We're In Serious Trouble
Added 2024-11-06 05:52:49 +0000 UTCHey folks, it's bad. MAGA is on track to win everything. Matt and I got on for some unfiltered, unedited talk.
Comments
Do we know precisely how all machines count ballots with a blank record (no vote, no write in) and if not, how would someone at FEC or DOJ or CISA verify that?
dddebz
2024-11-08 02:48:30 +0000 UTCThank you! I still can't believe I get to do any of this.
Matt Cameron
2024-11-07 18:01:09 +0000 UTCWhen you’re the change candidate, and the electorate wants change, you don’t need a great man or a great strategy. You just need to not be the status quo. It got Keir Starmer elected. It could have gotten Kamala elected. Instead she ceeded that ground.
127dot0dot0dot1
2024-11-07 17:25:41 +0000 UTCAh yes, the great man theory of politics, perennially popular despite the last decade of actual observed results. The GOP literally just won despite nominating a bad candidate who ran a bad campaign with no strategy, but no the reason the Dems didn't win is because they didn't pick a Good Candidate and Good Strategy.
Chris Conley
2024-11-07 16:10:08 +0000 UTCI’m so sorry.
Alfhild
2024-11-07 15:41:11 +0000 UTCSir, this was excellent.
Michael Anderson
2024-11-07 13:43:56 +0000 UTCBecause it's not a simple solution. When presented simply, it's easy to handwave and ignore. I've tried reaching ppl before. But I have a group working on this, looking for funding. Unfortunately, Silicon Valley is more interested in funding AI. Long story. But it's an idea we need to spread so it reaches common vernacular. Simple question: with all the information out there, why can't we just Google "the truth"? Well, the answer is complicated (and goes all the way to fundamental questions in philosophy), but for practical questions, the real answer is just that the internet wasn't built for it. But it CAN be. Why can't we just Google "Which candidate will be worse for inflation?" Seems like most Trump voters got that one wrong. Why is that possible? It's because of the way our communication systems work. The white paper is old (pre-ChatGPT), but still fully relevant. https://canonicaldebatelab.com/
Timothy High
2024-11-07 12:26:07 +0000 UTCexcellent, I hope to see her make a mofo tap out in the next one
Bald Weasels Scrotal Manscaping
2024-11-07 12:18:44 +0000 UTCI want to know, too! Why not just tell us here?
Emily
2024-11-07 12:14:29 +0000 UTCI agree with you that reaching voters is not working. Here's one of my thoughts on something we could do. Over $15.9 billion was spent on the 2024 federal election cycle. And for what? Who’s convinced by an ad in this polarized environment? What if the DNC invested in community centers and litter cleanup? Instead of showing up only for votes, they could engage with communities consistently—listening to concerns and actively addressing them.
Emily
2024-11-07 12:13:26 +0000 UTCFun fact: she already is
Chris Conley
2024-11-07 11:29:32 +0000 UTCThe most *optimistic* take I have for what happened is Trump in 2024 rode a global wave of anti incumbent sentiment. It toppled the UK's conservative government, it's about to topple the center left in German, and it cost the ANC their majority in South Africa for the first time since SA has been a true democracy, and it nearly, potentially may still topple the Japanese LDP
ToddTheOdd
2024-11-07 01:06:37 +0000 UTCAnd note that I'm not selling anything. Just offering an idea and maybe a little hope for some day in the future.
Timothy High
2024-11-06 23:43:12 +0000 UTCHi Thomas. I've been avoiding any media at all until I just turned on this episode. You said you wished people could get "real reality" to break through to more people. I actually have a proposal. If you could give me 5 minutes on a call, it might be worth some food for thought.
Timothy High
2024-11-06 23:41:21 +0000 UTCHi Matt, Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I love everything you bring to the show, and appreciate so deeply your insight. I'm so thankful for the show, if nothing else it gives me something to look forward to. Thank you so much.
