Mad Men 5x11 Reaction
Added 2026-01-14 18:44:44 +0000 UTC
Comments
Not in defense of Roger cuz he still messed up, but I think Pete tricked him into thinking that Joan was considering doing it, which made him back off… I think it is a great point that the writers should have made him go talk to Joan about it given how close they’ve been.
Mack
2026-02-13 18:11:16 +0000 UTCthis might be the show's writing peak. they're best when they center their alienation capitalism critique and lowkey did Joan do feminist praxis? certainly 'dissectable' in terms of how she had agency throughout the ordeal
on crip ...
2026-01-22 07:15:20 +0000 UTC<3
Robert
2026-01-16 01:52:52 +0000 UTCOh my god, it never even occured to me, that Lanes conversation with Joan, was about his financial problem. I don't know how I couldn't see it, it's so obvious. When I first watched this, I genuinely thought, he was just looking out for her best interests. (Putting aside the fact, her best interest would be not to have sex, with that gross pig)
Andrew
2026-01-15 22:35:14 +0000 UTCA grimy little pimp, one might say.
Andrew
2026-01-15 22:28:27 +0000 UTCEpisode 12 waiting room
Ryan
2026-01-15 19:47:18 +0000 UTCI understand. For me it’s Don’s sports jacket he wears to Pete and Trudy’s and the sunglasses he has on he first meets Suzanne.
Luis
2026-01-15 19:25:25 +0000 UTCOn a lighter note (no pun intended), I sometimes wish I was recording my own reactions to Mad Men just to see how many times in a season I instinctively say “oh my god, that lamp” outloud. I’m sorry, I’m so crazy about the set design and I keep bringing it up. The lamp I’ve been obsessed with the past season is the Laurel in Don’s office. Every time they get it in frame I am upset it’s not mine. https://www.mutualart.com/Artwork/LAUREL-LAMP-CO-Mid-Century-Sculptural-Ma/B6CB837B5D57A0FEC647518BE5692913
Jamie
2026-01-15 17:28:32 +0000 UTCLane *did* call Pete a "grimy little pimp" before punching him earlier this season. Pete was simply fulfilling the role given to him this episode.
Śéáń
2026-01-15 13:31:03 +0000 UTCThere's been a few comments on the Roger thing, from me included, but for me it would be one thing if this episode (the Joan storyline specifically) was meant to feel cathartic or victorious. But it isn't. The fact that we DON'T get that honest, emotional, meaningful conversation between Joan and Roger that we all hope will happen the moment the idea comes up, that Roger just gives up (after seasons of Joan telling him to leave her alone), is part of what creates the hollow sinking feeling that this episode is so memorable for. We want him to save her, to be that hero that we hope Don is when he goes to her house. But one hero fails and the other doesn't rise to the occasion, and all that's left is the brutal reality that Joan has to navigate. I don't know, it works for me but it's subjective at the end of the day so if you're disappointed that's unfortunate.
Kev
2026-01-15 11:21:02 +0000 UTCI was actually just thinking the other day that in 5x10's discussion, they didn't say anything about the Roger and Joan scene. Now I wonder if they forgot it, because I do think it's directly linked to this dilemma. It's literally a scene about giving Joan money so she can support her son, and she says no because she doesn't want the strings attached. Him saying he doesn't want to pay for it this episode is definitely related. The past two seasons have been Joan telling Roger to back off at every chance. So he finally does it. From the audience POV it hurts, but from Roger's POV Joan is the one who wants to do it; he doesn't even think she's conflicted. Let's use pattern recognition, I get that the actors have chemistry but the thematic dynamic of the two characters since the beginning has been Roger wanting to own her because he's unsatisfied, so I don't know why he would expect to be able to "convince" her or anything.
Kev
2026-01-15 11:10:54 +0000 UTCWhat it really said was, "I'll do ANYTHING, to take you away from Draper." How many vowels in that fucken guy's name? Him with his bugged out, coffee bag eye bags of his.
tilden katz
2026-01-15 11:00:44 +0000 UTCI love seeing you get passionate, tilden katz.
