The Sopranos 5x08 Reaction

wait i'm very behind on the reactions... people want them to like Tony in THIS episode?? i do remember him being unfairly judged a *little* by carmela's mom but cmon

Mahni Alizadeh

You can be emotionally connected to characters you don’t like.

John

They decide about the adverts.

John

It does matter what other shows have been reacted to because that compounds on some of the concerns being brought up here for some people. Beyond that, what you're saying isn't wrong but I don't think you're really addressing what some of the concerns are. Nobody has said or asked anyone to forget anything. Nobody who's laughing at the VERY overt comedy in the show has forgotten that these are bad people or forgotten the bad moments and I can't imagine the creators wrote comedy in the show for people to not laugh and expected people to forget. People are basically just expressing that reactions where scowling through most of the comedic/wholesome scenes aren't as enjoyable (not that it was the case in this episode reaction, but that's the criticism in general). Also, some of the framing of it by some people, like trying to paint it as only andrew tate-esq breaking bad fans are just hating because they aren't worshiping terrible male characters are commenting in bad faith considering a number of these comments have directly acknowledged these characters are terrible people.

Veya

It doesn’t matter what *other* shows have done, i’m talking about this one. I really don’t get the sense this one wants you to ever forget it, even when showing the characters in a lighter scene. I understand these characters are nuanced and we’re supposed to engage with that. I wouldn’t enjoy the show if i didn’t see how multifaceted the characters are. Let me clarify what i meant. Tony is my favorite in the show, at times i have empathy for him, sympathy, pity, even love etc, he’s ALWAYS fascinating and a great character study. But every emotion and thought i have about him is always accompanied by a sense of disgust as well. Especially from S3 and onward. And to me it reads as something the writers intended, and if they didn’t then you can still understand why that’s the case right? You can understand why, with all their nuance and trauma and baggage, a group of people who consistently commit heinous actions would be described as “irredeemable pigs”? It’s just an insult toward a group of truly deplorable people, it’s not a full character analysis, and i wasn’t trying to rob them of nuance by saying it.

jweher

Youtube isn’t patreon. Their account on YT is still monetized lol

Bxb

@jweher "You’re not supposed to watch them kill hookers or beat their girlfriends and immediately forget in the next “nice” scene lol." Except they've done just that in other shows with significantly worse characters (yes i do mean significantly, which is saying a lot cause characters on this show are already bad). "deplorable irredeemable pigs that the creator wants you to be disgusted by." Far more nuanced than this if you ever want to look up creator's complicated relationship with the characters. It appears this is your first watch so I don't actually recommend it before you finish, but if you still care to after finishing, it can be an interesting chain of reading.

Veya

What do you guys drink when you watch reactions? Is it coffee? But it's got foam... lol

Hammad Syed

You don't say

Mark M

Why is there adverts on the YouTube videos when we are paying via patreon?

John

It’s the hypocrisy of Americans, being so superficial and dumb/ignorant.

John

Some very weird people in the comments. They should stop paying attention to manipulative political propaganda of rich people and read Alan watts or something.

John

Man of the house is a very old fashioned, somewhat prejudiced attitude.

John

People must react to shows exactly like you, eh. You small, insecure man.

John

Take your own advice on the levity.

John

“You didn’t rehash the argument you decided to put to bed weeks ago because i’m right and you’re wrong” are you 12 lol? Between the ages of 14 and 18 i’d have argued to death, but i have better shit to do now than camp in the comment section of a reaction video to argue with a dude who’s misrepresenting my point about Janice and arguing in bad faith. I stopped checking replies from you on that video when i said i thought it was a waste of time and sincerely moved on. You should too. I 100% stand by what i said back then but i have no interest in getting you to agree with me. You should be more embarrassed about showing your ass in this small community by being unable to let things go and accepting that disagreements happen.

jweher

@jweher I mean say that I'm petty if you want but I'm right lol. The fact that you didn't adress the point at all is proof of it. You're biased as well, period. Do me a favor and don't take it personally.

Gaboxxy

yeah that's because Breaking Bad's story is much more exaggerated and fantastical compared with reality, so maybe it was easier for them to be able to dissociate with their morals and enjoy the show. Meanwhile The Sopranos plot and tone is a lot more grounded in reality, which I love about it. The gritty realism and dark humor is what makes this show so great but you could show LM a documentary about real life serial killers and they wouldn't be half as offended as they get with this show.

