Mad Men 3x04 Reaction
Added 2025-09-20 19:58:53 +0000 UTC
Comments
why would that man go by Ho Ho
cheech
2025-09-24 09:38:36 +0000 UTCGene was saying that because Betty never really grew up (the will scene being an example) and married someone he thinks unworthy and gave up her career, that he’s worried she’ll push Sally in that same direction, and I think him mentioning Betty being fat was his way of making Sally feel better about eating her ice cream, but I might be wrong about the last part.
Wayne
2025-09-22 06:10:47 +0000 UTCLol no, it's very funny. "Now, about the bathroom... I'm going to need some help there."
Mike
2025-09-21 18:03:12 +0000 UTCI guess I must be an awful person for finding the prank call hilarious. Everything involving Lois is comedy gold.
Erik D
2025-09-21 17:59:20 +0000 UTCSwedish, Norwegian, what's the difference? Point is, their people are nordic. I think Gene's talk with Sally is very sweet (and sad). Remember, he's just had a conversation with his daughter about his end of life arrangements, and Betty essentially shrugged it off, saying she can't handle this morbid stuff because she's (still) a little girl. On top of resenting Don in general, I think Gene can see the gilded cage that he's help build for his daughter, raising her the way he did and "letting her" marry Don. He wants Sally to have something more. (I am a sucker for "character goes around making all the necessary arrangements before they die" stories. This is a great one.) Love the scene of the adults mourning in the Draper kitchen. There's a version of that scene where they are more cruel about Gene, but they aren't. The "two wives in heaven" thing is actually kind of sentimental on Gene's part. That's a lovely memory for Betty to share. (And William's joke is really about Gloria.) But of course Sally can't understand that the adults *are* sad, and that they just have an enough perspective on death and Gene's life to joke and smile about it. I'm glad the show had enough faith in Shipka to carry that argument, because it could have been really stilted with a worse performance from the kid. Nope, she nails it.
Mike
2025-09-21 17:46:10 +0000 UTCShe knows he is gay. The realization struck her while she watched him dance. It's really amazing that people think is is ambiguous. It's not. She knows. It's like a certain character in Breakings Bad having an epiphany while in the bathroom. It's not a suspicion: it's the kind of revelation where once the thought has crossed your mind, suddenly everything clicks into place and everything makes sense. It's a shattering revelation. She knows.
Julien
2025-09-21 16:11:12 +0000 UTCNah, she totally gets what's going on in that moment. Think about the story they're telling. It's about Kitty finally putting the pieces together. She looks as if her world has shattered, not as if she's grossed out.
Sebastian
2025-09-21 10:14:50 +0000 UTCit could be that in the moment, kitty simply got the "ick" from how comfortably feminine sal was being. and only later considers any implications. even now, i'd not be surprised to hear someone say a man acting like that nullifies any attraction
on crip ...
2025-09-21 07:01:27 +0000 UTCHere's a video of Sal's Bye Bye Birdie compared with original https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s4TqjpcZ4Ow&list=PLRpi_7YqQYwzcA9YnoCdrRfn1bApJe6fV&index=24 I've always wondered if Kitty actually suspects Sal is gay. She knows he doesnt want to have sex with her, so it's possible. I just don't know if her mind would go there. Everyone's reaction to the ad feels like it represents Sal - it looks right, it does everything right, but there's something wrong about it they can't quite put their finger on. Someone mentions it in the video comments, but Sal's version of the ad is campy and lacks sex appeal. There's none of the passion of the original, which was the initial pitch of the ad - reclaiming youthful looks and vitality. Sal represses himself and connects to the ad through this almost childish theatrical quality. It's uncomfortable and sad to watch even if you don't quite know why.
Mark M
2025-09-21 06:44:41 +0000 UTCMy grandfather did the same for me at 12 years old as Gene did to Sally here. He was dying for months physically but was quite healthy mentally and emotionally. He passed on all the thoughts and advice he could for the rest of my life, and I am always grateful. He was honest and said what he felt was best, regardless of his daughter (same as Gene) or other family/failings.
Scott
2025-09-21 02:02:25 +0000 UTCWar is hell, though young (and some older, ugh) Americans have forgotten what it's about and the reason autocracies are evil incarnate because people like Gene are all dead.
Scott
2025-09-21 01:53:21 +0000 UTCIt's funny how I didn't even think to question why Gene was leaving the house with phonebooks in his hands. Then it cuts to him in the passenger seat and I think to myself - "oh"
Chris B
2025-09-21 00:35:42 +0000 UTCI'm sorry this is completely off topic but can I enlighten LM watchers to this absolutely legendary youtube pull? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3sjrF8bjds&list=RDW3sjrF8bjds&start_radio=1
PlebWanderer
2025-09-20 23:20:08 +0000 UTCI was JUST reading an old Reddit thread to double check joan's job title and someone said "remember that infamous scene where Joan kissed Sal and suddenly realised he was Italian?"