Wishing every Clarence Thomas a very God rest his soul
2024-11-06 22:01:46 +0000 UTCOne side thought the terms were "we pick the candidate with the best policies and who is a grownup"; to the other side it's "we pick the one who wins this political MMA fight". I truly think it's as simple as that and that's why I think AOC could win when she's old enough
Bald Weasels Scrotal Manscaping
2024-11-06 19:52:56 +0000 UTCI know I am working through grief, and I am digging anywhere that looks friendly for some reassurance, but, knowing myself I do better in service to others. So that is to be my distraction, I just wanted to tell you all, you are loved, we will be stronger together. I am rambling, sorry, so to end I am here, standing, much more weakly, but standing none the less, and I will allow you to lean on me until I cannot stand anymore.
Autistic Dilettante
2024-11-06 19:51:43 +0000 UTCI completely agree. People just want electoral politics to be UFC or more appropriately, WWE. To play the game given the current meta the Dems would need to find a Bernadette Devlin or George Galloway (I mean before he went nuts), someone who knows that politics is a blood sport. They never will, but imagine if they did. We could all just admit that debates are "won" not by a solid grasp on reality and how best to deal with it, but by verbally smashing a chair over your opponent's head.
Bald Weasels Scrotal Manscaping
2024-11-06 19:46:14 +0000 UTCUnpopular opinion - Kamala lost this; she could have won, but bad strategy lost this. When she started she was a breath of fresh air. People didn’t want to vote trump or Joe. Joe never could have won this. Joe had to own the inflation, and the problem is when you fix inflation, the average voter doesn’t appreciate it is fixed because prices are still high. Kamala had to differentiate herself from Joe Kamala in the 60 minutes couldn’t. She said she wouldn’t do anything different. She stopped being an outside breath of fresh air to the continuity candidate - the electorate didn’t want continuity. If she was telling people what she would do differently it didn’t break through ; instead it was a repeat of 2016s character character character.l, trump trump trump. She was also probably listening to the UK labour party’s small target strategists - a strategy that didn’t really work even in the UK election as labours in power because the conservative vote split, labour didn’t increase their share. Character voters have been convinced since 2016. No need to convince them. Everyone who was persuadable but not a character voter was really left with no other choice. They didn’t like continuity, trump was change. And now they’re going to get it. I don’t think they’ll like it.
127dot0dot0dot1
2024-11-06 17:21:04 +0000 UTCThank you Matt, I want you to know you got through, and I know we are in the dark right now, we have to look to each other to find light because there isn't going to be much to be found I fear.
Autistic Dilettante
2024-11-06 17:05:46 +0000 UTCI hate to say it, but this was the inevitable result of how the Democrats ran this campaign. From continuing to run a candidate with astronomical unfavorability up to the twilight of the election, to saddling their campaigns with the people who paved the way for this political party a mere few weeks before the polls opened. And despite what everyone is saying, Trump didn't gain traction, the country didn't get more fascist. What happened is that Harris somehow bled millions of voters that Biden had somehow cinched in 2020. Is it because she's a woman? That's probably a part of it. But if having two X chromosomes is the only thing that costs you about 10% of your entire voting base from the previous election, then I think we're well within the realm of calling our country a failed state for equality. The post-mortem of this election is going to be one that the Democrats actually have to learn from, and I fear that they're going to eschew that in favor of just touting the 'business as usual' line they've been trying to play for the better part of four years.
Mr. Wilt
2024-11-06 16:59:31 +0000 UTCI think the ship has sailed on trying to have a rational conversation with people on the other side.
Jason Valasek
2024-11-06 16:59:15 +0000 UTCI really do think that's it at the end of the day. Basic media literacy, including how to evaluate your news sources, was a regular part of my public school education in the solidly middle-class suburbs of Vancouver, WA and I wonder if there is anything like that still being taught--or if it is even possible to teach it effectively in the age of TikTok. It is time for a serious reckoning as to what social media has done (and is doing) to our brains, our discernment, and our basic understandings of consensus reality.
