166 - Wicked
Added 2024-11-27 07:00:21 +0000 UTCThe lads grab their broomsticks and defy gravity as they cover Stephen Schwartz and Winnie Holzman’s megahit musical: Wicked. Topics include the twisted mind of Gregory Maguire, the highs and lows of Stephen Schwartz, and how to reckon with a show that is simultaneously trying to tackle the horrors of fascism and the inherent melodrama of wanting to kiss a hot Winkie.
Media Referenced in this Episode:
Wicked. Book by Winnie Holzman, Music and Lyrics by Stephen Schwartz. Dir. Joe Montello. 2003.
Wicked: The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West by Gregory Maguire. ReganBooks. 1995.
Before 'Wicked' was a smash, it was stumbling in San Francisco by Jenny Singer. The San Francisco Standard. November 23rd, 2024.
“Gregory Maguire on Wickedness Post-Bush” by Erika Milvy. Clamour. February 27th, 2009.
“John Bucchino and the Origins of Wicked the Broadway Musical”
Still Popular: Chenoweth and Menzel Talk ‘Wicked’ by Jackson McHenry. Vulture. October 24th, 2023.
“THEATER REVIEW; There’s Trouble in Emerald City” by Ben Brantley. NYTimes. October 31st, 2003.
“Wicked Review” by Charles Isherwood. Variety. October 30th, 2003.
“Wicked Review” by David Finkle. Theatremania. October 30th, 2003.
TWOAPW theme by Brendan Dalton: Patreon // brendan-dalton.com // brendandalton.bandcamp.com
Interstitial: “Baritone” // Music by Stephen Schwartz // Lyrics by Dr. Samuel Bultch, D.D.S. // Featuring Dr. Samuel Bultch, D.D.S. as “Dr. Samuel Bultch, D.D.S.” and David Armstrong as “Stephen Schwartz”.
Comments
Josh describing how he didn't get into Wicked in high school having way more to do with the people who were really into it being super annoying speaks directly to my experience. Having finally seen it, I've lost count of how many times I've explained to college and post-college friends that despite being super into theater and musicals back then, I just never cared for Wicked.
Roland
2025-09-10 01:02:39 +0000 UTCRelistening to this and this time around I caught the Luck of the Irish reference at 06:25! When the heck are we getting an episode on THAT?? It might legitimately be a fascinating movie to discuss in how it depicts American identity, especially American white identity.
Hazel Rafter
2025-05-19 20:56:06 +0000 UTCIn Boston, they call this show Very.
murt pie
2024-12-20 02:21:44 +0000 UTCRe: Nessa’s only personality trait being having a disability. I just realize that you may be right, but also, I’m in a wheelchair and when I saw this, at 16, I was so excited to see a person in a wheelchair in a musical that didn’t even care that the actress wasn’t actually in a wheelchair or that she kind of turns evil. I guess that’s how desperate Disabilty representation. I am glad that Marissa Bode the movie is actually in a wheelchair and support fully accessible Shiz and Oz! It made the part of me that’s s still 16 happy to see her go out dancing in the Ozdust Ballroom
Elizabeth Power
2024-12-04 02:05:11 +0000 UTCI like wicked, but probably not as much as everyone I know thinks I do. I met Idina Menzel after seeing her concert when I was a senior in high school and almost lost my mind with excitement. She was extremely nice and gracious. Please do Wizard of Oz episode, when I was a kid, I watched the movie so many times I think I memorized it.
Elizabeth Power
2024-12-04 01:21:25 +0000 UTCInteresting to hear about multiple forensics. I used to do dramatic interp. When I did it, there were never more than two people in one piece, which was called duo. Being allowed to have more than two people and slightly more time sounds interesting and chaotic! I remember two girls doing a duo of Wicked and thinking it was weird because they recited some of the lyrics of the songs that I knew rather than singing. My coach said it was too confusing if you did not know Wicked. On the other hand, I also remember two guys doing a duo interp where they basically did the Booth/Oswald scene from the end of Assassins. That was my first exposure to that show and I was hooked.
