[Hereafter] Chapter CXXXIX: Paracelsus
Added 2024-03-04 02:59:33 +0000 UTCI'm faced with a bit of a conundrum. I got down to the very last part of the chapter and realized I could take the story two different ways. I was completely torn on which would be better for the story and couldn't make up my mind, so I wrote out both possibilities and decided I'd put it to you guys to get your opinion on the matter.
This moment in question is obviously a very pivotal moment, for all that the scene itself seems so small. It's going to change the direction of the story to some degree and affect Taylor's progression as a character.
I am leaning one way more than the other, and I have a feeling I already have a good idea how this is going to work out, but I still wanted to let you guys weigh in.
EDIT: Moving down all the way. 4/14/2024
Obviously, a decision has already been made, but for the sake of letting you guys see what could have been and getting a broader opinion on everyone's thoughts, I'll leave the poll up.
Comments
Yeah, one of the spin-off Fate stories (Fate/Strange-Fake, I think) has this version of Jack as an embodiment of the mystery of the figure.
Chris N
2024-04-15 20:32:54 +0000 UTCShe did, Jack's agreement to "be a good girl" made the link.
Chris N
2024-04-15 20:31:30 +0000 UTCI mean, there IS a second version of Jack the Ripper That can be summoned - the Berserker version.
V01D
2024-04-15 20:25:49 +0000 UTCGiven that canon Taylor was very protective of Children -the only one she hurt was Aster, and even that can be looked at as a Mercy Kill- B feels more in character for her. After all, she did run that orphanage after Leviathan. Not sure why she didnβt make a contract, though.
V01D
2024-04-15 20:25:03 +0000 UTCA was beautifully written, heartbreaking, and absolutely believable, but I gotta say B edged out on top for me. Chaldea's mission is fixing the past to save the future, and Taylor's own growth past who she used to be is a fundamental part of her journey here.
ballisticEclipse
2024-04-15 18:46:59 +0000 UTCB fuck the canon Taylor has made it clear she wants to change and Taylorβs a do it not say it kind of gal.
maners bams
2024-03-25 22:02:51 +0000 UTCB I think shows the dream of Chaldea, of idealism and striving for the best, working out with a lot of hard work and empathy. Itβs great character development for Taylor who is walking the line between pragmatism and not repeating the mistakes of past-Taylor. Itβs too late obviously, but you said you were ok with comments anyways.
Marc Beans
2024-03-25 18:02:24 +0000 UTCAnd the fact that it *does* make sense is . . . This game, I swear.
Geoffrey Sullivan
2024-03-05 13:59:23 +0000 UTCOnly in FGO does that last paragraph make any sense at all.
Caractacus
2024-03-05 13:05:23 +0000 UTCI personally vote for B as well. Whatever else, I generally always prefer a character be used to their best potential narratively before being killed off. And option B just has SO MUCH potential in exploring for a lot of different characters. Beyond that I agree that it speaks better to Taylor's character development to not be able to do a repeat of one of her biggest regrets from her time as a cape. Just the potential exploration of that in her off time. Of not being able to make the hard decision speaks to the conflict between who she's on some level trying to be again vs becoming more the person she wanted to be at the end of it all. That sounds like a fascinating topic to explore! Also disconnected from the choice... was that other Jack the historical Jack the Ripper? Their killings did just mysteriously stop one day with no resolution to the mystery... Is that because the real answer to the mystery of Jack the Ripper is that he empowered himself with his own legend from the future and got killed in Scotland Yard by Time Cops in a Time-Space Singularity that resolved itself into "he got shanked by some rando in an alley and died" when History snapped back into proper place?
SilverShadows
2024-03-05 05:12:46 +0000 UTCIf Taylor really wants to change, then it *has* to be Option B; otherwise, she's falling *right* back into the same patterns as before, despite *everything . . .* And *that,* I think, would *truly* break her.
Geoffrey Sullivan
2024-03-05 02:37:01 +0000 UTCSo essentially the (A)ster route or the (B)onesaw route? Hm, choices worthy of a Yoko Taro game.
Michael
2024-03-04 14:06:06 +0000 UTCI think that this is one of those cases where option B is actually the more practical one. Maybe it's just me, but Taylor is more than willing to work with horrible people to see the world saved, so I'd think that she'd have recruited Jackie. Or maybe I'm misjudging Taylor's risk/reward balance.
Joseph
2024-03-04 13:51:01 +0000 UTCIn some respects she probably has more in common with Archer with an alien perspective.
Gifted-Monster
2024-03-04 09:41:41 +0000 UTCI will say, it's quite possible that Taylor does option A for non memetic badass reasons. Taylor's ethics isn't some sort of rules based utilitarian or virtue ethics. She isn't going let up on the chance of letting all humans die because she wasn't willing to kill some fake person. She killed a baby to save the world. She brutally mind controlled basically every parahuman and went and killed herself to prevent the end of the world. Perhaps she wouldn't go about it the same way if she had to do it all again. But if the world's on the line, she needs to do what has to be done to make sure humanity survives. Killing a kid is easy on that scale. Counterpoint: Taylor had regrets. And coopting an enemy asset can possibly save the world a lot better than killing said asset. And lets her live her life more how she wants to live, in the rules based utilitarian or virtue ethical way. So I mean, could go either way. But it's not like option A isn't unrealistic.