Kev
2026-01-15 10:39:14 +0000 UTCDid they miss that Ted also wrote "Copy chief" on the notepad for Peggy's offer?
Kev
2026-01-15 10:25:57 +0000 UTCIt's interesting that you say Don kissing Peggy's hand in their farewell scene is so perfect that you wonder how the writers came up with it, because apparently it was improvised by Jon Hamm. Supposedly the original intent was for him to grab and hold her hand until she physically pulled away.
Kev
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Kev
2026-01-15 09:48:32 +0000 UTCYeah, Pete very deviously presents it as if Joan's open to it. He's such a sneaky little villain all episode.
Sebastian
2026-01-15 09:03:51 +0000 UTCAnybody whose criticism of this episode is that, its too real, needs to take their head out of the toilet. The episode is a punch in the face. Joan's sexuality is literally thrown back in her face. This is what you are, and always have been, so take advantage of it. Her agency has been taken away, not because she can't say no. But because she can't control what her perception must be in the eyes of her soon to be partners. She can't be admired, not even respected. Just like it was that brutal night on Don's carpet. I'm surprised they didn't show her with that detached look in this episode, as back then. That look is the saddest thing I ever saw on Mad Men.
tilden katz
2026-01-15 03:52:27 +0000 UTCWell you can't say he didn't close the deal here.
Mike
2026-01-15 02:47:54 +0000 UTCNot the first (or last) time the show uses a pitch to mirror the story, but I think this is best combination of that & being genuinely incredible advertising copy since "This device isn't a spaceship. It's a time machine."
Mike
2026-01-15 02:13:48 +0000 UTCA wrecking ball of an episode. I think the main "criticism" of The Other Woman is that it's too didactic -- too constructed to tell this specific story. That characters act *a bit* out of character in service of a too pat message. And while I can understand if someone feels that way, for me, it's way too effective to care. First of all, this is just a punishing, tight fist of a story that jumps up out of nowhere (they only found out about the Jaguar pitch at the end of last episode, and here they're already days away from the presentation) and knocks you on your ass. And as it's own self-contained thing, it's brilliant. But as a kind of capstone for all of the "women in the workplace" stories the show has told so far, it goes way beyond being a brilliant individual episode and becomes the final evolution of what the show has been saying about women and and objectification. Putting aside the plot mechanics of the hideous "pimping out Joan" stuff from the SCDP partners, I think this story is also a fascinating exploration (and escalation) of Joan's own guiding principles in the workplace. She is not a career striver like Peggy -- and it's not that it isn't her style, it's that it isn't even in her conception of reality. As she confided in the previous episode, her mother raised her to be admired. Hell, in the very first episode of the series, she told Peggy that the dream for a secretary was to marry well and end up in a house in the country. Joan is introduced on the show as the only woman in the office who really understands "how things work", but that understanding has now been broken and remade several times across the series - - most pointedly when her "plan" to marry a doctor not only turns out to be... Greg... but also turns out *not* to be what she wants for her life. Well, this is the final evolution of that "raised to be admired" gilded cage. I am NOT saying that this is what she deserved, but it's a logical endpoint of how narrow her conception of her potential has been. That road has led her to this impossible choice -- a single mother, being divorced by her shit-heel absentee husband, asked to prostitute herself because a powerful man admired her. I don't blame her for making the choice, but it's striking to see her wrestling with how it feels like her *only* choice. It reminds me of a line from another television show, about another woman trapped in a terrible life by the only reality she understands: "You desire not to be free, but to make a window in the wall of your prison." All that being said, I think the actual pitch for Jaguar -- "At last. Something beautiful you can truly *own*." -- is the best example of the show marrying character/thematic storytelling with genuinely great advertising copy since... probably since the Kodak pitch in the Season One finale? It's such a brutal, razor sharp commentary on how the men have bought and sold Joan (and Peggy) (and Megan) (and the model crawling across the boardroom table) all episode, but goddamn, it also makes me want to buy a car. What else... It (understandably) gets a bit lost in the Joan and Peggy of it all, but Megan walking into that skeevy audition room and being asked to do a turn-around for the producers. I love how they crammed three of them onto that small couch. A perfect addition to the episode. Perhaps unsurprisingly, this episode was the official Emmy submission for all three of Jon Hamm, Elizabeth Moss, and Christina Hendricks this season. (All three lost, somehow!) Oh and yeah, The Kinks needle drop at the end absolutely rips.