Elizabeth Power
2024-12-04 01:08:13 +0000 UTC"Flossing Through Life"
Kyle Cassidy
2024-12-02 14:29:50 +0000 UTCI wonder if Avatar: Legend of Korra was the inflection point for Western animation and explicit lesbianism? (Longer and more complicated story with anime, I think. E.g., a lot of millennial weebs got their first taste of anime with Project A-ko in the early 90s, which was already parodying "sapphic schoolgirl" romances like the one implied by the first act of Wicked.)
Kyle Cassidy
2024-12-02 14:16:31 +0000 UTCThe city you're thinking of? Fall River, Mass
BarFly
2024-12-02 11:58:47 +0000 UTCReally want to hear Samuel Bultch D.D.S. write a song about Defying Cavities or some shit
Ethan Ness
2024-12-01 16:24:48 +0000 UTCI literally spit out my drink when I heard the “Gettin the band back together” reference
Ethan Ness
2024-12-01 01:15:27 +0000 UTCWhen I used to work at one of Salem MA's many witch trials & witchcraft museums, the one i was at had a secondary exhibit (the first one was all the stuff that happened in 1692) about the concept of a witch through the ages, from the distant past to present pop culture. One of our talking points was about how the '39 film cemented the idea of a green witch in a black pointy hat in every American brain. And when we had to explain why the witch was green in the film when she wasn't in the book, we were told, "they made that decision because it would really pop in technicolor." At the time, that confused me, because it seemed like too simple an explanation. But when you guys explained the actual process by which films were colorized in technicolor, and how it literally looked different from how color films look today due to the actual technology behind it, it made complete sense to me why they would so drastically change the colors of the witch and the shoes - to the point where I'm retroactively a little pissed at our education directors for not clarifying for me! Like, if I were a guest at our museum being told "the green looked better in technicolor", my follow-up would be "why?" and I never had that answer until now. So thanks!
Peter Paul Rubens' Muse
2024-11-30 03:19:38 +0000 UTCIt's about time someone called attention to Legasse's apotheid state
Nathan Woods
2024-11-29 00:06:03 +0000 UTCAbsolute banger from Dr Bultch this week, the best of his songs I’ve heard so far.
Max
2024-11-28 17:40:19 +0000 UTCi appreciated The Amirable Crichton joke, Brian
Nemo
2024-11-28 11:33:43 +0000 UTCinterstitial preamble can still get you pregnant
Nemo
2024-11-28 11:33:08 +0000 UTCI read the book of Wicked WAY too young (I was about 10) because it had been put into the 9-12 section of the bookstore so once again I think nobody had actually read it. I read the whole thing because I refused at the time to stop reading a book I'd started. Mostly I was just very confused lmao.
SuzyLee
2024-11-28 09:55:42 +0000 UTCWicked in 2024 exists in such a weird place in terms of lesbian relationships depicted in media. Big budget animated shows (She-Ra, Mobile Suit Gundam: The Witch from Mercury) have been able to get away with gay relationships between women that are just as emotional and far more textual than even the Wicked book. For an even more direct comparison, Netflix just dropped about the same amount of money that the two Wicked movies will cost on making Arcane (~$300m vs ~$250m) which is something adapted from a far worse source, bad video game League of Legends. But guess which one has two main characters fall in love and actually have an extremely non-subtextual (and by the end of the show, very sexual) lesbian relationship?
Relkia
2024-11-28 03:25:34 +0000 UTCWe'll, I guess the Scarecrows intro song is now going to be "If I only had a cock..."
Busy Mason
2024-11-28 01:44:56 +0000 UTCThat discussion before the interstitial, it truly is the arguing season! Thanks for doing another musical. They’re some of my favorite episodes; you’ve honestly converted me into a big theatre fan.
Luckie
2024-11-28 00:46:30 +0000 UTCMarvelous Land and Ozma, the only other two i read, didn’t trans me as a 10 year old, but twenty-ish years later I have done a reverse Tip.
Three Memes in a Trenchcoat
2024-11-27 23:44:46 +0000 UTCOh same, I didn't actually see it until that 2019 production, so for the 16-ish years leading up to it I didn't really KNOW the plot, and just crafted my own vibes-based narrative around my favorite songs (What Is This Feeling, Popular, and Defying Gravity, respectively) which coincidentally carry the most queer subtext. (For Good probably would've been in the rotation too if not for the fact that unfortunately it's an Act 2 song and young me was only interested in Act 1 songs). Sample bias or something!
