POD 107: Bryan Hubbard on the Kentucky ibogaine program
Added 2024-07-01 08:43:41 +0000 UTCThe first of two interviews about the Kentucky ibogaine program, this discussion is with the lawyer Bryan Hubbard, the former Chairman and Executive Director of the Kentucky Opioid Abatement Advisory Commission. We discuss the tremendous opposition the program faced for political, pharmaceutical, and social reasons and his efforts to ensure ibogaine is made available to those struggling with opioid use disorder.
https://www.wbryanhubbard.com/
Oppositional reporting in The Kentucky Currier Journal:
Traditional opioid treatments are inadequate, but ibogaine research is an overpriced boondoggle
$42M for psychedelics research is not how Kentucky should be fighting opioid addiction
Ibogaine helped me beat heroin addiction, but I oppose Kentucky funding psychedelic research
Comments
Wow...listening to Bryan so humbly respond at the end made me tear up. He is a wonderful human. So amazing.. I can't wait for summer for this to get on YouTube for others to see. The world needs more of this Bryan Hubbard. Please do another podcast with him if possible. Everyone vote Bryan Hubbard for president of Kentucky please 🥺 All jokes aside, listen to the heart of where he's coming from. And let's all help him in his endeavors to make ibogaine more available as a treatment for those afflicted with opiate addiction. I'm going to say also that Sananga and Voacanga Africana root barks are legal and available and have both helped me in the past come off of a load of big pharma sertraline, amitriptyline, cyclobenzaprine, and rizatriptan when I was dependent upon it. San Pedro and psylocibin mushrooms helped a little too but the sananga root/Voacanga Africana I was using and got a hold of legally online played a big role and it's available for those struggling with opiate and other addictions as a more affordable option in the mean time for those who can't afford going to ibogaine/iboga treatment centers out of the US. Just take care and know there are some cardiac risks and drug interaction risks but they helped me in a time of need and I used them as needed, and didn't even need huge doses to help. They alleviated all my WD symptoms from the heavy doses of drugs I was on and I'm thankful to them to this day.
Creepy Crawley
2025-01-01 11:30:11 +0000 UTCBryan Hubbard is on point in this one and has a lot of heart. I want to see everything available to help people with addiction, including ibogaine, iboga, kratom, salvia divinorum (which I believe has great promise for treating addiction) and any other plant or synthesized drug that has the potential to help. Also we do need housing for all and healthcare for all. For fucks sake, we gotta take care of each other as a human race instead of being duped by corrupt corporate powers and clown actors who are ruling a lot of this game which I don't see it as a game, I see as people's lives.
Creepy Crawley
2025-01-01 11:01:56 +0000 UTCI did not know I'd end up watching a whole Hotel Hell but that was an entertaining episode lol 😂
Creepy Crawley
2025-01-01 09:57:04 +0000 UTCWhat a cool guy! His picture on his website is not what I was expecting but made me smile!
Joseph
2024-10-04 00:58:03 +0000 UTCSo great! I could listen to this guy all day
Donovan
2024-09-25 11:51:17 +0000 UTCThank you Hamilton
Miika Henttonen
2024-08-24 15:46:27 +0000 UTCFantastic interview, I'm all the better for it! Thanks!
Kyle O'Brien
2024-08-06 02:11:49 +0000 UTCAbsolutely amazing episode. I really wish this one was on YouTube so I could share it with friends and family. I’ve never heard someone speak so effectively on this issue. Thanks Hamilton!
Simon
2024-08-03 15:19:35 +0000 UTCYes, opiophobia runs deep and it’s hard for most people to disentangle the compassionate and constructive elements of opioid maintenance therapy from a problem they feel is caused by rampant overprescription of opioids. There is some cognitive dissonance there that’s hard for most people to navigate. My view, if it isn’t obvious already, is that liberal prescription of opioids was not the real problem to begin with and maintenance therapy should be available to anyone who needs it.
Hamilton Morris
2024-07-30 18:55:47 +0000 UTCHe speaks in hyperbole, calling opioid substitution clinics drug dealing operations is silly and dangerous. They are life saving and that kind of simple minded view is why people all over the world don't have the option to avail themselves of that care. There are problems sure but they need more money and more studies in how to effectively care for these patients with whatever medication or therapy has good evidence.
classiceber
2024-07-30 13:41:46 +0000 UTCI sincerely believe the networking and reporting you’re doing will have importance in the healing of many.