Mike
2026-01-15 02:08:15 +0000 UTC"I'm sorry, but, you know this is what you would do"
Sid
2026-01-15 02:05:14 +0000 UTCI'm using all of my energy putting my foot down!
Jamie
2026-01-15 01:37:29 +0000 UTCHe's the MVP (Most Valuable Putz) of this season, by far. No one has moved the plot forward anywhere as much as him. Season 5 would suck without him, frankly.
tilden katz
2026-01-15 01:29:43 +0000 UTC"It's an EPIC POEM for me to get home every night!"
Taya
2026-01-15 01:28:33 +0000 UTCOH GOOD, your new favorite episode!
Scott
2026-01-15 01:18:02 +0000 UTCThey touched on it a bit at the end but I love when an episode’s pitch is the unifying theme. "At last. Something beautiful you can truly own." Don feels he has lost control over Megan - he doesn’t want her to travel for work but even if she goes against her dreams and “picks him,” she will hate him for it. Don feels he has lost control over Peggy - nothing would’ve kept her at SCDP at the end. Worse, she chose CGC. Don never had direct control over Joan, but he did lose control of the situation she was in - he didn’t want her to do this but it happened anyway. Don is losing power. I’m sure this bodes well for him.
Jamie
2026-01-15 01:08:36 +0000 UTCLove the Godfather type cutaway, as Don is delivering his bestest pitch, (renouncing Satan) while Joan is wiping out SCDP's competition (The 5 Families) with her shocking act. Go in peace, and may the Lord Jaguar be with you. AMEN.
tilden katz
2026-01-15 01:00:39 +0000 UTCI think in the moment where the idea was floated, Roger’s reaction was expected in front of the other men. Their romance has always been a secret, especially now after Kevin. Previously, Roger was trying to give Joan a lot of money for him and she kept sending it back. At this point, if Pete presented it as her choosing it then yes he nonchalantly said in front of the other men that he’s not going to stand in the way (and I think the “I’m not paying for it” was sort of a personal hurt that she rejected his money before). However, I do agree that they should’ve had a scene somewhere else in the episode where he said something to her privately. The focus in the episode was on Don doing that, so it probably would’ve felt redundant, but it would’ve been better.
Jamie
2026-01-15 00:52:49 +0000 UTCRoger could've gotten on the soapbox, and demanded that they under no circumstances, would consider it. But, he was of the same mind as Bert. Whateva gotta happen to get this car, we gotta do it. So, Roger was never going to get on the soapbox.
tilden katz
2026-01-15 00:52:49 +0000 UTCThe last 2 instances is how Don says, I love you. He's incapable of saying it out loud, when he really means it.
tilden katz
2026-01-15 00:23:49 +0000 UTCi think roger thought joan wanted it, thats why he asked "she wanted this?"
Josip
2026-01-14 23:55:50 +0000 UTCBert has always said about Don, "I never thought you had the stomach to be a partner." Don doesn't like the sausage being made. The deals, the slimy shit, while he parades his shiny ideas, seemingly above it all. This episode THE SAUSAGE GOT MADE. Oh, and he loses Peggy to boot. When he threw the money in Peggy's face, it was the only moment in this show that I actually wanted someone to die. The most disrespectful thing ever. That's how Don treats the person he loves the most. SHOOT. ME. NOW.
tilden katz
2026-01-14 23:38:09 +0000 UTCOne of the few episodes of television that made me sick to my stomach.