Ms. Charlie
2024-11-27 22:33:55 +0000 UTCThe Marvelous Land of Oz turned me trans as a kid
Paula Sulpice
2024-11-27 21:28:16 +0000 UTCYeah, I think for all the hosts (understandably) call it a super straight musical the cast recording was one of those first little queer cultural touchstones for me and some of my peers (all women, I think, though . . .). ETA: thinking about it possibly this was also because we all had huge crushes on Idina Menzel. ETA part 2: Another part of this was that me & my friends very much experienced it through the album—I think the first of us saw it fully years after being immersed in the CD—so we were not engaging with a lot of the plot back-and-forth that’s actually on the stage
Heather
2024-11-27 20:17:54 +0000 UTCI read a ton of those L Frank Baum and later book sequels as a kid and let me tell you, they get weird
Heather
2024-11-27 19:44:28 +0000 UTCAs a high school baritone I feel you Dr Bultch
Skelecopter
2024-11-27 19:20:17 +0000 UTCI did not know until finishing this episode how the Wicked musical ended and Wow I don't like it
Lenny
2024-11-27 19:03:33 +0000 UTCIf you guys do the Hannibal series I am forcing myself into the episode as one of the owners of the very limited edition production art book AND as someone who is mutuals with the show’s food designer
John Leavitt
2024-11-27 17:59:17 +0000 UTCI definitely agree that Wicked is WILDLY uneven in terms of quality. If the songs hit they HIT. But they don't ALWAYS hit. In the words of Archie Riverdale, it's the epic highs and lows [of wicked]. That said, I've always had a soft spot for the musical because as a queer woman the relationship between Elphaba and Glinda compels me. And, because I'm a huge baby, For Good DOES make me cry but I think it's more within the framework of "these women love each other and the narrative will NEVER let them be together but they've still been fundamentally changed by knowing each other even within the constraints of a very straight story." Which in turn I'd argue that the ending IS still a tragedy within that framework. Like Elphaba doesn't die, but she's separated from Glinda forever now and is in hiding with just Some Guy (sorry Fiyero. I find you uninteresting. It's not your fault). Anyway, it's not a perfect musical and it's not even necessarily good, but I did get the chance to see it on tour for my birthday in 2019, and that did sustain me emotionally. 🏳️🌈
Ms. Charlie
2024-11-27 17:47:04 +0000 UTCWould you guys ever consider looking at a Brian Fuller show btw? The talk of Kristin Chenoweth here made me think of Pushing Daisies and its very broadway heavy casting (which he often does, but I think that show had the most).
Amy Godliman
2024-11-27 17:45:47 +0000 UTCIts straddling the line like it owes it money
Josephine
2024-11-27 17:13:38 +0000 UTCI can't believe I'm an "interstitial preamble" guy now.
Dergon
2024-11-27 16:37:00 +0000 UTCDon't have a lot to add, it's not a musical I'm familiar with, and I don't really care a bout the movie. Podcast was nice to listen to.
Peter Larkin
2024-11-27 16:32:04 +0000 UTCFine line between "ruined" and "enhanced".
Kyle Cassidy
2024-11-27 13:38:47 +0000 UTCI assumed the answer was “no” when you mentioned the sisters story includes getting her disability fixed, but the film is the first time that role has been played by a performer who uses a wheelchair. Maybe this is wishful thinking on my part, but if they had actually cast someone in the original run who used one, maybe the character might have been given some other personality traits. I guess now it’s been 20 years the story is somewhat ossified so those changes are less likely to make it to the film, but maybe she’ll get a different arc in part 2.
Amy Godliman
2024-11-27 12:57:33 +0000 UTCGenuinely I was watching diama recently and goku eats like a magic ration that counts as 2 meals per 1 ration, and he eats 2 and visibly like inflates. As soon as that happen my brain litterally went "HES JUST SO FULL" this podcast nearly ruined my enjoyment of dragonball
Josephine
2024-11-27 10:19:34 +0000 UTC"Oh please, Mr. Wizard sir. My friend Goku--he's just so full! Can't you help him?"
Kyle Cassidy
2024-11-27 07:43:46 +0000 UTC