km
2024-07-24 14:36:14 +0000 UTCI’m surprised I haven’t heard you mention Ryan Marino on your show prior to this, not at all surprised it has happened now. Not all of his takes suck… but to go all shame-shame about ibogaine therapy is at a minimum very hypocritical of him
myguymikey
2024-07-18 00:34:46 +0000 UTCAbsolute gem of an episode and person, thank you Hamilton for this information. Greetings from Belgium
Bonne Bogaert
2024-07-17 15:46:02 +0000 UTCBrilliant episode and such a captivating voice but I can’t get past the sibilance, would love to de-ess this recording haha
Ethan Jamieson
2024-07-17 12:38:07 +0000 UTChttps://themicrodose.substack.com/p/kentuckys-ibogaine-evangelist
B-Boy Bungus
2024-07-16 00:05:46 +0000 UTCThat's interesting I've never heard it described as school exactly. It makes me think of a actual classroom with everyone together learning at the same time. I had always heard it as he taught a bunch of people which I understood as more of a small crew training, or consultation. Funny how much one word can change perceptions. I've looked for news reports about the early 90s raid on the lab/spawn facility that everyone one agrees happens but I've never been able to find anything. Literally anything. Lots of stories but I cant find a record of it even happening. No one even agrees on the date. Early 90s is the best I can do. Thanks for sharing!
Siwanand Das
2024-07-11 04:34:55 +0000 UTC👊🫡
M
2024-07-10 23:12:21 +0000 UTCI know someone from where I grew up in southern Vermont who lived in southern Oregon who learned to grow mushrooms in some underground mushroom cultivation school Paul Stamets ran in the early 80's. His daughter is actually a mutual friend of Hamilton and I.
Keegan Crocker
2024-07-10 21:59:07 +0000 UTCYou are already doing that, this patreon is essentially such a fund. I will do my best to get it out this summer.
Hamilton Morris
2024-07-10 01:41:51 +0000 UTCFucking fantastic cast…would love to share this with many of our community. Can we raise a fund that would allow you to make it public??
Gabriel Frank
2024-07-10 01:18:28 +0000 UTCI had to listen twice. Really my favorite episode ever. Great job Hamilton and what a treasure Bryan is!
Matt Tresser
2024-07-06 13:57:19 +0000 UTCYou need to make this free on YouTube. Absolutely incredible stuff Hamilton.
Sean Qualischefski
2024-07-06 11:08:16 +0000 UTCI used to live just down the road from there. It's also just down the road from Noble Dairy. Supposedly Paul Stamets set a bunch of people up growing mushroom in the 80s because of the ease of accessing high quantity manure. Definitely still an absurd number of old mushroom growers out in those valleys. I've always wanted to try and find people that'd be open to being interviewed about those times
Siwanand Das
2024-07-06 07:27:11 +0000 UTCHere is a cameo from him on an episode of Hotel Hell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kEjG8IbaO9s&t=1094s&ab_channel=HotelHell
Hamilton Morris
2024-07-06 04:04:30 +0000 UTCYashpal Jayne is the guy you interviewed associated with an ibogaine death. It happens less than 100 miles from where I live and I run into Yashpal semi regularly. He's kinda lunatic and had definitely done some questionable things. The death was minor as far as I know. I believe he was detoxing from opiates. Really was wild to see him in the audience during the bufo conference, and even wilder to hear him support synthetic 5meo-Dmt. You can't throw a paper airplane in southern Oregon without hitting a 5-Meo shaman. Argon lamps and all 😏
Siwanand Das
2024-07-05 15:23:56 +0000 UTCWhat a find, Hamilton. Worth waiting for. Thank you for producing this fantastic interview. Bryan Hubbard - what a great find. Gem of a human being. Why does this remind me of what is going on with MDMA and the DEA right now? You are working on that one? You hinted at that on last podcast. Can't wait.
david
2024-07-04 18:29:01 +0000 UTCI agree, this one should be widely available to the public.
B-Boy Bungus
2024-07-04 14:31:29 +0000 UTCI would also like to request that this be added to the YouTube channel as soon as possible 🙏
Tom Suazo
2024-07-04 02:06:09 +0000 UTCSweet episode! Hamilton, the pharmacopoeia episode on ibogaine is I think the most beautiful piece, it's the episode I always share with people, and is the one I have seen 4+ times
Aidan
2024-07-03 23:15:24 +0000 UTCI feel smarter having listened to this the guy is eloquence personified.
Terry Henry
2024-07-03 21:55:49 +0000 UTCLove your take, Cheminterested.
Samantha Firoze Sethna
2024-07-03 17:35:21 +0000 UTCAmazing speaker. @50:45 "I certainly would be interested in reading and taking in the information of opposition." - Bryan Hubbard. Smart guy. With the Tao Lin interview, Tao kept saying how he had become convinced and didn't seem interested in looking for information counter to his belief. I go with the open-minded/research all sides to make your best argument.