Steven Jeanrolus
2026-01-14 23:36:10 +0000 UTCWatching what happened to Joan in this episode makes you feel like the events were real, and it wasn't fiction. That's how good the acting and direction of this masterpiece, it genuinely feels like you (the viewer) were there, and you witnessed what happened, and you couldn't stop it because you can't, and it meant to happen that way.
Sami
2026-01-14 23:30:48 +0000 UTCi think he genuinely (and arrogantly) thought that the discussion would end because he left the room and that he didn't need to do more. i don't think he had any intention of reaping any benefits. he flat out says to pete that he doesn't want to win the account that way. besides, when he does find out they are going through with it he does do 'something' by going directly to joans apartment to try to talk her out of it. i feel like you're implying that don just wanted to score some morality points and that his stand was more performative than genuine which i couldn't disagree more with
Erin
2026-01-14 23:26:07 +0000 UTCbro nobody can read that shit
Josip
2026-01-14 23:18:29 +0000 UTCPete is actually the MVP of this tomfoolery. If he hadn't thought of it this in the 1st place, Joan would never be partner. Notice how Pete picked up immediately, that when he first proposes this slimy, shitty offer, Joan gets properly indignant, BUT DOES NOT SAY NO. Peter Satan Campbell took it from there.
tilden katz
2026-01-14 22:53:13 +0000 UTCI’ve always felt Don refusing to participate in the discussion was cowardly. In the moment that it was happening I was like “good on you Don” but as I reflected by the end of the episode it felt more like he thought washing his hands of it makes him morally superior but I don’t think it actually does. As fuckface Pete said, the conversation does not stop because he left the room and ran away from it. Don has a powerful voice and influence, if he truly did not want this to happen he should have spoken up and did something. This is the same guy that wrote an op ed destroying any potential business with tobacco companies without his partners consent. You mean to tell me that guy couldn’t …do anything but walk out of the room when this was being discussed? Abstaining from the partner decision but still reaping the benefits of the partner decision makes his gesture more of a self righteous one than a protective one.
Random Random
2026-01-14 22:50:43 +0000 UTCEvery time the girls said Pete is the best at business this episode flashed in my head like PTSD
Isaiah Bryant
2026-01-14 22:48:12 +0000 UTCThink you’re ignoring a lot of mitigating factors to make that assumption to be honest. Firstly it’s been over three years and there is the possibility, in fact probability given the time and changing perspective, that Don would be against anyone doing that now, not just a woman, indicating he learned from the Sal situation. Second you’re ignoring that the Lee Garner mess was a done deal by the time it got back to Don and he didn’t have a chance to state his opinion one way or the other. Third, and finally, Sal raises this exact point in the episode saying “ What if it was some girl?” and Don saying “It would depend on what I knew about that girl” is pretty obviously a character judgement on the person and not their gender, homosexual or otherwise. We obviously see it all, but to Don’s knowledge Joan is a faithful spouse grossly propositioned here, whereas Sal was unfaithful, sneaking around w men and when grossly propositioned got met with the boy who cried wolf treatment. In any event, it’s much more nuanced I feel.
Isaiah Bryant
2026-01-14 22:45:50 +0000 UTCI will say, Pete hoodwinked Roger and the rest of the partners into believing Joan was considering it, I think he stayed out of it because he felt it was her business. But that's the in universe explanation, I agree with you that Roger should be more central in the Joan storyline. I think the only reason he wasn't is because there wasn't enough space in the episode for him, it's a Joan/Don/Peggy episode, so the scenes are theirs.