Matt Cameron
2024-11-06 16:56:37 +0000 UTCI agree that we really need to do something about the disinformation networks that are making it possible for people to live in a world where voting for Trump seems like the rational choice. I grew up pretty conservative and before Trump, after I had moved left, I could still understand and articulate what people on the right were thinking. I can't do that anymore. It's so exhausting to try to keep up with all of the lies, but I think that's why it's so effective. We are overwhelmed with it. I also think it's worth bringing up that a lot of people voted for Trump, not because they're 100% in the Trump cult, but because they have been convinced that somehow the Democrats are worse. It doesn't matter if Trump lies because the Democrats are worse liars. It doesn't matter if Trump has sexually assaulted women because the Democrats sexually abuse and murder children even more! It doesn't matter if Trump has committed some crimes because the Democrats are weaponizing the justice system against him! There's nothing Trump can ever do that will be worse than what people will say the Democrats are doing. We can't beat this only by pointing out all of the bad things Trump does. We need to counter the narrative that the Democrats are the literal spawn of satan.
I have perspicaciously noted that JBP is a moron
2024-11-06 16:54:26 +0000 UTCThomas and Matt, thank you. Thank you for being there for each other and for us. Your raw thoughts were a deep comforting on a devastating morning. I would like to hear in a coming episode: in retrospect, what were some of the strongest legal tactics we used to resist and stop the worst efforts of the Trump admin and MAGA, and do any of them have any teeth left? I say this having been an extremely active protester during those four horrible years and being acutely aware that SOTU will be gone, Jack Smith will be gone, crackdowns on protests and the media are likely, I feel like I know a world of things about this and I want to hear your perspective on the chance and longevity for anything we can do to fight.
M. D. Nova
2024-11-06 16:53:30 +0000 UTCSome are blaming Kamala's campaign, or Joe for running a second time, or Fox. I blame 40+ years of decreasing education standards that has left half the country unable to think critically, logically or practically.
Rae
2024-11-06 16:45:10 +0000 UTCBiden’s remaining two months needs to be full of executive orders creating blockades that they have to dismantle before they can affect any of their project 2025 wet dreams
I S
2024-11-06 16:31:16 +0000 UTCI absolutely loathe thinking like the maggots, but this election needs a recount in every state. There’s no way that this many of our fellow Americans are this fucking goddamn racist bigoted and stupid is there is it possible?
I S
2024-11-06 16:29:54 +0000 UTCNo one asked, but my knee jerk reaction beyond "Mysogony sucks" is that many liberals simply will not activate unless they are in opposition to power. Something about that narrative is important to part of the voting base that we need. The same people who will get out to remove Trump from power will not come out to keep him from getting power again. Is there anything that can be learned from that? A caution we can have in the future? An optimism we can find for the midterms and beyond? Can we afford to be bolder when we are running against the party in power?
Jon C
2024-11-06 15:03:44 +0000 UTCI find this focus on the trifecta weird. I thought it was OA canon that having a trifecta didn't let you actually pass laws your voters like. One of the things I've learned from this show is that we only need 41 seats in the Senate to water down everything the other side does.
Drew Vogel
2024-11-06 14:47:34 +0000 UTCDevastated..Thank you for sharing and putting into words what so many of us are feeling this morning.
Laura N
2024-11-06 14:44:11 +0000 UTCI understand how you feel. But I struggle. Because so many people fought so hard for 8 years to prevent the leopards from eating everyone. And the result is that none of them have realized what they barely avoided So frustrating. Upending everyone’s life like this
Alex Recuenco
2024-11-06 14:35:43 +0000 UTCFOX NEWS DID THIS. It's simple. The most popular voice is the one followed. Biblically accurate sheep being led into the mouth of a Fox. It's Pheasant Fiction, tickling the ears of their prey to lure them into traps.
MajorMinorGolf
2024-11-06 14:32:12 +0000 UTCWhen Macron visited New Orleans last year, I seriously wanted to ask him to buy us back! Imagine if there was a little piece of the EU in the deep south.