DB

I actually watched much of their reactions to BB and it was MUCH different than their reactions to The Sopranos. Matter of fact, I never minded how they reacted to BB's characters, they were able to judge them while also understanding the nuances and reminding that it is a crime drama about a drug cook and conforming to their world. That's not the case with the Sopranos, Lola especially acts as if she's watching raw footage of real people committing crimes, it's bizarre.

Gaboxxy

@Víctor Malheiros It's like they get off by feeling morally superior by literally judging fictional characters LOL, it's ridiculous.

Gaboxxy

You think Robert Kleins a little… weird about women?

Darrach

Paypal? I thought I told you, you kick up to Johnny Sack now

Abacus

@jweher I feel you. First time I watched The Sopranos, it was around S5 that the darkness of it all started to get to me in a way that I wasn’t accustomed to. Snuck up on me. The naturalism of The Sopranos is such that it hits much harder than other shows which are, on paper, darker and more depraved. I also started taking the show in smaller doses around this point, after binging the previous seasons.

AE

robert klein

robert klein

I understand your position (LM's criticisms too, for that matter), but I think the creator (David Chase) has a more nuanced perspective about the mobsters than just wanting disgust; otherwise, he wouldn't praise Gandolfini's performance based on the ability of the actor to show "the little boy" in his eyes, or wouldn't say things about Christopher's drug addiction understood as a need for sedation of all the pain he's brought on himself by choosing this life. I think he just has that kind of perspective where he's able to see the vulnerable part of someone even when they're being aggressors, and conversely, he doesn't absolve people just because they're overall good, or victims of a situation. Like, he's talked about Gandolfini's shortcomings and things he didn't like during the eulogy and afterwards, and still called him a brother (and was way more emotional than I ever thought, since I only had read the text and only in the very recent doc I saw how Chase was actually feeling while reading it). In that sense, it reminds me of David Lynch, where he seems to keep the good and the bad all interlocked. At the same time, yes, he was also very interested in keeping the mobsters behaving and thinking like actual mobsters, down to the point that some of his self-critique of Tony as a character is that he probably has too much self-awareness for the type of guy he was supposed to be lol

Simon M. y Atana Sumi

@Erin nah we get what Finn did wrong, it's just that the reaction that sounds a bit exaggerated like the dude is a piece of shit now because he didn't read the room correctly. Like you said, the point was more about how full Carmella's hands were without anyone helping rather than how shitty Finn is specifically.

Gaboxxy

y'all should cut back on the "they're vile human beings" BS. Give me a break, will ya? It's a show about the MAFIA, for christ's sake. What'd you expect? Think of it, imagine you watching Dexter or something and being all like: "OMG, this is unacceptable morally reprehensible behavior, look at me clutching my pearls. This is MURDER!!!". Whatever , man. When I watch it I just laugh at the absurdity of it. Like Tony being unfaithful. The fuck did you expect? that's part of what makes the show amusing... how over the top these characters are... When Tony screwed the one-legged girl, I found that to be amusing, just because of how screwed-up the whole thing is. I didn't go like: "omg, this is disgusting". Also I didn't feel disgusted when Carmela kissed Victor Musto.... it's all part of it guys. the problem is when you get to political or too moralistic about it, as if you yourself had never made questionable decisions... anyway... peace.. out

Víctor Malheiros

I am definitely still loving the show! And yes i noticed how much darker it’s gotten visually! It really adds to the depressing vibe lol.

jweher

Well I hope you are enjoying regardless! It’s one of my favourite shows and maybe THE favourite, hard to say. Season 5 is depressing, you are right. You might have noticed how much literally darker the show is now too. If you compare how Season 1 and 2 looked, the colour palette has gradually become much less bright and vibrant.

Darrach

sure but it doesn’t make a great reaction

Zach D

My first time!

jweher

Yeah Tony B is very compelling to me, a great addition. Have you seen this show before jweher or is this your first time through it?