Green0Photon
2024-03-04 08:34:03 +0000 UTCπ€
Green0Photon
2024-03-04 08:27:04 +0000 UTCThe nonchalance was very deliberate, particularly on NR's part. "Abraham" and Nagato and even Arash understand everything Taylor narrates about Jackie, that she's dangerous, deadly, and has already killed just in this manifestation alone. Killing her, whatever she looks like, was always the way it was likely to shake out. But for NR in particular, I wanted to highlight that incongruity between what she looks like and what she actually is. She's not a little girl, not even in the slightest, so thinking of her as one is a mistake. At best, you consider her neurodivergent. At worst, she's not human at all, so you can't let yourself fall into the trap of her innocent appearance.
Caractacus
2024-03-04 08:22:04 +0000 UTCSorry to burst your bubble, but I didn't manage to find room for Jackie to lament "Robin" getting killed. If version B winds up being the one I go with, I'll have to try and find a good spot. It's part of why Arash has no problem body blocking those bolts at the first salvo. His Robust Health literally hard counters Robin Hood's whole shtick.
Caractacus
2024-03-04 08:15:52 +0000 UTCI don't want to influence the result either way, so I'm not commenting on it at all.
Caractacus
2024-03-04 08:13:52 +0000 UTCI think I prefer section A, itβs very sad, but honestly it is absolutely not the worst way for Jacky to go out. Especially with how nonchalant everyone is about it, I think that is what really sells it for me. I do like section B and can understand why is has almost all the votes, it is very touching.
Vega
2024-03-04 06:13:59 +0000 UTCAs of me writing this comment, 16 votes total, and all 16 towards option B. We're of one mind on this. I wonder whether James agrees π€
Green0Photon
2024-03-04 05:12:29 +0000 UTCWhile version A seems to be in character, I feel like it's also what the people who only know meme Taylor would say. Maybe it's because I'm a sucker for positivity, and however I've been influenced by reading Ryuugi's Sect, but I do prefer B. It's Taylor trying to grow, and I like her being somewhat more motherly. And I feel like that dynamic will be more fun to see, considering how much everyone else has only seen Taylor as this unrelenting badass. So being the mommy to someone/something so dangerous, it's very narratively satisfying. A dangerous kid for a dangerous mother. I do really want to see an omake of Rika and everyone else's reactions to Taylor's insanely brutal murder of Jackie. But I feel like Jackie living is more fun long term in this story. Character growth and more fun interactions, rather than just bad memetic badassery that isn't really cool. Mercy is cooler and more hardcore than murder.
Green0Photon
2024-03-04 05:11:41 +0000 UTCI'm actually a bit torn here. Version A would be the most in character for Taylor. She has a job to do and she'll do what she needs to to get it done. On the other hand I like to believe that Taylor is going to try to be better than she used to be while she's at Chaldea. Not just for herself, but for the twins as well.
NotSoAwesme .
2024-03-04 05:05:34 +0000 UTCI agree Version A, while done well, feels like a step backwards for Taylor
Philip Dessert
2024-03-04 04:47:50 +0000 UTCHad to choose version B as it gives Taylor a chance at redemption. Not just for killing Aster but also her own unresolved trauma with her own mother dying. I can see how Option 1 would be good, but I also think that it would damage deam morale and dynamics, to learn that Taylor-Senpai basically killed a kid who called her mummy. It'd make them look at her with fear.
Gifted-Monster
2024-03-04 04:42:30 +0000 UTCDefinitely version B but I'm curious which way you are leaning and why. I honestly can't see how version A would make any sense. I believe that neither canon Taylor nor Hereafter Taylor would be willing to kill Jackie. Canon Taylor while having killed Aster did so only under very specific circumstances. If canon Taylor would be in the situation Hereafter Taylor currently is in, I don't believe she would be able to kill Jackie and would instead try to rationalise it as using Jackie as an ally. Hereafter Taylor trying to be better would maybe thought similar but have enough introspection to be aware that she just honestly does not want to kill a child even if said child is a servant. That said, I believe that Taylor being Jackie's mommy has just to much humourous potential to not go with version B. Just imagine all the reactions the twins will have to their "badass cold hearted senpai" awkwardly trying to be a caring single mom.
Cardie
2024-03-04 04:25:32 +0000 UTCAlso put my own vote down for Version B, for the exact same reasons that s22132 already posted, so... I don't have anything to add, really, other than seeing Taylor backslide into the (IMHO, 1000% overdone) Hard Woman Must Make Hard Decisions mould (fanon exaggerated or otherwise) would, again IMHO, drop this story's appeal like a proverbial 10 ton chunk of rock. Addendum: A salute (and a shot of one's drink of choice) to the off-screen elimination of [s]the greatest soldier of the 20th century, Big Boss[/s] the subject of one of many tales of huntsmen, William Tell(?)...
TimeDiver
2024-03-04 04:12:34 +0000 UTCI'm sure my vote won't be a surprise. ;) And setting aside my personal preferences, I think Version B makes more sense for the story. Taylor is trying to be better, with all the struggle that entails. This would be a big step for her, proof of her progress, even if it might fade away with the Singularity. Version A feels more like a step back towards her biggest regrets, even if it might be the smarter, more rational option. But that's only my opinion. :) Also, I really want to see how the twins and the rest of the team react to Version B. :P
s22132
2024-03-04 03:33:58 +0000 UTC