Cilantro
2024-11-06 14:27:48 +0000 UTCNow we know that the majority of Americans are stupid, evil, or both. I’m so sad. This feels like an extinction level event for humanity. Poor Ukraine. Poor innocent immigrants in the US and their families. They will only be the first.
Cilantro
2024-11-06 14:26:15 +0000 UTCMakhnovism perhaps.
bouteilles de vin et polystyrène
2024-11-06 14:24:31 +0000 UTCHi everyone, just wanted to thank you all for sharing what you are feeling this morning. As you can hear, we are feeling it too. For as much as I think there was value in being in the moment last night, I got up this morning with the same feeling I did eight years ago. I am in mourning, but feeling a renewed resolve to understand and address the root causes of this cancer which has just metastasized throughout the US and to name and explain it all as it happens. We aren't going anywhere, and these responses are a welcome reminder that none of you are either. It is such a privilege to be able to talk to you all twice a week, and I am in awe every day of the OA community's collective and individual intelligence and compassion. We'll be back on Friday with new energy and a new commitment to meeting this moment. It's bad, but I have to believe that it can and will get better. (Literally, I have to believe this or I wouldn't have been able to get out of bed this morning.)
Matt Cameron
2024-11-06 14:21:45 +0000 UTCThank you for being the one part of my echo chamber that prepared me even slightly for this outcome. Devastating.
Jon C
2024-11-06 14:21:44 +0000 UTCI have two three year old nieces and I'm deeply disturbed by the thought that they'll grow up thinking whatever comes after this is normal
General Contact Unit Problem Child
2024-11-06 14:12:15 +0000 UTCThe vast propaganda networks (OANN,fox ,X,etc) have no guardrails on their rhetoric. None of this makes sense to people who consume actual information, but after almost 10 years of truly washing people's brains, this is your result. Consistency and logic aren't necessary when the emotions from culture war shit can be harnessed, especially in such a poorly educated, jingoist nation. Pretending the ongoing funding of the fourth Reich wasn't a big part of this is ludicrous liberal thinking though. Good news, the fascists taking over are the most inept, cowardly shits that have ever been. Create local mutual aid, create whatever safe spaces you can for those targeted, stockpile weapons if you are able, and be ready for the constitutional sheriff fuckery that's about to happen.
bouteilles de vin et polystyrène
2024-11-06 14:11:51 +0000 UTCI get that, and absolutely can't blame anyone for feeling that right now (or generally). I truly believe that truth, compassion, and joy will always win. Even today.
Matt Cameron
2024-11-06 14:00:37 +0000 UTCPlease do. I have a billion questions about it, including if it's really any better there in the long run. I'm in an interesting situation myself where I already work for an international company with operations in Canada. Most of the people I work with are in Toronto or Vancouver. Does this fact give me a lead in that process? I'm assuming I would need some kind of sponsorship. Seems like I could get one, maybe.
Unlikable Internet Goblin
2024-11-06 13:58:05 +0000 UTCI had actually already planned this one out while I was in Scotland over the summer. I was really hoping it would just be an episode idea we could keep in the pocket and never actually do but here we are. It doesn't feel right to even have to think about it and I want to encourage everyone to stay and do our part but I have also been working with asylum seekers for long enough to know that it is a lot to ask of regular people who are just looking out for their families. I'm sure we will be getting into this sometime soon, thank you for the suggestion
Matt Cameron
2024-11-06 13:54:52 +0000 UTCI had the same thought at 6ish this morning
Reese
2024-11-06 13:54:41 +0000 UTCYou are a real person, and for as much as I know it must feel like no one cares about your life and wellbeing right now you're in the right place because everyone reading this absolutely does and each of us represents so many more people we care about who do too. I'm saying this just as much for myself as for you this morning, but we can and will get through this.
Matt Cameron
2024-11-06 13:50:45 +0000 UTCHeard the news at 5am UK and lay staring into the dark. Just fucked to think they have everything and the popular vote... you can't actually deny his mandate. They knew and they did it. This is what people WANT. They are fucked in the head.
Fiasco!
