Borges 1b - Tlön, Uqbar, Orbis Tertius

My point is that, in this story, author and reader are initially synchronized in time, say the year 1940. But then something happens, perhaps the mere writing of the main part, after which the narrator is accelerated in time but the reader is not, such that in the last part the narrator reports on years that have gone by (in this other place), yet the reader is reading the published story in 1940.

Excited, I'll read that! Double-slit experiement here we come!

Dana F

One of my first theories about New Sun was pretty much this, only on a massive scale. The repeating (and climbing) sequence of universes was God creating Himself from nothing, reverse engineering Himself into existence via Sci Fi means in the far future

Dunstan Thorn

The hronir definitely do seem to have a connection to the way images are made genuine from Iniri's mirrors. The more I think about this the more applicable it seems. - J

Based on his essay "A New Refutation of Time" I think the mirror bits refer to his speculation that reality is as illusory as a reflection in a mirror, or (per Craig) that the "real" world is our own reflection. -J

Craig and I recently recorded a conversation about Borges' essay "A New Refutation of Time." It was so much fun for us, and touches on a lot of what you're saying here. James

Borges somehow tapped into the most basic metaphysical principles and quantum physics. What is reality if all possible realities exist and Observer Effect has a real effect? That means there is no objective anything and the perceiver's beliefs shape their perception, carving out a chunk of possible realities (now probable) from the infinite block of marble.

Dana F

I’ve somehow never read Borges, and I’m comfortable enough with myself to admit it. I haven’t known really where to begin! This reading series will give me the hand-hold I evidently need to head to the local bookshop.

By casting the ending bit seven years into the future, I believe Borges is creating a bubble universe or something. One fact seems to be that this other place has accelerated time, such that seven years there is maybe a month here. Sounds like the land of fairy. Questions raised by this include: Was the narrator Borges drawn into fairy, or is the narrator Borges a fairy-imitation, a "mirror-clone"? Is the story itself the first appearance of Tlon in our world, the narrator's world having recently been colonized by Tlon?

The way you describe the process of the stories I think is exactly right. In the first section, there had never been that secret cabal of people writing the stories. It might even have been just a mistaken recollection on Caseras' part. But it started to make things true. The rest snowballed. So the "history" and "reality" in each of the three sections is changing and developing in each one. It's quite literally a labyrinth that changes as you move through it. The questions that I still have are kind of take away questions. Is this like a statement on the power of positive thinking? hehheh. Like, if you believe it, they will come. Or whatever. Or is it just a cool thought experiment? I'm less sure. But I do think that "Orbis Tertius" will be what our world will be once Tlon has had all its effects, and Tlon will become "our" history instead of story inside of it. Yeah, Le Guin is amazing. Oddly enough, the development of Earthsea is a lot like Tlon. She very thoughtfully changes things about the world based on the kind of story she's telling. And the very last Earthsea stories are almost deliberately about changing the "metaphysics" of Earthsea from what Ged goes through in the first (fighting off his shadow or fear of death) to embracing it in the last book. It's pretty astounding. - C

One interesting thing about the format he used, where he presents the story as an article he published in 1940 followed by a postscript in 1947, makes me reflect on the entire notion of idealism within the story. What if (in the context of the story), there were never originally (whatever that means if there is no time) a group of people creating Tlon? Picture: Borges and his friend discuss Uqbar; then an article comes into being about it. They further try to chase down Tlon, and an encyclopedia volume appears. Consider the hroneir concept: the article about Uqbar, then the Vol 11 of the Tlon encyclopedia, and then the entire set, are all hroneir, come into existence after being suggested and searched for without a clear idea of what they will find. As our world becomes Tlon, the past is not fixed, the way we would expect it to be, but is a mutable memory, the way that Tlon would expect, so past writers of these works can suddenly be created. Looked at this way, (fictional) Borges (the narrator of the story), is either unaware of this happening - or is doing it intentionally. In this way, he is perhaps after all one type of the unreliable narrator referred to early in the story. The translation he is starting at the end of the story is another reflection of the work it translates, which is another instance of his reflection theme - mirrors, hroneir, and so forth. Is he perhaps hoping that by suggesting his project, a translation will appear elsewhere? Or by adding a translation (reflection), is he trying to reach the point where he has made a reflection better than the original, as hroneir are said to do? What do you think it means that the final encyclopedia (the Tlon language version?) is to be called Orbis Tertius? That makes me think "Third World", which could mean it's the third project, but could also mean Earth. Perhaps it implies that Tlon was meant to become Earth all along. Anyway, thank you both for this introduction to Borges. I'd seen him referenced many places, but never got around to reading anything by Borges, and I'm glad this motivated me to do so. (It reminds me of some of Stanislaw Lem's books, by the way). And Craig, thanks for the reference to LeGuin. The Lathe of Heaven has always been one of my favorite books, and I love the connection. Leguin has more than once addressed the themes of identity, reflections, and perceptions affecting reality.

I think that's right. There's something in here about "reality" being a projection that we don't control. I can't remember now which half it was, but I talked about this and Le Guin's Lathe of Heaven, which has a similar point. - C [edit: it's the second part...]

That thread of the story and/or conversation, wherein the noble utopian vision becomes tainted and/or corrupted as it manifests upon Earth, reminds me of Eric Hoffer's famous line about how every great cause starts as a Movement, turns into a Business, and ends up as a Racket. Perhaps the ugly American tycoon of the story marks the transition into "Business" on this flowchart.

The creation of hronir, the doubling and the mirrors, remind me a lot of Father Inire & Hethor

Dunstan Thorn

hot off the presses!

Internaut