Nina
2026-01-14 21:59:18 +0000 UTCJoan's anger last episode wasn't that Greg was accusing her of anything, she was angry that HE was the one initiating the divorce, whereas she is the one who was angry and who "ended" their relationship when he refused to stay home from Vietnam. She thought that she would get the satisfaction of serving HIM papers, not the other way around. "The conversation doesn't end just because you leave the room". I do honestly love this line. Despite the sickening context around it, he's not wrong. Don is not the center of the universe, and things don't stop when he's not there. That conceitedness is one of the key reasons why Peggy left. ------------ A lot of people view Don telling Joan not to do it as a sign of character growth for him, because in season three he let Sal get fired for NOT sleeping with a client. And he was harsh about it as well. He continued to grovel before Lee Garner, Jr. for the next two seasons. Now, Don asks who wants to do business with people like that? Most see this as Don has gotten that tiny smidge of integrity since then, and realized that work is not important enough to override your personal desires and consent. But I have seen a minority viewpoint that instead of viewing it as a change/improvement in Don, it's just a change in victim (And Don's relationship with the victim): Don was definitely more well-meaning towards Sal as a gay man than a lot of other people would have been if they learned his secret, but he stilled talked about how this is what gay people are like when Sal denied doing anything. When Sal asked what Don would do if it was a woman instead of him, Don said it would depend on what kind of girl she was and what he knew about her. Don KNOWS Joan. He respects her. And Good Girls are "supposed" to be sexually pursued by bad men. So she fits his idea of a "proper" victim that you can feel sympathy for and defend, whereas to him a gay man is already a sexual deviant who probably wanted it. I'm not sure if I agree completely with this alternative perspective, but there is some meat to it. The fact that it's a woman (normal) versus a gay man (abnormal) is definitely part of it. I'm just not sure how much of a part it is.
JBK405
2026-01-14 21:48:17 +0000 UTCI think it's worth mentioning that Sal got fired for refusing to do what Joan just did ... in Don's eyes it's not okay for Joan to do it because she's a woman, a wife and a mother, but Sal is just a slutty homosexual who sleeps with random hotel bellhops, so who cares, he should've just done whatever Lee Garner Jr wanted, for the sake of the company.
Taya
2026-01-14 21:18:33 +0000 UTCJryy, gurl qvq vg, gurl tbg guebhtu gur zbfg qrinfgngvat rcvfbqr va frnfba 5. Gunax tbq gur arkg bar vf whfg n yvtug, sha ebzc! 🙃
Taya
2026-01-14 21:13:07 +0000 UTCPlus Joan has repeatedly made it clear that she wants nothing to do with Roger romantically, and keeps him at arm's length. I think he has finally started to accept this and to separate himself emotionally from her. Maybe he thinks it is simply not his place to interfere with Joan's life and decisions and that trying to sway her one way or the other would only make her upset.
Taya
2026-01-14 21:11:14 +0000 UTCI think pre-LSD Roger would've not allowed this to happen, he was much more attached to Joan before. But I can see how the new Roger is much more open to let things go, which can be both good and bad, and just let Joan decide. I agree it could been handled better though. I think Lane's reaction is totally consistent with what he is going through. He is thinking pragmatic, mostly because he is desperate for money and he is afraid Joan was going to accept the first offer.
Juanma88
2026-01-14 21:06:31 +0000 UTCAlso love Lane's sneer at Pete after the first meeting I can see the character thinking, "I was so right to beat you up YOU ARE a grimey pimp."
Luis
2026-01-14 20:24:48 +0000 UTCS1E1: Peggy suggestively places her hand on Don's and he swiftly rebukes her S4E7: Don squeezes Peggy's hand in appreciation as they share a moment of mutual understanding and deep connection S5E11: Don kisses Peggy's hand and holds on to it tightly, not wanting to let her go
Taya
2026-01-14 20:19:15 +0000 UTCOn this rewatch I really noticed how Don very pejoratively throws out the discussion of make a number up to Peggy in their discussion at the end. We just saw Don and Joan spend time together alone for the first time last episode and he even invites her for a drink before he knows her news! But now Don knows that Joan has been "bought". That she has a price to do something that she doesn't want to do. And Don ever hateful of women that can be purchased looks at Joan and that relationship with her differently now. Also he sees Peggy differently now too. For her "there is no number" and he even chokes on repeating that phrase. She can't be purchased, Don likely thinks, and Don has never respected her or maybe any other woman as much before. Beautiful episode.