Darrach

I think how grim this season has gotten has maybe put her on edge? Because it definitely has done that to me. I’m used to dark shows but something about this season bums me out more than usual. For me it’s because it genuinely feels like there’s no escape for any of these characters and they’ll always succumb to their worst impulses. Of course that was always the case but it’s hitting harder this season. It feels more disappointing somehow. Tony B ruining his own future with the massage parlor thing affected me more than something like that usually would, and now i’m watching at a slower pace and with a more pessimistic outlook. Of course i can’t speak for Lola but i think that’s why i relate to her reactions.

jweher

I would say they are emotionally connected to the far darker characters in this show as well. Chris and Tony being the main examples, Tony B too to some extent, and Janice.

Darrach

They are emotionally connected to Carmella, aj, meadow, Adriana just not the people that actions make it almost impossible to emotionally connect with them.

Cole

They enjoy the show a lot. They constantly talk about it being one of the best written shows they’ve ever seen. You can love this show and have nothing but bad things to say about most of the characters at the same time.

Cole

@jweher totally fair. Good point about enjoying shows where you don't connect to the characters. Sopranos is such a deep show it doesn't surprise me people have a lot of conflicting reactions. It does strike me as odd when these moments happen and are always being qualified with references to them being bad people. But it's probably the reality of verbalizing all these conflicting thoughts rather than just feeling them.

Mark M

I’ll take the latter please.

Darrach

Not a good guy certainly, but it was three episodes ago they were saying how much they loved him ahah. I have noticed that with Lola in the last few episodes she has taken something the worst/wrong way by reacting just a little too quickly before the scene can actually play out and you get the full composition. The ones that come to mind right now are Tony and Junior at the end of 5x3 and again with Tony at the poker table in 5x4. These are really great moments to me, and Milena has seemed more tuned-in to the vibe/framing the show is putting out for these moments. They are both still damn near geniuses with their emotional reading overall of course, just this show seems to have thrown Lola off-kilter a touch, and maybe this again is an example of that. It’s only noticeable because she is normally so good with this stuff I guess.

Darrach

I get what you’re saying but Tony B isn’t exactly a good guy so i get why she, momentarily, went there. I’ve thought the same watching a different show where a dude looked at his step daughter a bit too long, but i ended up being wrong too lol. This is the type of thing that happens enough, in real life and in shows, that it can cross your mind. Lola has always been the type of person to expect the worst, in literally every show she watches, and this show deals with pretty dark themes and isn’t afraid to show their characters in a bad light, so it doesn’t surprise me she immediately anticipated the worst to happen. It’s just so Lola lol.

jweher

Nicholas

I do agree with you jweher, and I roll my eyes when I see comments on any show talking about how they dislike male characters for being male, obviously not true lol. I will say, one thing that did give me some pause in this particular episode was Lola assuming Tony B was trying to hit on Meadow. It’s his cousins daughter and they have genuinely interesting conversations in this episode, which is tied to the connection of his missing daughter etc, but to assume “he looked at her for longer than normal so he wants to have sex with her” is a bit odd to me. Even Milena looked at her like “are you good” lol. I know she corrected but still, it’s strange to me that that’s what she jumped to. Everyone has their own little biases and prejudices of course and I think that is an example of one. No big deal, just an observation. There are far bigger sins in this world than having some bias or prejudice against men as a woman. We all live in a patriarchal society and this show highlights a particularly virulent niche of society where misogyny is even more prevalent so maybe she’s just being hyper-aware. What do you think?

Darrach

Your first reply, this fucking guy ah, fucking Philadelphia lawyer

Ruben Welsh

A very good reactor I recommend is Elliot Moses he’s said things about the show that I haven’t thought about and I’ve seen it 3 times

Ruben Welsh

True on that last bit Tony slapping Hugh with sausages is just pure comedy like cmon

Ruben Welsh

Exactly, I’m not saying to gaslight themselves into saying their good people of course that’s stupid but whenever you see a more emotional side of these people it’s just get shutdown kinda removing further conversations about these characters, I guess what I mean is they are still Human ya know?

Ruben Welsh

Carmela feels pity for herself while a great wind carries her by

Ruben Welsh

Nobody here is asking them to “worship” anything. We get it, they’re all horrible people. I always enjoy these reactions because of their thoughtful commentary but the visceral hatred straight up kills the vibe sometimes. I had hoped they would at least appreciate the wholesome moment with the party, instead it’s nothing but cynicism from these two. I mean Lola is literally clenching her jaw in anger every episode, I’m concerned with how bothered she gets on a personal level with this show. It’s just fiction at the end of the day. “A little fucking levity, huh?”