Kara
2025-09-20 23:14:10 +0000 UTCGood stuff! On Anita, it's been like a year since those S2 eps to be fair. Her new baby is older, and she's probably relaxed a lot, and much more hyped that Peggy gets to be happy and live a life away from home. If it took peggy ~6 months to recover, then those S2 eps were only 1 year after the recovery and its all still raw. In S1 Joan is the head of the secretarial pool, and at some point before S2 gets promoted to Office Manager (her official title), but she retains her secretarial management duties.
Kara
2025-09-20 23:12:35 +0000 UTCAh the infamous episode where Kitty finally realizes her husband is Italian 😔
Taya
2025-09-20 23:10:18 +0000 UTCGene's advice often isn't correct and his stories may not be appropriate for children, but he was the only person to give Sally the attention she needs and deserves. He was the one person whose ACTIONS show that he loves her, and that's what a child can understand. I do believe that Betty and Don mean well in their own minds, but for a neglected child that's less than nothing. So Sally just lost the one person that she can tell cares about her. "Jai alai" is a real sport, but needless to say it did not become a sensation in the USA. It originated in the Basque territory (Spain and France) and was first introduced to the USA in 1904. It still exists as a professional sport in some areas, but was never massively successful and in the modern day has fallen below the heights it did reach in the mid-20th century. I do find it fascinating how Peggy's sister took her side against their mother. Anita had so much anger towards Peggy in season two after the pregnancy -- if I recall correctly she actually confessed that she hated Peggy when talking to that priest -- but she's either put it behind her now, or has come to understand the role that their mother played in both of their lives. She sees that their mother is being pointlessly mean and hurtful, and she speaks up. Fandom consensus is never universal, but most fans of this show agree that this episode is where Sal's wife figures out that he's gay. The biggest dissenting opinion I've seen is that (continuing on their previous scenes) she realized again just how disconnected she is from Sal's life because he's energized about this work and she can't get involved at all. To answer your question about Joan's job, she is Head of Personnel (Or maybe Head of Staff, I forget the precise title). She is the supervisor for all of the office personnel, which mainly consists of the secretaries, switchboard, etc. She's MANAGEMENT (Which is why she was present in the big lineup when they were pitching to American Airlines in season two). The reason we see her still getting no respect is because of the innate sexism that says ANY woman in an office must be lower-ranking than the men, and because she doesn't fight back against it directly because it's not 'proper'. She does a lot of the unpleasant jobs herself (Like taking over as Don's secretary, and now dealing with the ants) because she wants them done CORRECTLY so nobody has any grounds for complaints against her.
JBK405
2025-09-20 23:01:14 +0000 UTCGene fought in WW1 and Roger fought in WW2 and Don fought in Korea and soon the next bunch of kids will ship off to Vietnam and the cycles continues and feels like it'll never end.
Kara
2025-09-20 23:00:39 +0000 UTCWe see Don again be 'the voice of reason' and have loyalty and ethics beyond anyone else in the office. Of course in the end he gives in, but only after much effort. I think the father has a point: many rich parents realise too late their child is the product of an encriched, frictionless upbringing... of course "We're all trying to find the guy who raised them???" Don looks so much like his father sometimes, its uncanny casting. In the commentary, Matthew Weiner says that Gene is the only person who tells Betty that he doesn't like Don, while everyone else loves him. People often struggle with how much better their parents are as grandparents like wow, where was this kind old man when I was growing up? While his comments are a bit unfair I think there's are truths Gene senses... he's terrified Betty is raising Sally the way they raised Betty, that the poison will drip through. We've seen Betty be particularly obsessed with Sally's looks, weight, and her finding a husband... Kiernan Shipka (Sally) believes this is the first time anyone has ever told Sally she can "do anything" and that her mother "isn't perfect". So Gene is the only person telling Sally she can be more than just a housewife... an engineer, an artist, a copywriter looking for a roomate in Manhattan? The show is so well-made. The episode opens with a wide shot of the Draper house with Gene exiting its iconic red door, so when we see it again later we immediately remember. The news broadcast Sally watches is a subtle touch. We see the iconic photograph of the buddhist monk self-immolating in protest, then hear that the dow jones has dropped 2 points, then hear an upcoming ad for cigarettes. This is the mileu of Mad Men's swinging sixties, where horror and business and bright commerical advertising are blended into a soup and served to the nation every night at 6 and 11. Of course, Peggy gifts her 'ma' a new TV, so she can better enjoy it too (her mother knows Peggy will go from visiing every other day to every other week or month). It's one of the reasons I find a lot of modern TV storytelling so frustrating. It's A to B to C with no care or subtlety or appreciation for the rewatch, building tension, priming the audience. It's TV via Wikipedia Plot Summaries and Reddit Detective Analysis. Bonus thoughts: Kiernan Shipka (Sally) is on the commentary for this episode and she's so cute lol she's like 10 or something. Jai Alai is a real sport and "Patxi" was its real life star. Every set/location in the show is so beautiful, the restaurant Don meets Ho-Ho in is just exquisite and filled with hustling bodies and light and period props, it's that old school magic. Ho-Ho namedrops David Ogilvy, a real ad exec whose 1963 "Confessions of an Advertising Man" was a bestseller and one of the show's inspirations.
