Patreon Art Thief...

Hello! This post is over 6 years old now, so I've moved on from whatever questions I asked in it, but I do appreciate the feedback, all the same. :)

RoninDude

I don't know if it is a pre-requirement but you can also set Patreon to Pay up front so they will always have to pay up and if they then leak your stuff they still paid but the damage will still be done, as Heartzmd mentioned Gumroad is a nice alternative only problem I Tend to have with this is lack of information knowing whats in the pack so I thats where if I can drop the lowest pledge to scout see if the artist in question has what I seek. So to keep damage for yourself to a minimum, but still have something to show off maybe work with Watermarking, or censoring bits so it become a preview, as for my earlier statement I always seek out the hentai stuff so preferably Clean, Creampie. not so much into pin-ups but sometimes even pinups are too amazing to pass up.

H3nt4iGlory

Like I mention before, setting up a gumroad will help. Examples: <a href="https://gumroad.com/tsuaii" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://gumroad.com/tsuaii</a> <a href="https://gumroad.com/adovion_art" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://gumroad.com/adovion_art</a>

HEARTZMD

Thanks for the thoughtful comment! It's true, piracy is annoyingly not going anywhere. For now, I am focused on discouraging pledge dodging. My current method is to email links to a dropbox for the current month, so one could only get the current month's high resolution files. I will be setting up a way to sell the previous months, as well, so that a pirate can only get away with about 4 images at a time. It doesn't solve the problem of piracy, but it at least halts the pledge dodgers from doing their thing.

RoninDude

If 'Pledge-Dodging' is the problem then there's an easy fix, just e-mail the rewards. However, if piracy is your problem there is nothing you can do. Because a 'pledge-doger' is only one form of pirate.You will eventually have Pirates that aren't pledge-dogers; people who pay for your art and still leak it. It happens with the music and movie industry; someone purchases the original product then leaks it. This is probably the reason why the creators of this site aren't too concerned with fixing the 'pledge-dodging' issue because this wouldnt stop pirating in general.

HEARTZMD

That's a good idea! I'll have to do some research, because you are right, musicians deal with a lot of theft, don't they? Thanks for the input!

RoninDude

Watermarks is definitely a good way to go. I would also suggest you look at ways the music industry handles this sort of thing. A lot of musicians see their work pirated as often as bought, even if it is free and legit on sites like youtube. Maybe things they do can translate over your work.

Doug Martin

Thank you! Let me say it was hard. But, I tried to be as honest and clear as I could. It was pretty clear that every excuse they used was just them trying to validate the theft with pseudo-morality. You could tell they were really reaching for justification. Their reasoning was weak, and didn't correlate with the topic at all. The general excuses that they gave had more to do with them feeling entitled, then anything else. "There is so much art available that we can't afford it all, so we steal it." Apply that logic to any other service or product and no one would argue that you are a thief, and it's wrong. It's like going to the music store and stealing cd's because there are too many artists to choose from. That makes no sense. In the end, it's clear that their views were really just aimed at making themselves feel better. Still, I felt the need to drop in on the conversation, so that decent people can get a chance to hear my side of the situation, without feeling like I was trying to shame anyone. That'd be pointless, anyways. :)

RoninDude

Just read your entire thread on said pirate site, and you handled it exceptionally well! I wish I could communicate as eloquently about the topic as you did. You're more of an art industry veteran than I am so it was nice to learn about the pre-Internet days as well. All in all a healthy discussion! Though I wonder who they mean when they mention the artists abusing the system (besides the two obvious ones) hah

tsuaii

Actually God damn this is a GREAT idea. ^ This all the way. Steven's got a great point, and great ideas.

Delta9-11

Those are very good points. WOW, I never would have thought about imbedding member numbers into the art. That would make finding the culprit pretty darn easy! It'd be a bit harder to distribute, I think, but it might be worth it... XD I could probably even do it in a way that people couldn't see it unless I added some kind of filter. How spy is that! XD For now, I am going to add watermarks to the work, as was suggested earlier, so at least people know where to find me. But in the meantime, I am going to be looking into building a better way to defend myself. You've given some great ideas. :D

RoninDude

That's a noble way to look at it. It's exactly people with that mentality that make Patreon work. Rest assured, your help, and the help of everyone else here, is changing my life, and allowing me to be more productive. I hope it shows in my art. I am constantly inspired to make progress, because of what we have here. Thanks again!