2024-11-06 13:41:54 +0000 UTCYou say that but Russia in Poland, Baltic states or similar, potential collapse of EU project with Viktor Orban empowered. There are a lot of routes of it impinging into us and not on a short timescale. The world's policeman just went pretty max corrupt
Fiasco!
2024-11-06 13:38:50 +0000 UTCI’m in Wisconsin. There’s no way this state can manage without undocumented labor - dairy and other farming are reliant on immigrants. And farm subsidies. And social security. I expect to see the state struggle.
Katie Byrum
2024-11-06 13:23:40 +0000 UTCShort answer is literally nothing. The law doesn’t matter anymore.
Leon
2024-11-06 13:13:42 +0000 UTCOr Panama/Costa Rica/Portugal
Navi Girl
2024-11-06 12:53:34 +0000 UTCHeartbroken for our kids and grandkids. Thanks for sounding like I feel. Love and hope from an old lady who apparently hasn’t seen it all yet.
Rae
2024-11-06 12:53:14 +0000 UTCI just feel broken this morning. I'm a 50 year old white woman. For all my life, I thought that there were more people in the world that were compassionate and good than not. I'm not pleased to have hard evidence to the contrary.
Totally A Real Human Person
2024-11-06 12:37:57 +0000 UTCDistraught. I'm a CIS white gay male privileged boomer so I'll get by. I'm most worried about my trans nephew and the future for my nieces and all of gen z. After fighting hard for gay rights and AIDS research in the 80's, I'm just tired... All I can do is continue to help as much as I can the people that are most affected by this disaster.
Robert Fournier
2024-11-06 11:54:19 +0000 UTCThank you, guys
Mary Geier
2024-11-06 11:48:20 +0000 UTCI don't know what to do now, I am now not a real person because I am gay and I don't like to grade this but right now the thing that scares me the most is that I am pretty damned autistic to boot. I am not able to work and I know this is selfish but I am scared that I won't have healthcare coverage or any way to get food, seriously I am truly in a panic and I am not sure what to do now. I don't think I survive the next 4 years, honestly!
Autistic Dilettante
2024-11-06 10:35:01 +0000 UTCHere too, Gloucestershire!
Donna W (uk listener)
2024-11-06 09:51:55 +0000 UTCIn UK English, this is munted. It's balls. It's bullshit. Try city-states... Like full on Italian Renaissance style city states, but federated or something. Offering asylum to those fleeing from the beplagued countryside of all neighbours. Then expand back out from there 🤷 I'm only partly not serious
Bald Weasels Scrotal Manscaping
2024-11-06 09:13:17 +0000 UTCthis. but further south. fuck.
lauren
2024-11-06 09:08:17 +0000 UTCCan we get an episode on how to emigrate to Canada?
Unlikable Internet Goblin
2024-11-06 08:59:26 +0000 UTCIt's been difficult to watch the result this morning from here in Scotland, even though it doesn't affect us directly (yet). I wish everyone in the US the best, despite the result.
Dominic Watkins
2024-11-06 08:22:25 +0000 UTCI also don't wish the best to people who voted for trump, either.
SpunRightRound
2024-11-06 07:58:54 +0000 UTCYeah you arent crazy, they told us their intentions. The thing that vexes me is that apparently lots of people listened and liked them. I'm tired of doing mental gymnastics, telling myself I'm too pessimistic. This is absolutely terrifying.
Jess C
2024-11-06 07:30:07 +0000 UTCMatt, I don't wish everyone who voted for Trump the best. That would have been my position if Harris had won, but after they successfully handed Trump the keys to the kingdom, I want the leopards to eat their fucking faces this time.
Graydon Armstrong
2024-11-06 07:23:38 +0000 UTCI needed to hear this too. I'm in Louisiana and have few people (other than my brother) to talk to about this, and all the podcasters I wanna hear from seem to have abandoned Twitter (don't blame them at all) but that kept me sort of sane in 2020 before the final results.