Kara
2025-09-20 22:53:36 +0000 UTCIt's pretty common for parents to regret the way they raised their kids. My own parents were very different with my brother and I than they were with my two older siblings, and that was a ten year gap. Parents mature and change their attitudes as time passes just like everyone else. Gene recognizes where he went wrong with Betty, and doesn't want her passing on her limited/outdated beliefs (that he likely helped instill into her) onto Sally.
Taya
2025-09-20 22:45:34 +0000 UTCPeggy roommate ad subplot is cute but I don't buy it for a fraction of a second. I just don't believe at all that Peggy, a talented copywriter, couldn't write a good ad for herself as a roommate and had to be coached by Joan. Not my favorite bit on writing on this show.
Julien
2025-09-20 22:45:33 +0000 UTCAlso couple other things - I loved how Joan coaching Peggy on the wanted ad was framed like when Don pitches an idea for an ad campaign. I also just instinctively find it difficult to feel sympathy for nepo baby failsons. Yeah it’s sad he just wants to impress daddy. But, nah. Take the money. Let him learn.
Jay Craig
2025-09-20 22:33:51 +0000 UTCI don’t know man. Gene said, to Betty’s face, a couple of scenes earlier that it was ‘our fault, how we raised you’ that made her, in his eyes, not aim high enough in her life. When he says to Sally ‘Don’t let your mother tell you what you’re capable of’ (or w.e. Paraphrasing) I don’t think he’s saying ‘don’t let your horrible mother clip your wings because she’s bad’, I think he’s saying to her, knowing he is not gonna be around for that part of her life to reassure her, that he knows the consequence of his raising of Betty could be that she inadvertently holds her down. You can argue the way he says it means Sally clearly won’t parse that nuance, but in his spot how else can he say it? The damage is already done with Betty- he thinks Sally could be standing in the path of a train he won’t be there to stop.
Jay Craig
2025-09-20 22:20:43 +0000 UTCGrandpa Gene is a minor character but he shows how well Mad Men is written. In one big swoop he: 1) Further characterises the previous generation (I mean the war he is talking about is WWI and like Milena said we are talking about a man from a century ago basically) 2) Gives us more insight into Betty's character and upbringing. In one exchange we understand even more about her and her brother's childhood - "Peaches give me a rash", "Your sister likes them" - William didn't have it sweet either. 3) Fleshes out the kids more and especially makes a very big impact on Sally and her maturation. Moreover, like you mentioned, he highlights the absence of Don as a father in their lives. 4) Represents an opposition to Don (he's one of the very few characters that can tell Don's lying and confronts him directly about it). The actor did an amazing job portraying him
bondbond53
2025-09-20 21:52:03 +0000 UTCIt's not surprising that younger millennials wouldn't know her. The movie's cultural presence had faded a lot in the last two decades or so. I suspect growing distate for Lost Cause sentimentalism played a role. Also in the context of literature, she may be a US or anglosphere icon but there many literary traditions in this world and our reactors are Serbian.
Julien
2025-09-20 21:22:00 +0000 UTCLola, you don't know Scarlett O'Hara? Of "Gone with the Wind"? One of the most important female characters in literature? Girls you need to either read the book or watch the 1939 legendary film
bondbond53
2025-09-20 20:56:28 +0000 UTCHugely skeptical of this claim outside of the godfather and an additional reference/copycat or two.
Julien
2025-09-20 20:55:52 +0000 UTCAlso in film language when oranges are mentioned it usually a sign for death
Jude G
2025-09-20 20:42:31 +0000 UTCOh yeah, Sal’s wife has figured it out. Because of the time it did take her a bit but that’s the face of someone who realized her husband is gay
Jude G
2025-09-20 20:39:08 +0000 UTCThey posted a schedule yesterday.
Robert Dirk H.
2025-09-20 20:22:39 +0000 UTCDamn, this is early. I love it. I know there's been some schedule disruption, so what does next week look like for Mad Men?
Julien
2025-09-20 20:21:26 +0000 UTC