DB

This is disingenuous and you know it. The top liked comment literally used the word “sociopath” to describe these characters. Plenty of the people commenting aren’t ignoring that these are awful people or asking for worship. Tbf it’s just a tough spot. People don’t (or at least shouldn’t) want fake reactions but then get put off by reactions they don’t like. But if we agree that fake reactions aren’t good then it should be accepted that fake comments aren’t good as well. Unless there’s people being rude about it (which outside of one or two I’m not actually seeing any, maybe it was different for the BB comments) it’s just people being honest with their comments. With shows that have a difficult relationship with its audience the comment sections will rarely be a pure glazing fest.

Veya

So Finn is also a deplorable irredeemable pig? Hugh? Lol, they are a bit biased against the male characters, it's ok. On another video you were literally defending Janice, so you can't tell me you aren't a bit biased yourself.

Gaboxxy

I was wondering when the “they’re biased against male characters” comments would start coming in. As if these are not deplorable irredeemable pigs that the creator wants you to be disgusted by. The show never lets you forget who they are, the “scowling” and judgement from LM is a natural result of that. You’re not supposed to watch them kill hookers or beat their girlfriends and immediately forget in the next “nice” scene lol. It taints all their truly human moments. The “overly harsh” reactions to their less horrible moments comes from watching them be the absolute worst for 5 seasons.

jweher

WHY WONT THEY APPRECIATE THE SHEER ARTISTRY THAT IS BEING CONVEYED THRU THE DUALITY OF NATURE THAT TONY SOPRANO EMBODIES. WHY WONT THEY REACT TO MY FAV SHOW JUST LIKE I DO. PLS REACT DIFFERENTLY

Erin

its pretty obvious that the show is conveying how carmella has her plate full while everyone, including finn, tony b, her parents etc, are all nagging her. Seems like lola read the scene correctly. Not sure what any of this has to do with their "gender bias." its not about going to the pool. it's about bothering carmella about a towel when she's already extremely busy

Erin

I see the Breaking Bad dynamics is repeating. Fans butthurt that female reactors aren't worshipping a male protagonist that is a thoroughly vile human being.

Julien

@Kitchener Leslie Timeline got fucked up.

Gaboxxy

Sometimes shows will have european and american versions that will differ slightly in some aspects of the editing.

Gaboxxy

@bondbond53 Yeah, even though Finn probably comes from a more middle/upper class enviroment, he's still from an Italian american family and as such was more likely raised with more traditional gender roles. As a chilean I can definitely relate. My country is fairly progressive, but growing up (I'm in my late twenties) it was very common in these type of events for women to do all the work in preparation, including the female guests which were expected to offer help, while the men would just stand around laughing and drinking. Some would offer help and it would be appreciated, but it wasn't expected of them. And mind you most of these women would work or have careers themselves, it's not like the men had the excuse that "they work their asses off all week" because so would the women, but they would still be expected to basically be the hand in these type of gatherings.

Gaboxxy

I know nuns that are less sanctimonious

jackpotz

@MarcusCato yeah but I recently had an exact experience as I described in my first sentence with one of the big reaction channels and the amount of commenters that absolutely jumped on me for questioning if the reactor was thinking about the deeper implications of what he was watching was wild. Here every single week people seem irked by LM's "high horse stance" when it's just the way they engage with stories and I can almost assure you they are having a very good time. As such, the two cases are obviously not 1 to 1 comparable but to me it appears that the "you're taking this too seriously, relax" crowd are a bit too comfortable in LM's comment sections of this show

bondbond53

Their thumbnail game is so spoiler-y.

Marcus Cato

To be fair, if you have a reaction channel you are going to get dragged no matter what you do. Some people just get an idea on how the reactors should respond and just can't let it go if they respond some other way.