RoninDude

I just read this thread all the way down. The watermarking idea is very effective for giving you credit for the work as is embedding member numbers within the artwork itself (Jab Comix uses this method to control unauthorized re-posting/pirating and they actively sue people who steal their work). That way when you see your artwork up on an unauthorized site, you can ID the individual and Patreon will have that person's personal information (from their pledge) that you and your lawyer can send the "cease and desist" letter to. That might get their attention (ha, ha unless they are in Easter Europe, Russia, or China). Another way of looking at it is as free publicity. I'm starting to see my books pop up on Mobi, Bit-Torrent and other sites, so I say "Well, there are distributing my work for me for free." Your work also has that level of quality that, when people see it, will want to find your sites t osee what new things you have done.

Jack Stewart

Thanks for the input, Steve! That's good advice, and I will keep that in mind. Perhaps once my situation stabilizes, I will look into a good defense system for such occurrences. I'd actually like to set aside a budget for dealing with this sort of thing, as my career progresses.

RoninDude

I don't need to pay anything to see good art, I pay money because I like seeing that Art coming. It's always been a shame that artists typically don't have good income. If I can support someone for doing what I wish I could be doing, I'm gonna do it. And I think I'm not alone in this mindset. That being said, Logos on the website page and clean in the downloads.

Katakaan

Hey, Ray, I've read a lot about intellectual property rights. First thing you can do is get a lawyer who specializes in intellectual property rights and have him/her draft a cease and desist letter. Then you go and post that letter to every webmaster site that has your unauthorized artwork on it. I understand it is fairly effective particularly if that site is trying to make money off of your work. If you can't find a lawyer, there are templates out there that you can edit and use for yourself. If the site persists (and the webmaster is located in the U.S.) you can try to sue them but that costs more money than you are likely to get back unless (unless it's a company Disney or DreamWorks). Steve

Jack Stewart

Haha! At ease, soldier! I appreciate the readiness, but I think diplomacy might be out best bet, here. Thanks dude. :D

RoninDude

I appreciate that a lot, Jear. Honestly, I wish I could give it all away! There's just this pesky thing called "survival" that keeps getting in the way... XD Joking aside, I do wish people considered that. But still, I can't fault them for their interest. Even though their actions are wrong, I do appreciate the love for my work.

RoninDude

That's a fantastic idea, I think I will start doing that! Adding the Patreon logo to the sides of the images when I upload the posts every week, and then send the clean versions via email after pledges have been processed. I'll be sure that the patreon logo isn't obscene, lol. Thanks for the tip!

RoninDude

I was half expecting to get a troll flame war when I posted, but I did just want to be heard. I was ready to bounce when I got the first troll comment. And although the views that were presented to me were, as you put it "hilariously wrong", they were presented in a civil manor, so I decided to hold a discussion, for the sake of anyone who might pop in. As you said, some might think better of it and join up, even for a few months. I do have a backlog, after all, so it's not like everyone HAS to stay on. I appreciate that people do, but there are honorable ways to go about it that I have provided, that don't require people to cheat me. Thanks for your comment, I always appreciate your thoughtful approach. :) And I think I'll give those watermarks a second thought.

RoninDude

*picks up his rifle and puts on a stern face* Just give the word Ronindude...Just give the word....*looks at you all serious ready to kick some ass in the name of your art!*

Delta9-11

Hey man, it was super easy to find that thread. All I have to say is that you handled it really classy. It amazes me how some people feel entitled to whatever they want regardless of how it affects the people they take it from. I think a lot of the people here give what we can and if we aren't getting all the art that you put out, we certainly wish we could.