B-Boy Bungus
2024-07-03 14:39:33 +0000 UTCThis podcast needs to be publicly posted, please put this one up on YouTube
Steve L
2024-07-03 06:54:03 +0000 UTCWhat an incredible speaker. I hope to speak half as well as him one day. His memory is incredible. You also interviewed him brilliantly hamilton! There will often be a moment when someone makes a general claim about some sort of drug policy issue, like for example, bryan talking about suboxone prescription being a profit generating mechanism for the same companies that produce opioids, and how that shows that it's an inherently corrupt money machine. Then you interject with a nuanced, researched, non moralistic take that notes the contextually relevant, intersectional nature of these substance use related harms, and doesn't pin up any one actor or entity on a dartboard. Not even the sacklers. and It seems like it's almost always well received, because it's always so well articulated. It's like a breath of fresh air each time I hear it happen. Never gets old. It's better every time.
Kd
2024-07-03 05:57:55 +0000 UTCIt's because every Hollywood movies portrays people with that access as uneducated rednecks and hillbillies. I recognize that this is a prejudice. I live in the south, and I still have a hard time getting past it sometimes.
Cheminterested
2024-07-03 02:51:06 +0000 UTCI also just want to say that I recognize how predatory the recovery industry can be as well. I'm not a huge fan of the for profit addiction treatment centers and what a huge industry this has become. Clearly it incentivizes the wrong things, but this goes back to the issues with privatization of the medical industry. If you need any evidence of how much money is made on recovery type the name of any drug with abuse potential into google and see how almost the entire first page is nothing but paid sponsored links for treatment centers. If I want I read the Wikipedia page for a compound I first have to scroll past dozens of treatment center ads.
Cheminterested
2024-07-03 02:48:57 +0000 UTCWhat an absolute G. Thank you for having him on that was awesome
Keenan Troll
2024-07-03 02:48:05 +0000 UTCI have to say I listened a bit further and want to say thank you to Hamilton for pushing back against that narrative and also I appreciate that he walked it back a bit.
Cheminterested
2024-07-03 02:22:26 +0000 UTCYeah, I think a more nuisanced and combined approach is beneficial here. Seems like he really wanted to paint medication assisted programs as the bad guy, but it doesn't have to be that way.
Cheminterested
2024-07-03 02:06:05 +0000 UTCI personally think any psychedelic program we can offer would be a good thing, and having an alternative treatment for OUD would be fantastic, but I get some real "anti big pharma, anti academia, anti big government" vibes from this guy and wish this conversation wouldn't have to be offered as a A vs B scenario. I'm not suggesting that the pharmaceutical company don't have some responsibility for the opioid epidemic, but I think making them the villain in this story is a comfortable narrative and points the finger at a single target. This is what people like. We like to have a bad guy to blame for our problems. Instead the cause is far more complex and has to do with so many larger societal issues that it would be very difficult for people to wrap their head around it and even more difficult to come up with a solution. Poverty, capitalism, privatization of medicine, the health care system in the US, mental health care, stigmatization of drug use, prohibition and the war on drugs... These are the real cause of the opioid epidemic. Personally, as a former heroin user and someone who benefited greatly from methadone treatment, I wish we could have a more nuanced conversation about this stuff in this country, but Americans want simple solutions to complex problems. I was on methadone for 5 year during which time I went back to school and obtained a degree in chemical engineering. In my junior year of school I tapered off methadone and stopped using it. I haven't abused opioids since 2009. It gave me a great sense of normalcy to my life and the stability I needed to get my life back. It's doesn't have to be a horror story or the big bad pharma industry. The quality of treatment facility matter greatly. I was lucky to go to a great facility that followed the guidelines and made you take individual as well as group therapy, in addition to regular drug testing. I just think we are simplifing this by saying, "pharma bad" and suggesting that instead we should have ibogaine. Hamilton himself has mentioned that the idea of the pharam industry being solely to blame is not a productive approach. Why not look at the benefits and shortcomings of both and try to take an approach that encourage the good and improves on the bad?
Cheminterested
2024-07-03 02:03:09 +0000 UTCThere is no way he hasn't been part of a speech and debate team or been to speech therapy. I've listened to about 90% of the podcasts You've put out and Bryan is by far the most persuasive and clear speaking guest you have ever had.
Spencer Nagle
2024-07-02 21:24:41 +0000 UTCTotally unrelatable. In my opinion more people in all lands should stop hiding their accents or dialectal features as long as they can be understood.