Marcus Cato

You know for sure that if the girls were enjoying every moment of this show and someone would comment that they find such reaction uncomfortable because of how horrible these characters are many would jump down the commenters throat to understand "different opinions" and to not "tell reactors how to react". I've seen it in other channel and it's only an issue if the reactor chooses to always view a show with a critical eye. Let the girls enjoy the show however they want. If you hate so much them "being on a moral high horse" then scroll past. Reminds me of the commenters annoyed at LM not enjoying the police character in The Wire.

bondbond53

Idk but I know in my culture anyone's girlfriend/fiancee/wife would be expected to help with the food and part regardless of if they're a guest or not or otherwise receive massive side eye. It's really frustrating really. As such, I found it funny at the girls nagging Finn. Good!

bondbond53

@Cole these are not the most morally disgusting characters of any T.V show LOL, I’ve seen way worse. And regardless, even if they were, we get it already, they are criminals. What many of us don’t seem to understand is the need to make us know their constant moral outrage over people that don’t even exist. Like, again, we get it, they are bad and you’re morally perfect, can we get past it and enjoy the show as a show instead of acting like we were watching a documentary and these people were doing something to you personally.

Gaboxxy

Aww poor her!

Gaboxxy

He’s honestly entitled to wanting Tony there, it’s HIS birthday and it was Tony’s house. It indeed would be weird to not invite Tony to his own house to celebrate the birthday of a man that likes him and wants him there. Lola says this is what you choose when you separate/divorce, but the opposite is also true, when there’s a family involved many times you will have to keep seeing the face of your ex and you have to learn to deal with it without it putting you uncomfortable or wanting to go back. I’ve known married couples that ended horribly, and yet for various reasons they still keep in touch and maintain a cordial relationship and still have to see each other from time to time, it’s called being an adult about it. Of course neither Carmella and Tony have the willpower to maintain a relationship like that, but that's not Hugh or the rest of the family's fault, in theory they should learn to deal with it at least until AJ is out of the house.

Gaboxxy

And it's also after Rusty made a big deal about how deplorable it is to kill a woman. David Chase really don't want you to feel any sense of justice or closure with regards to the violence and murder in this show.

IanJ

It’s his fault she’s a klutz?

Gaboxxy

I always feel bad for Heather the hooker getting collateral whackage along with Joey Peeps. It ties in with Tony B's story a little as he has a missing daughter that he's worried about, but he doesn't think twice about killing Heather just because she's there. That's somebody's daughter too. And onward goes this thing of ours.

Abacus

I also just watched the BluRay and there's no yell. When I heard the yell on their reaction I thought I just got a Mandela effect, but just checked the BR after reading these comments and there's no yell. Huh.

Abacus

On the contrary, David Chase intentionally designed Tony Soprano to be a complex character that the audience would not definitively like or dislike, aiming to make viewers grapple with his morally ambiguous nature and understand his motivations, rather than simply cheering for or against him; essentially, he wanted the audience to be conflicted about Tony.

Joe Lazarus

Yeah love them but they're clearly biased against every male character and for every female character haha

Tyler Scott

Stupid Max with the spoiling thumbnails

Tyler Scott

IIRC it only happened cause Carmela was staring off into nothing when Angie coincidentally bumped into her at the market and the dog came up as a subject for conversation. I don’t think she found out about her job until the beginning of S4. Point still stands though they didn’t associate much after Pussy “went into the program”

Kitchener Leslie

I rather have them roll their eyes every time Tony speaks then ignore the fact we are watching arguably the most morally disgusting people ever put to tv.

Cole

David chase tries very hard to make you not forget how horrible Tony is.

Cole

Its not that enjoyable when you know its not going to last and its a destroyed, morally corrupted family that just forgot that for a moment. Its way more sad and upsetting because this is what they could’ve been if different choices were made.

Cole

You're right. I just watched the bluray version and Tony doesn't yell. I wonder which version is this? (I don't have Max) I actually always liked that it was all silent except the gun shots and the music just gets louder, it was a neat little detail. The yell kinda ruins it.

enchantertim

Great episode/discussion. I think the 'man of the house' comments are just because Tony literally owns the house. The party is at his house, it's his money paying for it. It'd be weird for him not to be there. Kind of a larger comment on Carmella's life at the moment and why she found it easy to kiss him at the party. I love this episode though and really all of the remaining episodes of this season. It's definitely a more chill episode overall and has that more fun earlier season vibes.

Mark M

Damn, Lola was so harsh on Finn for wanting to go out to the pool, saying Meadow should dump him instantly. He's a guest in their house and Meadow had just told him to go and take a dip to cool off. Hilarious the weird nitpicks that Lola finds to get outraged about in this.

