You Don't Know Your Own Mind!

SUGGESTION - On another note, I had an idea for the entrance into the game: Maybe Alice wakes up one night and sees Shadow Alice standing in the doorway of her room and sees that she has her White Rabbit doll in her arms and she chases her to get it back and as she chases her through the halls, she transitions into wonderland? Alice wakes up to find Shadow Alice standing in the doorway of her room, holding her White Rabbit doll, and Alice tries to grab the bunny from her, but when she does Shadow Alice vanishes into shadows and Alice falls through the door and down the rabbit hole. Alice hits the bottom and momentarily blacks out. When she is lying on the ground, she blinks a few times and her vision is blurred (camera view is sideways?). She sees Shadow Alice's shoes in her vision, then Shadow Alice running off into Wonderland, then she sees the feet of the White Rabbit, then she fully wakes up. During the time she is blinking, she first hears Shadow Alice calling her name but this then transitions into the White Rabbit calling her name.

I really like the blurred Alice in Omri's design. I don't know how I feel about the Queen of Hearts/Red Queen scenario.

Honestly, this whole idea with the Lizzie chaos and Trickster Alice becoming the Red Queen sounds like a mess, but it might be because it's not fleshed out yet. SUGGESTION: Maybe a Lizzie-themed detrimental force in Wonderland could be something that's foreshadowed in the early parts of the game and culminates later as the chaos storm that throws the two kingdoms into turmoil. For example, I envision a small, former possession of Lizzie's falling into Alice's possession in the real world and manifesting in Wonderland as a burning, dark seed Alice is tasked with carrying somewhere to be quenched, but she fails because she couldn't bear the heat for long enough. (Maybe Trickster Alice pushes her toward this failure?) We then see it slowly sprouting into something awful in the backgrounds of levels or swallowing things, growing, and spewing out this lava and smoke like a malignant katamari. Once it gets big enough, it starts to destroy both the Chess and Cards kingdoms. Along comes Trickster Alice to pit each of the red Queens against each other by making them think the Lizzie maelstrom is an attack launched by the other kingdom. The Queen of Hearts wins because the White Queen in Chessland kept Convincing the Red Queen to show mercy and focus on protecting their subjects instead of fighting. Lizzie's role as a source of pain in Wonderland would be Alice's pain of grief in loss and her inability to handle it, pushing it away, where it festers and grows. If we really want Trickster Alice to be the future Red Queen, she could consume and supplant the Queen of Hearts after the red Chess Queen is defeated and executed. Perhaps then, this new Queen of Hearts impostor and Alice deal with the Lizzie storm together, whereupon the Queen of Hearts (Trickster Alice) attempts to consume its source, but is beaten to it by the other Dark Alice. A fight between the two villains ensues that destroys and distorts Wonderland further and the player is stuck in the middle of it, trying to survive and make sure that whomever comes out of it is weak enough for Alice to defeat. Eventually, one wins and consumes the other, after which Alice is targeted and engages in a fight with a final stage that doesn't end until the player is defeated. Ultimately, this would consolidate a lot of the sources of trauma into a single target that is much easier to understand and predict from Alice's perspective and paves the way for the state of Wonderland in AMA. I like the idea that there could be many small plots and angles going on in the beginning and middle of the game, which creates the sense of chaos we should feel as we explore the mind of this newly broken child. This would also give the game significant replay value as one might be inclined to run through the game multiple times, looking for more clues as to what is going on behind the scenes on our adventure. By the end, there should be a sense that our actions have made an impact on the world by putting it into a state that may still look bad on the surface, but is at least manageable. From multiple, simultaneous disasters and threats, to a single antagonist Alice can put a face (or three) to. This is a re-post of a comment I made previously that seems to be missing now. If it was deleted for a reason, please let me know why so I don't make the same mistake again.

Jay Olsen

I definitely dig the concept posed. Not only do I really like the thought of Alice's shadow torturing Alice by appearing as Lizzy and the Hatter but I really like the thought of the shadow's true form being monstrous.

Velvet Divine

I would love to see that the Trixter's true form (the big tentacle thing) would be revealed once Alice has conquered her guilt and act as one of the bosses as Alice explored her negative emotions. Until she does, the Trixter takes on the Lizzie appearance when confronting Alice in order to strengthen Alice's guilt.