Luis
2026-01-14 20:03:53 +0000 UTC"This leads to the remarkable moment in which Peggy extends her hand for Don to shake and he instead bows his head to kiss it, which Abraham shrewdly shoots from an angle that makes it look as if Don is kneeling rather than leaning forward in his chair. According to Moss, Hamm was instructed not to let go of her hand until she pulled it away, and she wasn’t told that he was going to do that; the tear that falls down her face, she claims, was her own involuntary response."
PIG
2026-01-14 19:51:28 +0000 UTCMe too :)
cheech
2026-01-14 19:48:50 +0000 UTClol
PIG
2026-01-14 19:47:36 +0000 UTC“I think you met him the other day…handsome guy?” - god this shows the best
cheech
2026-01-14 19:47:06 +0000 UTCNice catch!
PIG
2026-01-14 19:45:51 +0000 UTCDon kissing Peggy’s hand is the best scene in all of television for me, without a doubt. I would put this up there with ‘The Red Wedding’ in GoT or ‘Lily of the Valley’ in BB. All three are an accumulation of incredible writing, often spanning years, finally reaching a crescendo in later seasons of 3 or 4. But Mad Men did it without swords, guns, or poison… just fascinating character development. Don finally treats Peggy as irreplaceable and it is far too late. Then he loses her. Better yet, the kiss was unscripted! Moss’s tears were real from the actor because she didn’t expect Jon Hamm to do that. Incredible writers. Incredible actors. I’m really glad you guys enjoy the show, LM!
PIG
2026-01-14 19:44:13 +0000 UTCso brutal, and yes so stunning, the Peggy/Don scene. The acting by them both, and Joan in all her moments this episode, especially as she watches Peggy walk out - just stellar. Nice to hear about the parallels with Good Wife, which ran concurrently and was the other favorite show. I had no idea you had watched/reacted to it. I will look for archives!
pb24rf19
2026-01-14 19:42:03 +0000 UTCGreat reaction. Great episode. This wasn't clear to me until years after this episode aired but Lane comes up with the idea of a partnership to offer Joan as a way to help her but also himself. If the company were to try to extend their line of credit (which Lane already did to give himself a bonus) to give her that $50K bonus, he would be discovered embezzling money. A partnership gives her way more long-term security and power in the company but also protects him.
Eric Viola
2026-01-14 19:38:40 +0000 UTC1 hour 20 mins? Wow, I am sorry about your misery but we are in for a treat. Now that I say that, it was the same situation with 2x8 too...
Kev
2026-01-14 19:20:37 +0000 UTCI just watched It's Never Over (I had problems with it but whatevs) and have been subsequently listening to Jeff all week.
Jamie
2026-01-14 19:04:00 +0000 UTCAbsolutely beautiful cover of The Other Woman by Jeff Buckley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smiuLC9ANO8
Taya
2026-01-14 19:00:35 +0000 UTCThis boutta be a heartbreaker
Alfie Harrison
2026-01-14 18:55:59 +0000 UTCThis is a devastating episode and Pete is a little sh*t.
Damien Fenton
2026-01-14 18:53:05 +0000 UTCMY FAVORITE EPISODE
Taya
2026-01-14 18:52:44 +0000 UTCThey're so excited in the intro. 🙃
Antonio
2026-01-14 18:49:40 +0000 UTCTime to get emotionally wrecked again
Virgil Hawkins
2026-01-14 18:48:13 +0000 UTCRuh roh
Jamie
2026-01-14 18:46:22 +0000 UTCFuck Pete
My Toasty Toast
2026-01-14 18:45:51 +0000 UTC