Abacus

I think them watching BB, BCS, and other shows first had them disillusioned going into this show. Expecting every Anti hero to have a redemption arc or a sympathetic characteristic or journey to make you empathize with them. Or just a character you can root for. The Sopranos and OZ broke the rules of story telling in that regard. There are no good guys on this show. Not even the cops, or the wives. So don’t go expecting them to show up. I also think them being young and non American makes it hard to relate. America was always fascinated with the mob in NY. John Gotti was a bonified celebrity. We were obsessed because he was a good looking guy who always dressed sharp and had funny jokes in the courtroom. We allowed ourselves to forget that this was a horrible human to did horrible things. This is the hypocrisy of humans that Chase was tapping into. What makes a killer acceptable?

Clause

How green was my fucking Valli

Abacus

@Jacob Oh I think they’re enjoying the show immensely, and they appreciate its brilliance, as they always do with television of this caliber. I’d still rather watch LM Sopranos reactions than most other reactions. I just don’t think the show is destined to become a favorite for them, even if they recognize its artistry. Finally, while they’re still astute critics who immediately clock more than you’d expect from the average first-time viewer, their analysis of certain characters and relationships still occasionally strike me as reductive precisely because their default hermeneutic has become one of suspicion.

AE

Tony B's jealousy over his cousin's great life is petty, of course, but the moment when he watches Tony & Meadow hugging and joking around gives that story so much extra depth and sadness. He isn't just jealous of the fabulous backyard. Such a thoughtful grace note from show there. For what it's worth, earlier this season, Hugh was totally supportive of Carmela moving on from Tony. "You're still young" etc. (Having said that, I always thought it was oddly sweet that he wants Tony at his birthday party. And just because he considers Tony a friend doesn't mean he wants Carmela to stay married to him.)

Mike

@Derek she wasn't "present" in her life lol, that whole thing happened out of a conversation Carm had with her when she found her working a supermarket job she didn't even know she had. They weren't really close anymore by that point. Matter of fact, she and the other girls gossiped with almost disgust about the job she was working.

Gaboxxy

Huh, I don't remember being able to hear Tony B yell when his foot got run over.

IanJ

Hey Carmela was present in her life and then Tony beat her car with a baseball bat and told her to keep their conversations to oven cleaner

Derek Suboticki

@AE I agree with your general sentiment to a point but I think it has to do more with the average person struggling with the dualistic nature of this show. You can both think the pool scene is a wholesome moment and still dislike the characters themselves, all while enjoying the incredible story. It's clear to me they get that and that's why for me personally this is the best Sopranos reaction I've ever seen. I don't understand how anyone could come away from their show discussions and not think they are not enjoying this show immensely.

Jacob

@AE I think the main issue is that in every show they seem to enjoy finding characters they connect with, and in this show they can't really connect with anyone. You can tell by the way Lola talks about how she doesn't understand how a character would do something because it's not what SHE would do. So it's like she puts herself in the character's place and in this show (unless you're a sociopath) that's not going to go well. It's obviously Carmela that they're desperately trying to connect and sympathize with and when she does something they don't agree with they have trouble understanding her motivations. At least that's how I see it, I could be totally wrong. Regardless, I actually do enjoy watching their reactions to this show for the simple fact that this mafia culture completely unknown to them. I love watching them be totally flabbergasted by some of the things these people say and do, especially Lola, she gets so physically angry at a lot of Tony's behavior that it becomes comical at times.

BND

Yeah tbf this honestly shouldn't even need to be said. It's all information the show has given us before.

Veya

LM’s highly empathetic-moralistic mode of media engagement—which, in most contexts , makes them ideal reactors—is precisely what makes them less than ideal reactors to The Sopranos. The entire cast of this show is so morally bankrupt that their usual means of engagement don’t work and in fact work against their ability to both enjoy and analyze the show (the disgust reflex is so strong that it sometimes feels that LM isn’t actually watching the show, as others have pointed out). They’re still the best reactors online by a country mile IMO, but I think The Sopranos reactions have been a little less enjoyable for both them and their viewers for the above reasons (or at least this viewer). There’s an ironic watching style, a grim playfulness, that The Sopranos demands of its viewers that doesn’t come easy to the very sincere LM.

