Rap on Trial
Added 2024-07-29 05:35:58 +0000 UTCOA1055
Charis Kubrin is a professor of criminology at University of California Irvine whose extensive analysis of rap lyrics has provided the basis for her expert testimony in cases around the U.S. in which an artist’s work has been used against them as criminal evidence. Professor Kubrin joins us to explain what brought her to this subject, the history of “rap on trial,” and her ongoing work with the defense bar to push back against this problematic and almost inevitably racist practice.
Charis E. Kubrin’s faculty bio at the UCI School of Social Ecology
Rap on Trial Legal Guide (2nd Edition), Jack Lerner & Charis Kubrin
Comments
Great show! Thank you for bringing is this content.
Lisa Redmond
2024-08-01 07:22:13 +0000 UTCMatt, Thank you for addressing my concern. I look forward to more analysis on the topic.
Antonio lee
2024-07-31 15:47:28 +0000 UTCYep, once he's settled after his Japan travels lol.
Lydia Smith
2024-07-31 15:39:18 +0000 UTCI just wanted to say that I would also like to get into the legal side a bit more but Prof. Kubrin is not a lawyer and wouldn't have been qualified to get into those questions. We wanted to bring her on to talk about her unusual work as an expert witness in these cases, and I thought it was interesting to hear about what she has learned in that capacity. But to your point I would still like to have her attorney co-author or someone else who could get into your questions (which I share) and other legal issues around this
Matt Cameron
2024-07-31 15:32:22 +0000 UTCFrom my understanding, this stuff all makes intuitive sense but this was an interview with someone who did the empirical analysis to substantiate claims made about culture/violence/crime in rap. Personally I find it really exciting that someone did the grunt work providing evidence for something like this. But I get that it might not seem super exciting to everyone lol
Jess C
2024-07-31 04:54:27 +0000 UTCI didn’t like this podcast much. I wish there was more information on the legal nuance. Admissibility, exceptions etc. Are all judges allowing this evidence? What did we hear in this podcast that isn’t general knowledge (coming from a black man)?
Antonio lee
2024-07-31 04:00:48 +0000 UTCI love hiphop so I thought I’d point out that you don’t have to listen to anything problematic if you like rap. There are so many artists making great rap that I can and do play around my kids. Do you like rap but hate misogyny? Have I got recommendations for you! I’m cutting this short because it was dangerously close to turning into a short book.
Jason the Beav
2024-07-30 13:44:17 +0000 UTCI appreciated how concise and direct this episode was, and for showing that progressives (actually, anyone with critical thinking skills) need to pay much more attention to what prosecutors are doing. Thomas, you mentioned your dislike of rhetorically calling politicians by dumb fake names, and used Hitler as an example, saying that it wouldn't have helped if people had used some cutesy dumb alternate name for him. I agree, but you might like to know that in fact, back in the day some people did exactly that. Adolf Hitler's father (first name "Alois") was born out of wedlock to a woman named Maria Schicklgruber. Five years later Maria S. married a man named Johann Hiedler. Alois grew up and married under the name Schicklgruber but then legally changed his last name to his stepfather's. It ended up being spelled "Hitler" on the official papers, however. Adolf was born years after this name change as the result of a years-long extramarital affair with a cousin who was working for Alois as a domestic servant. Thus throughout World War II and for a while afterward, including my childhood in the 1950s, some Americans (incorrectly) maintained that Adolf Hitler's "real" name had been Schicklgruber, and as if to expose a hypocrisy, called him that derisively, in cartoons, on the radio, and in opinion columns and "letters to the editor" in newspapers, which are somewhat analogous to social media postings of today. -- best regards
David in Brooklyn
2024-07-30 12:29:00 +0000 UTCReally enjoyed this guest for many reasons, including that we were apparently at UW in same year (me as undergrad). But as a social scientist myself who’s done the content analysis studies of the type Dr. Kubrin does, I enjoyed everything about her explanation of her work. Wish there was a law firm that needed a media studies researcher
Rachel J Larris
2024-07-30 04:28:59 +0000 UTCSkinny puppies is industrial
Oso Hermoso
2024-07-30 00:51:19 +0000 UTCKeep “He gagged me!” forever!!
Rae
2024-07-29 22:16:42 +0000 UTCIf you liked this discussion/topic and want more background on rap as art, common themes, role in culture, etc., check out "The Rap Yearbook" by Shea Serrano. (I went to call this "new," but is about ten years old now...yikes). The book picks one rap song from each year, 1979-2014, deconstructs it, and explains its importance based on events current to that time. From the Sugar Hill Gang's "Rapper's Delight" through Young Thug's "Lifestyle." Also, incredible illustrations and art.
Katie Herrmann
2024-07-29 21:01:54 +0000 UTCWhat about metal Cannibal Corpse and or even hard rock like rage against the machine why rap? Umm… I know, racism
Oso Hermoso
2024-07-29 20:30:59 +0000 UTCBingo.
David in Brooklyn
2024-07-29 18:48:29 +0000 UTCooh this topic makes me SO MAD! so you can introduce poetry and artifice to convict someone of alleged violence, but you can't introduce actual victims to show that hollywood producers and supreme court justices have a history of violent sexual crimes. fantastic show btw.
lauren
2024-07-29 09:24:46 +0000 UTCAs a social scientist married to a social scientist, I am not sure I've ever been so pleasantly surprised by an OA ep. I think I ascended to heaven hearing the methodology, lol. I paused the episode to go and read Kubrin's content analysis and it was great 🥲 I see there's a subsequent content analysis on gender in rap and that looks really interesting too. Thanks Thomas, Matt and Charis.... this focus on intersections of law and culture are so interesting. Love the questions raised around the ethics of using lyrics as evidence. It certainly feels like a different set of rules to rappers and it's impossible for me not to see it as a racial thing...
Jess C
2024-07-29 06:33:29 +0000 UTC