Jear

A big downside to anything revolving art is this is bound to happen. It's not fair, fun or cool but it's a stigma that will fall here whenever there are any people that can find a loophole. Patreon is a great place but does have the "Pledge Dodge" loophole. All I can say is to keep doing what you're doing, like others have. You post lower res images on here and keep the good stuff through Dropbox and the like for those who are really here to support. Adding your Patreon site on the corners would not be a bad thing. With your art and ridiculously reasonable prices, you'll get some people who will join even through the poor way they found you.

Nicholas Grauert

I searched and found said forum/thread pretty easily. You did the best thing possible. You can't fight that, it is going to happen. All you can do is try and gain a positive out of it. Post in the thread! Let them know about your patreon and become an actual "person" to them and some will hop over. Some of their views are pretty hilariously wrong, but the second it turns into a battle/threat kinda deal, they will start trying to pledge dodge and upload out of spite and harm you however possible. You did the right thing, I would just suggest what is mentioned earlier, keep going exactly as you have been, but maybe add a little watermark to your patreon along with your DA. Major kudos for handling what (honestly) is usually is the beginning of the end for many artists.

DonAnon

Thanks for the input! That's actually what I ended up doing. :) It makes sense to not feed the ugliness. I just left a comment telling people where to find me if they want to support the creation of new artwork.

RoninDude

I'm with David Best. Nothing good can come from making a stink about it and finding a clever way of turning it around as a positive can reap rewards. In short... just keep kicking ass and you'll be fine.

Zombie Possum

That's a good point! I already put my DA page address on each picture, on one of the corners, but maybe I aught to put the patreon instead. Thanks for the input!

RoninDude

Constructively you could watermark all work that's posted here (as opposed to send to paying members) with your Patreon address, that way if people visiting this pirate site see your work and like it they know where to come for the real stuff. It won't stop them ripping you off but maybe it might bring some new fans back here

Michael

Thank you, that means a ton! As annoying and frustrating as it is, I don't think they can hurt us, so long as there are honest folk out there who are willing to support the creators they enjoy. It truly means a lot to hear good people speak up. :)

RoninDude

It disgusts me that sites like this exist. I really don't know enough about the DMCA to give advice in the matter but you do have my continued support.

Shawn K. Younkin

That's a fantastic mentality. Thank you! It's kinda funny, too, because that's what I did, when I saw it. I dropped a comment saying that I knew this was going to happen eventually, and I am not mad at the people who find it and enjoy it. But I also mentioned that it's how I make my living, and it's what funds the creation of new artwork. Without it, my gallery would be barren. I guess it's the one who decided to pledge dodge and then post it elsewhere that really offends me, not the ones who went to the forum and found it. It just feels so intentionally hurtful. Hearing you say such things very much makes me feel I did the right thing, although I will admit that I have had quite a lot of stress over it, since. I'm trying to see the bigger picture, though, and not get lost in my self over all of this. I guess I need to just trust that there are more honest people than thieves in this world, or at least enough to continue to do good. Thanks again for the comment! It makes me feel a lot better, personally.

RoninDude

Oh really? Well, then, I might have to look into this. Thanks!

RoninDude

Canada does have reciprocity with U.S. copyright law. If that doesn't work I am sure plenty of us know "someone" that knows how to retaliate electronically.

Matthew D. Riddle

Adopt the same mentality that Steam and GoG have: piracy happens. What people are paying for on Patreon is a service that amounts to ease of access. The scale isn't nearly as large, of course, but whenever you find your art uploaded somewhere, use it as a marketing opportunity - these are clearly people interested in what you make, so put up a post and just encourage people to come and pledge so they don't have to wait for the next pirate drop. Be cool about it so it makes the Robin Hoods look less like they're sticking it to some stingy artist and more like they're just being a bit of a dick to a genuinely cool dude. I don't want to say things like 'anyone who enjoys your art is a fan and should be appreciated' because I know when you rely on your art to stay fed that's kind of a line of bullshit, but there's a shred of truth to it. Be the kind of person that people will like and want to support. You can't really 'win' against pirates unless you can compete against them in convenience and popular opinion.