Jānis Stūrītis
2024-07-02 20:28:08 +0000 UTCDamn :/ that sucks for you, I think he’s an absolutely brilliant storyteller and his accent and cadence only contribute
Iris
2024-07-02 18:33:07 +0000 UTCGave it a second listen, this guy is wonderful to listen to does anyone else get a southern Terrance McKenna vibe?? He's so verbose and intelligent
zealot
2024-07-02 13:58:43 +0000 UTCHamilton youre really interesting me on iboga I swear each thing I hear is more compelling...........and what an advocate!!!
zealot
2024-07-02 07:33:41 +0000 UTCAh Hubbard, you breath of fresh air you
Samantha Firoze Sethna
2024-07-02 06:52:21 +0000 UTCNot cool Tom
Jeremy Williams
2024-07-02 03:03:02 +0000 UTCIt's also really cool that in a time of homogenized mass media and the erosion of regional culture, you can still find an accent that thick and syrupy. Really beautiful.
Zach
2024-07-02 01:13:56 +0000 UTCMan, Hubbard must be the most persuasive, passionate, eloquent, fascinating speaker I've heard...in a long time. Maybe ever? I mean, it helps that he has an amazing accent, but still. Really terrific discussion. Also kind of interesting that the matter of spirituality has been broached in two successive episodes, and in two quite different ways. ALSO his line about the preference for symbolic expression over the (dull, enervating) daily grind of engaged citizenship is one of the best summations of the nature of activism I've ever heard. Okay that's all for now. Great ep.
Zach
2024-07-02 01:10:15 +0000 UTCincredibly interesting ep, id never heard of the kentucky ibogaine program
balls mcballs
2024-07-02 00:56:15 +0000 UTCThis man makes me want to say the pledge of allegiance. Amazing guest; his intelligence, humility, and passion really comes through. Thank you!!
mia
2024-07-01 23:17:08 +0000 UTCI love this discussion. Bryan speaks so eloquently. Also loved how he was referring to the pharmaceuticals as “habituatin”.
spencer kenney
2024-07-01 22:55:43 +0000 UTCThe only Brain damage is yours thinking someone's brain damaged just because of an accent. You do realize you have an accent as well, right? And people who are foreigners think you sound goofy too.
M
2024-07-01 22:34:41 +0000 UTCOne of your most powerful episodes. Tears in my eyes at several moments. Hubbard's conviction is truly inspiring.
Kenneth Kraylie
2024-07-01 22:14:51 +0000 UTCIts so great listening to someone incredibly erudite and articulate; it is in itself such a joy having someone who has no vagueness or nonsense but really gets into it. Really wish he could have given some actual tips as you asked for public speaking. Funny how a lawyer ends up having one of the most ‘spiritually’ realised outlooks of your recent guests! Great interview.
Meek
2024-07-01 21:57:58 +0000 UTCI get the conflicts involved, but I'm not convinced by Hubbard's explanation for why states can't afford to "build out a recovery system", including specific figures ($100K to start someone on Bupe?) I think spending on law enforcement is a more likely explanation. What is the cost of policing, interdiction, surveillance/testing, courts, and incarceration annually? Even if we include those who don't happen to come into contact with the law, but who would otherwise be criminalized, is harm reduction and treatment more expensive than punishment? Also, even if 20% drop out of treatment after six months, it is still the case that OUD meds cut the OD death rate by over 50%, which nothing else comes close to touching (except perhaps for a Safe Supply of the actual drugs people seek, depending on how that is done).
Peter Thomas
2024-07-01 21:07:45 +0000 UTCI wish I could get over his accent. I just can't. I'm not American, I'm not able to hear this guy talk and think he's brain damaged.
Tom
2024-07-01 19:51:07 +0000 UTCThere's something comforting about that Kentucky twang 😜
M
2024-07-01 18:03:36 +0000 UTCI'd like to snatch this fellow's voice & cadence for ALL of my future interactions with A.I, thanks in advance. ...but seriously, great episode, thanks Mr. Bryan Hubbard & Hamilton!
Jeffrey Stokes
2024-07-01 17:15:52 +0000 UTCWow! What a moving episode! And what a wonderful speaker this dude is.
Noel
2024-07-01 17:09:01 +0000 UTCHis word choice and ability to provide sufficient context succinctly when making points is truly impressive. I think I've found someone old enough and with enough of a drawl that he might be able to convince my friends and relatives from the deep south to open their mind to these things.
Andrew Bocz
2024-07-01 16:54:57 +0000 UTCWow! I’ve never heard a more eloquent speaker. Great discussion.
Aaron Lowell Denton
2024-07-01 15:54:09 +0000 UTCOh snap. Dropping back to back!
M
2024-07-01 15:50:40 +0000 UTC