AE

@john wayne -- david chase didn't want people to IDOLIZE tony and the mafia, not have no sympathy for them. He doesn't want to let them off for their sins but the scenes with the kids and the family having happy moments aren't meant to be looked at with an eye roll or disdain. They reflect his idea that family and love are important things in a cold universe (the nihilistic undertones and most seasons ending with some sort of family scene are a primary indication). If every scene with the kids or any positive family interaction are going to be met with scorn and disdain, it feels like you might as well watch something like say, death note or house of cards or something. Stuff that are more mechanical where it's very clear there aren't any sympathetic traits or very, very little for the main characters. The love in this show is written earnestly (i'm talking about the actual moments of love, not the platitudes that characters throw around at times). It's just that the moral emphasis of this show is that love is often not the defining factor in doing the right thing.

Veya

Why would we assume that they're not enjoying the good moments? Is enjoyment only present in the form of laughter and relaxation? It seems that one would have to turn off moral consciousness to enjoy things. I firmly believe that's not true. You can judge the actions of characters, analyze, and keep your moral consciousness awake, and still enjoy art—perhaps even enjoy it with greater depth. At least, that works for me

RubénMO

Ach, I can't believe I forgot to mention it in the episode where he first appeared: Rusty Millio -- one of the men who asked Tony B to perform the hit -- is played by Frankie Valli. Frankie Valli is a very famous singer who is from Newark, NJ. He was the frontman for the band "The Four Seasons". He has tangential real-world connections to the Mafia: As told in the biopic "Jersey Boys" he desperately wanted to be in the Mafia when he was a kid, but all the gangsters liked his singing too much to let him in since they knew he'd inevitably get killed. He was actually mentioned last season, during the Christopher Columbus episode. The owner of the casino asked Tony to get Frankie to perform at his casino, and Tony was furious that he'd have to pull strings to make it happen. By fascinating coincidence, his hit song "Walk Like A Man" started playing in my music shuffle while writing this post. When they are asking Tony B to make the hit, they say that the guy is a "friend of a friend, not a friend of ours." That specific terminology means that the guy is connected to a crew, but is NOT a Made man. So though there may be personal revenge depending on who his friends are, it's not against "the rules".

JBK405

Welcome to another episode of the Carmela Pity Party 😂

BND

@John Wayne you can still sympathize with them when they're having a genuine family moment.

BND

Uh David Chase explicitly tried to make Tony and his family more unlikable in the later seasons because he exactly did not want people sympathizing too much.

John Wayne

same feeling with the scowling when Tony B was connecting on some real truths with Meadow. one minute it's omg I love Tony B, then suspicious as he talks to Meadow b/c you forgot they're related and thought something was going on there. not actually hearing what they're saying

John

it sucks that you guys can’t enjoy the good moments.. “this would be cute if it were a normal family” accepting that they’re criminals and sociopaths makes it much more enjoyable for the viewers of these reactions

Zach D

6:17 well, remember that Pussy was a rat, it's not like Tony killed him just because. It was not expected for bosses to take care of the families of people they whack, even less if they are snitches, so really Tony is already going out of his way to help her out as it is. Hell, he's more present in her life than her so called friends like Rosalie and Carmella that completely ditched her out of their lives.

Gaboxxy

I will be honest as I grew older, I sort of got annoyed with family gatherings/ parties. I used to enjoyed them as a teen but as an adult they annoying me a lot lol maybe except for Christmas.

Jack SV

Such deja vu to all my family's big gatherings. All the joy and drama and snark

bondbond53

nothing to do with sopranos but i just watched ep8 of cowboy bebop and i literally choked up on my soup when you started guessing the name of a certain character and lola screamed out 'TATIANA'. look, i don't really like my name but i never thought of it as posh or as it similar to vivienne 😂 well the name you were looking for was victoria and that's my cousin's name, so close enough lol but it was hilarious to see lola's confidence screaming the name ngl anyway only this episode and a bunch of severance and i'll be up to date with all the shows, let's see how long that lasts. i miss the discussions in the comments.

sand_fl

Such season 1 vibes with this episode. The back half of season 5 goes so damn hard.

Johnny_Raincloud

just in time to eat my Sohoour, thanks LM

Bambooplant