Fantano is WRONG and Shawn Cee is RIGHT about Tyler the Creator being right or wrong

I listened in the car and a bit in a hurry to the 3 videos (Tyler, Fantano, and yours), but the point of the discussion seems to me to be not so much the contemporaneity or otherwise of the music one loves, but rather the correlation between those who make any top 5/assign any rating/produce any musical commentary, and the listener/reader's level of critical capacity/independence of thought. If I have interpreted or projected Tyler's words correctly, I agree with him whole heartedly.Indeed, it seems to me that there is a tendency to want to objectify musical taste that is toxic and harmful. What Fantano does in a more or less subtle and more or less annoying way in his channel is to put himself above others (often trying to lighten it up with satire that to me is unsuccessful) by ridiculing the opinions of others. Since we are talking about art and not science, there are no objective parameters that say something is better than another, so, at least to my sensibility, it's all in how one talks about music. It's great to analyze it (as you do so well), it's great to play with it (make top 5, tier lists) and discuss it with friends, but it's arrogant to want to impose it on others. And Fantano, despite his great intelligence and musical culture, has created formats that irritate me. Fantano aside, what I think Tyler is implicitly trying to bring out from his speech is that there is more need for independent thinkers who can untie themselves from the influence of black or white comments in social media, or (I add) music criticism gurus.

Paolo Masia

Interesting debate. I find it funny that Tyler is getting so worked up about 17 year olds making rap lists.First, you ask a 17 year old their top five today and then ask again a month later, they're going to give you something different. Second, one of the great things about this generation is that they don't have all the generational boundaries that previous generations had. They're as likely to like something made 20- 40 years ago as something made yesterday. Third, Tyler is implying that 17 year olds should support stuff made by their own generation, which in and of itself is find, and they do support current stuff obviously, but why the limits ? What Tyler is making is a political argument, not an artistic argument, and do we really want to reduce art to merely the political ?

matthew brown

yes tysm for this i was so confused w fantano