Grant Cosper
2024-11-06 07:17:42 +0000 UTCI'm not American, I live in the UK. I feel absolutely dreadful so I cannot imagine what the average Democrat feels like in the US. 2016 with Brexit and Trump was horrific, this feels worse.
LittlestLass
2024-11-06 07:17:16 +0000 UTCI love I King County, Washington. Home to Seattle, and nearly 50% of these offices are vacant. I imagine those numbers track in all sorts of "blue" areas, and are significantly higher in 'red" areas. PCOs are your neighbors, the people you know that knock on your doors and remind you to vote. When we cede the importance of talking to our neighbors, we cede elections, PERIOD.
SpunRightRound
2024-11-06 07:02:43 +0000 UTCI'm sorry. There isn't really much to say. It's devastating.
Graydon Armstrong
2024-11-06 06:59:39 +0000 UTCThe best thing you can do is get active at the local level. Every precinct has a Precinct Committee Officer. Those are elected on a party basis (repub and democrat). Those folks chose the leadership of their local dem organizations as well as vote for replacements when elected resign mid-term from other offices.l, as well as voting on endorsements of local elected officials. In my state/county, 46% of these positions are EMPTY, which leaves a lot of decisions making in the hands of people who are out of touch with the general population. Join your local Dem party organization. Run for PCO (or school board or whatever). Vote. Endorse. Strengthen democracy (and Democrats!!) at your local level. These are the places we can take control locally and snowball that higher. *Edited for spelling errors
SpunRightRound
2024-11-06 06:49:22 +0000 UTCMy profession requires more investigation of my life and my guarantees than most professions do and I am EXCEEDINGLY sick to my stomach tonight. What happened last time under this former guy was horrible. What he will do this time may be irreversible. When the country you pledge allegiance and loyalty to breaks allegiance and loyalty to the people — how to square that circle?
Donna Treadaway
2024-11-06 06:46:57 +0000 UTCRight now, I feel like rounding the wagons. But we should build our own communities and/or reinforce them. Rely on the government as little as possible, as Matt warned prior. Visit and volunteer/work+stay on farms! Run for office? I’m pretty scared about what’s to come, but I believe in community. And food. This is not a cult message.
Status Quo Level Thing
2024-11-06 06:45:19 +0000 UTCI will never fucking understand this shit. Thanks for putting out this episode. It was nice to hear you guys process it as I am processing it. Fuck!
Hausdorff
2024-11-06 06:40:45 +0000 UTCFuck my life.
Status Quo Level Thing
2024-11-06 06:29:27 +0000 UTCThis feels awful. I feel sick for the people my office represents: past, present, and future. I feel, admittedly, sick for myself. I know, best case scenario and he loses, I will still be navigating nazis in my neighborhood outside of DC protesting. Worst case scenario, they'll be leading this country. I worry this is the last time any party puts a woman forward for president. I worry this is the last time there is anyone put forward for a presidential election in this country. I feel crazy for thinking these big, tumultuous thoughts. I feel crazy for believing they are accurate. They are reality. My passport is up to date, but there are folks and fights here I won't abandon. I just won't. It will never make sense, and focusing on what to do next feels best.
Katie Herrmann
2024-11-06 06:10:32 +0000 UTCI'm really glad to hear your voices. It's difficult to have an even worse day and be more scared than 2016. I don't know what it means and I guess I'm just really sorry for the U.S. and the rest of us. It feels like being swallowed up by the ground.
Jess C
2024-11-06 06:06:19 +0000 UTCOh gosh, I had an inkling this was going dreadfully wrong
Maria Kladaki
2024-11-06 06:02:02 +0000 UTCI'm so sorry for your country and the world.
Alastair Lichten
2024-11-06 05:55:18 +0000 UTCSo so so so so glad to have this. It's been a very hard night, and I'm happy to have other voices.
Wishing every Clarence Thomas a very God rest his soul
2024-11-06 05:54:38 +0000 UTCWhat can we do? What can we do? What is the best thing we can do to mitigate the damage that’s going to happen?
ForgottenWisdom
2024-11-06 05:54:17 +0000 UTC