Awesome!!💀

I’d love to see Lizzie and her becoming more demented with each encounter until we finally see the beast from the original game. I imagine since this will be a prequel to the first game it would only make sense for the gave to focus more on narrative and backstories for everything we already have seen. I like the chaos idea and the destruction of wonderland but at the same time it’s already been done with madness returns?

I'd love if she looked like lizzy sometimes! That would really play well into her guilt!

Don't know if this has ever been implemented in a game or suggested already or even remotely practical, but how about your in-game playing strategy being constantly analysed so that the shadow is able to always counter you intuitively, unless you change your style. I can imagine how this might breaks things though; like telling a computer that everything you say to it is a lie

I like Omris' idea of Shadow Alice being a trickster and deceiver. Living with mental health issues, it does feel like your brain is trying to fuck you over, from time to time, so it makes sense. Shadow Alice taking on the appearances of the Hatter could be a cause for some confusion, which we need to either avoid, address in someway or make good use of. If the player is to really see and feel Alices' perspective, this is something could be used to confuse the player too and enhance the feeling of "something's not right". Of the designs Omri send, I prefer the blurry version. It looks most like Alice as we know her, but the blurriness is uncomfortable in just the right way; we will always seek something tangible, and her refusal to be "substantial"is also denying us the safety of having something to hold on to, when everything is confusing and scary. The progression of the necklaces and the overall story through the games makes sense, both in the context of this and also with my own experiences of overcoming trauma. It is doing honor to both our Alice and her story, but also to us who connected with her through our own struggles (at least it does for me, very much so). Unsure about casting Lizzie in this role. It has potential, but I'm not completely sold on the idea and can't really imagine it yet, but it's certainly something that could/should be explored a bit more in detail. SUGGESTION: In the final battle, Alice could take on not only Shadow Alice, but all of her forms. In the end, Alice realizes that she can't defeat Shadow Alice (at this point Shadow Alice is seen as her "normal" shadowy self). They fight and when Alices health gets to a certain point (or some a certain amount of time has passed, or something else), a cut scene appears to show Shadow Alice looking down at our Alice, bending down to tell her that she can't defeat her. Alice agrees, then quickly grabs Shadow Alices necklace, rips it of her and put's it on herself and thus trapping Shadow Alice in herself. I imagine Shadow Alice wearing the Chaos necklace and that could be the source of her power, so by putting on the Chaos necklace, our Alice is embracing the chaos as a true and necessary part of herself. (I hope I described this well enough. In my minds eye it looks so clear and epic and awesome). SORRY FOR LONG POST!

Alright, first about the Shadow Alice, i really like the idea in here, the connection with AMA is great! And also i think she should be kind of standing out from the others wonderland creatures in a visual way, i like the concept of blur, mb even add some static in there, as like she's sort of wicked twisted reflection and, as she gains power and eventually become the ruler, she shifts from being sort of a "ghost" to a full plague. There can even be idea that the stronger she is - the more "physical" in the world she becomes, or using this as a small hint when she is pretending to be someone else in some parts of the game or cutscenes, ohhh i'm excited! About Lizzie the problem is that she doesn't appear in AMA, so basically she can be almost anything in this game, but probably she should disappear at the end just to connect some story (idk i can't do words properly). Mb she also should connect with Shadow Alice in some case just to lead to the third game?..Lizzie can even be "consumed" by her. Also i think there can be a bit of inspiration to take from the first TEW antagonist on the topic of Shadow Alice.

Beautifully horrifying! I love it! This is the feeling I craved So much in AMR and now I can look forward to an IV drip of it.

So does the story starts immediately after the incident? One of my favorite parts of AMR was the real world sections and the transitions into madnesses... I wonder if we could potentially play Alice during the fire, after which she would immediately fall into denial transitioning from the real world into the wonderland gradually, as she is being brought into the asylum or running away at the first opportunity in the real world, where she would give a significant reason for people to put her into the Asylum (killing someone perhaps? Self-defense?). I still believe that the majority of the game should be happening while she's in the Asylum, but I believe this would give a really strong opening for the game and flow into real world sections during the years spent in the Asylum.