ShakespearOnIce

Hey, I say go for it! I know that I don't make as much as you do on your page, but I don't do any nudes at all, here, and I am actually doing just as you said, with adding non sexy art to the mix. So far, the reception has been very positive! In fact, today I am working on a piece to post in the next day or so, and it's completely fantasy mainstream, no sexy lingerie, bikinis, skimpy clothes or anything. I intend to move more in that direction, if my audience approves, so if you like, you can always study my progress as a experiment. :)

RoninDude

I'll have to look into that. Thanks!

RoninDude

Neil Stevens (PresJPolk)

I agree, I think it's a big deal, too, which is why I wanted to present it to everyone here. It's frustrating to have something that I work hard on, and rely on to make my living, just handed out for free by someone else. It feels as if someone just walked into my house and started handing out my possessions for anyone to use. The things in my house are mine, and the only people who should have access to my stuff is my friends, the people who I invite in. This person violated my rights and disrespected the work that I have created, on top of insulting the value of the pledges of all those who have supported me. There really isn't much I can do about it, either. The site in question has in bold on the top of each page "We ignore DMCA Takedown notices, we are Canadian". :/ I am making a black list with emails on it. I can see when someone pledges or changes a pledge, so it's clear when someone is being suspicious. For example, when someone pledges and then unpledges within minutes. I can at least put that email on a list of suspicious people and watch them, though I am not sure what I can do with that info, besides taking everything off the walls and emailing it to the honest folks, do that the "Pledge-Dodgers" can't get anything without actually going through with a pledge. But that removes the backlog, which sucks for the honest folks...

RoninDude

Yes, and it's been bothering me so much that I'm considering phasing out nudity/NSFW rewards from my Patreon entirely, just so I don't have to deal with them. Sure, I would likely lose a ton of pledges, but I do realize there are true supporters out there as well, who didn't just come for the nudity. But this is just what I'm considering for my page, and am in no way saying others should sacrifice their earnings and follow suit.

tsuaii

I for one think it is a big deal. You put so much effort and work in to create something of such beauty and expression. I personally chose to support you because I love what you do, and after the 1st commission you did for me I saw this as a way to help ya keep going, the Patreon rewards are just icing on the cake. All that being said, anyone lothesome enough to try and claim your work as theirs and rip ya off at the same time deserves any action you can take against them. If it's bad enough, well we southeners know how to hide a body real well.

Matthew D. Riddle

Yeah, I think you are right. The site in question has a bold message saying "We ignore DMCA takedown notices, we are Canadian" at the top of each page. :/

RoninDude

You know, that really does make me feel better. I've been stressing like mad over this. I am very thankful for what we have here, and I am actually afraid of losing it. Knowing that I have honest people backing me is a real reassurance, so thank you. :)

RoninDude

Any system can and will be abused by someone. You might be able to use a DMCA takedown notice, but that would pretty much be like Whack-A-Mole. There's no way you'd be able to stop them all.

Manuel

Just F them. You can't stop them, and anything you do to attempt it, they'll figure out a loophole. We're not dealing with sensible people here, after all. They're freetards. Just do what you do, because the rest of us aren't going anywhere!

James Champlin

Which is really ironic, considering. It just shows how little they know (or care) about the issues we artists face to bring the art to our audience. One of the arguments presented was that art should be free, and it's greedy and unhealthy to ask for support from your audience. Seems a convenient stand point from the ones' who don't have to do the actual work. The whole notion that people like this exist just disgusts me. So entitled. :/

RoninDude

Yeah, I think you hit the nail on the head. I had a discussion with one of the people on the site in question, and its true, they basically tried to take a moral stand point on the issue.

RoninDude

I've been voicing my opinion on the matter in various places and, basically, it seems we artists are the bad guys for needing to make a living. It's kind of a Robin Hood situation for them, where they see that monthly pledge amount next to our names and feel we need some justice handed to us. And to defend themselves they usually bring in discussions about morality. I guess the internet just gets really weird when it comes to pin-ups and nudity.

tsuaii