15 04:29:51 +0000 UTCThank you kindly for keeping on them about this Hamilton - they're not the only phenethylamines that shouldn't be scheduled, but they're in the current gun sight so to speak.... NB: I wonder how close to similar utility the 4-trifluoromerhylthio analog would be? Also, there's a whole new section of the CSA dealing with diversion of controlled substances now - with the agregate production quotas, there's a numerical estimate of certain substance diversions, seems to be a new fad. ;^[}. B NB: gosh, maybe I should just post my opinions on Reddit instead of writing comments to the Attorney General! They would include the fact that DOI isn't particularly pleasant..
Steven
2024-11-15 04:28:51 +0000 UTCOf course "any use is abuse", sneers the DEA. Well I guess since nicotine and alcohol are generally deemed to have no medical value / treatment indications, then by definition ALL use of these substances is "abuse" as well? And what is the scheduling classification of these drugs? The real idea behind the concept of drug "abuse" is this: By making autonomous decisions around substance use, we are somehow pissing on the dignity of the medical profession and the rule of law. For me, the concept of drug abuse generally needs to be crumpled up and laughed into the wastebasket of history, right where it belongs!
Peter Thomas
2024-11-15 04:18:32 +0000 UTCHamilton, some journalism on psychedlic-related hospitalizations in Canada, posted yesterday: https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/study-finds-concerning-link-between-hospital-visits-for-psychedelic-use-and-schizophrenia The article acknowledges that mere correlation rather than causation is identified. But my take to put the elevated 4% schizophrenia risk in perspective: The totality of people who take psychedelics AND who are subsequently hospitalized is likely very small, perhaps less than 1%. Further, the portion of the total population who ever take a psychedelic, even once, is also likely a wide minority. Even Today. So for the vast majority of people who ever take a psychedelic AND who are hospitalized AND who subsequently develop schizophrenia or any other psychotic-type mental disorder... Is it possible that their disorder was simply latent and exacerbated / accelerated by their exposure to a stressor in the form of a drug?
Peter Thomas
2024-11-15 03:46:23 +0000 UTC"Don't tell me how the universe is all turned, when ya' find out how he gets paid, all-right!"
Peter Thomas
2024-11-15 03:05:53 +0000 UTCYea it can be surprisimg whem you realize how incompotent people in power really are.
Justin F
2024-11-15 00:20:42 +0000 UTCI cheered in the lab when you recounted how they read out of the years
Finn O'Donoghue
2024-11-14 23:48:15 +0000 UTCUgh. This explains so much about our current drug policies. Thanks for this amazing reporting Hamilton.
Hank
2024-11-14 22:34:14 +0000 UTCThere's no shortage on eBay! I suspect most are reproductions.
CSN
2024-11-14 21:48:37 +0000 UTCOMG I want it so bad.
Goopy
2024-11-14 18:38:28 +0000 UTCAre these hearings public?
Ryan Campbell
2024-11-14 17:15:25 +0000 UTCvery interesting, thanks for doing this series. Sad to hear that there are obvious biases towards any kind of psychedelics (but not really surprising) and the average DEA guy just wants it all banned no matter how good it good be for patients. Good to hear that they treat you well there. However I would not trust them, they smile at you while they dig through your suitcase behind your back ;)
Simon
2024-11-14 15:40:48 +0000 UTCreupload?
Billy
2024-11-14 15:37:02 +0000 UTCYou should have told the DEA guard you have a drinking problem.
jacob c
2024-11-14 14:43:53 +0000 UTCYou're fucking hilarious
Shawhin Layeghi
2024-11-14 13:01:08 +0000 UTCReddit post about someone treating their rheumatoid arthritis with DOI , not their mom tho so may be a different post https://www.reddit.com/r/PsychedelicTherapy/s/QAstzZ1Gyb I was going to reply to Mike Cunningham’s comment and ask if he would expect bromo-Ariadne, or any of the halogenated Ariadnes to be qualitatively worth it, as it could come from a potentially cheaper benzaldehyde (maybe he’ll see this hehe)
taylor gautreaux
2024-11-14 10:35:37 +0000 UTCSo they admit the chemists are magical wizards... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/KPoAAOSwI25jIe12/s-l1600.jpg https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/LB4AAOSwtmhl5gig/s-l500.png
CSN
2024-11-14 09:47:05 +0000 UTCThe one in question: https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/~NMAAOxy3NBScy7G/s-l640.jpg
CSN
2024-11-14 09:23:54 +0000 UTCHad to look up the origin of that amazing patch in the background of your Instagram story. Found this interesting article, though it doesn't have a full photo of that specific patch: https://www.borderlandbeat.com/2016/10/the-oddly-beautiful-and-sometimes.html?m=1
CSN
2024-11-14 09:23:25 +0000 UTC