SUGGESTION: I like the idea of Lizzie ruling Wonderland peacefully before something 'corrupts' her and starts turning Wonderland into the warped zone from 'AMA,' no longer so much a refuge for Alice from the bad things in the real world. The corrupting agent could be represented in Wonderland with Shadow Alice, but also represent Alice's guilt for knowing what was being done to her and doing nothing, and thus she's guilted into feeling like an accomplice for the actual villain, who uses this guilt later to keep Alice on his side. It makes sense for the villain in Wonderland to wear Alice's face since she feels guilty for surviving what happened to her family. This can also be used with my earlier suggestion that the player alternate between controlling Alice and Shadow Alice, although without any signal or flag from the game that this is what's happening. Shadow Alice could handle the early combat especially, and lure Alice into performing more violence on Wonderland and its denizens. If Shadow Alice is an Agent of Chaos, then her goal wouldn't be straight-out destruction, but constant and random, entertaining changes. She might help one person and harm another just because doing so was interesting. Sort of like a video game player. I also believe that any time Shadow Alice shows herself to Alice, she should appear as Lizzie or another person Alice trusts. But this is tricky because Alice knows in her heart Lizzie and her parents are dead, so the more cognizant of this fact Alice is at different stages of the game, the faster Shadow Alice's appearance as her family members might be likely to drive up Alice's Insanity Meter -- so Shadow Alice might start appearing as denizens of Wonderland to Alice. In which case Shadow Alice had best do her best not to appear as someone Alice was already talking to, right? If Alice ever glimpses Shadow Alice in her natural form, it might be out of the corner of her eye, as with 7-Year-Old Alice / Malice.

"Suffering from, coping with, and overcoming PTSD doesn't "end" with a cure, sudden fanfare, prize ceremony, and moving on with one's life. The treatment and "cure" are an ongoing process which can take years. Some argue there is no ultimate cure but that management of the symptoms can improve a person's relationship with the trauma to the point of integration such that a new normal is achieved" Rephrase it a little bit and it sounds like something the cat would say. question: should I see the shadow alice as a sort evil twin thing where the creatures of wonderland confuse the two of them or is it clear to them that its someone else? If they are confused, other than the obvious "your own worse enemy" idea, does that mean Alice could be seen as the enemy of wonderland? Somebody tell me if what I'm saying makes no sense

I really like the idea with Shadow Alice becoming the new queen by killing the Red Queens and Ash-Lizzie! This would explain why there is only one red queen in AMA and just sounds like an original origin story!

Yes, this is what I understand of the shadow Alice. The "hidden me" of Alice's psyche that evolves trough the game and "contaminates" all wonderland with her tentacles like a disease. And I'm starting to think that the final form of her is the last boss of AMA...

all sounds very nice

It sounds like we've gotten to a solution of the issue of how the Red Queen and Queen of Hearts become one and the same...through some act of Shadow Alice, the two are fused together (presumably painfully and against their wills), and then left to watch over a burned dying realm, and if she never learns it was Shadow Alice who did it, it would explain her hatred of Alice in "AMA". My one issue with Shadow Alice having tentacles is that, at least to me, they are emblematic of the Red Queen of Hearts, and as a SUGGESTION, I think someone as potentially important to the story as this new villain deserves their own visual language and style, distinct from pre-existing villains.

Suggestion: I personally prefer the concept of the Shadow be a Lookalike-Alice as her 'main form'. Perhaps she has the ability to change into other characters temporarily (like Lizzie), as a means of torturing our protagonist? On the topic of appearance - maybe she starts off looking more modest and less threatening, but as she causes more chaos she becomes more disturbing and tentacle-y.

Interesting stuff, I suppose shadow Alice rubbing around starting trouble wouldn't be very convincing to the others of she didn't look a good deal like Alice. The written is a lot more fleshy and wet looking with all that blood. Can't wait to see that sample plush rabbit!

Narrative: on point. Lizzie: into it. Shadow Alice killing all the queens and becoming the ruler to fight: take my money.

Sarah Heist

Wow all this is looking and sounding so great. I really like the blur affect on shadow Alice, it's very creepy. I'm always so impressed with your team's ability to come up with really great concepts. The arena pouring down lava and damaging parts of Wonderland is just fantastic. Keep up the good work guys!

Suggestion: maybe if shes a trickster and born from the trauma of fire. She look similar to Alice or lizzie but always shrouded in smoke and you never get a good look at her until the end. The smoke is obviously derived from the fire. Oh or maybe she looks like lizzie or Alice and can look like anyone, but if she does use fire its self destructive and slowly turns her to ash as smoke billows from her body. Another way to push Alice because shes literally watching lizzie burn to death.

Chance Houston

I like the idea of shadow alice looking more like alice. Also the ability to look like other characters (hatter etc..) but when she looks like the other characters, maybe the omega symbol is still there. She can try to appear like others, but part of her is still her. And Alice could Identify that way.