The Sopranos 3x12 Reaction
Added 2024-12-23 01:32:31 +0000 UTC
Comments
I forgot to mention this in an earlier comment, but this actually isn't the first time we've heard this story about Tony robbing the card game. Richie Aprile had mentioned it back in season two, when he was trying to talk about how Tony owes him more respect and deference despite being the current boss. Richie mentioned that it was he who prevented Feech La Manna from taking revenge on Tony after the robbery. You need to put all the different retellings together to try and get the full picture.
JBK405
2024-12-26 16:24:15 +0000 UTCi only responded to yours because the world has a vendetta against you
Zach D
2024-12-26 00:00:05 +0000 UTCyou’re very aggressive, these keyboards sure bring out the toughness.. doubt you’d speak to anyone that way to their face😘
Zach D
2024-12-25 23:56:16 +0000 UTCThere's a comment just below saying "season 4 is my favourite because....." Why didn't you respond and tell them they're lame? I see comments like that all the time so fuck off.
Jay
2024-12-25 10:53:31 +0000 UTC“wasn’t looking for a discussion about it” mate you’re posting in a public thread..
Zach D
2024-12-25 04:35:24 +0000 UTCWTF? I wasn't looking for a discussion about it. Hence the "if anyone is curious". Translation - click the link so you don't have to ask and give stuff away. Get a grip.
Jay
2024-12-24 22:58:04 +0000 UTCalso, we are all looking forward to their reaction to the entire show, that’s the point, so your original point is lame bc we can’t/won’t discuss it
Zach D
2024-12-24 21:04:54 +0000 UTCYeah I agree. There are definitely some bizarre scenes that leave you a little confused (throughout the series). I think that’s party what lends itself to being rewatchable. There’s so much that doesn’t make sense or isn’t picked up on during the first viewing and becomes clear after multiple watches
windyMelon
2024-12-24 21:04:06 +0000 UTCwas more the first response to your post, which looks as though it’s been deleted
Zach D
2024-12-24 21:03:14 +0000 UTCIt’s a weird scene regardless of intent. The first time I watched it was completely confused too, enough to online and ask about it. And I wasn’t the only one. Which means it was objectively confusing.
Julien
2024-12-24 18:59:22 +0000 UTCIf you're giving out about spoilers, I linked to the song. It's not a clip/scene from the show. No spoilers, so calm the fuck down.
Jay
2024-12-24 12:36:20 +0000 UTCPine Barrens absolutely deserves all the love it gets, but Amour Fou kicks its ass every day of the week. PB does what it does very well, but the second half of AF has so many amazing scenes one after another, each very different from the others, hitting so many different notes: Tony & Gloria's final fight — the card game heist — Chris confronting Tony — Tony & Ralph's doublespeak sit-down — Melfi's session where the penny drops for Tony — Patsy's test drive. There's high drama, action, tension, psychology, love, depression, idiocy. Not to mention great little monologues like Ralph telling the little shit-heels the old story about Feech's game. Easily top 3 episode for me, some of the best writing they've ever done.
Abacus
2024-12-24 09:50:33 +0000 UTCknock it off wtf is this
Zach D
2024-12-24 09:12:09 +0000 UTCOnly took 3 seasons, but Chris is finally getting the love he deserves.
Cole
2024-12-24 00:15:54 +0000 UTCHe's definitely a guy you want on your side in a fight.
Marcus Cato
2024-12-23 21:56:37 +0000 UTCThat's a great observation. For some people like Gloria, who I suspect has a severe case of BPD like Livia, and amount of abuse can be tolerated. The one thing they can't deal with is abandonment. It's so frickin' sad. And Annabella Sciorra really nailed this part.
Marcus Cato
2024-12-23 21:54:56 +0000 UTCYeah I really like Patsy as a character. Felt very real and natural in the setting. The opera is Bajazet by Vivaldi, and this aria in particular is called ‘ Spoza son dispprezzata’. It was used at the end of ‘Pine Barrens’ as well. I think the Sopranos has maybe the best soundtrack of any show honestly, sublime choices throughout.
Darrach
2024-12-23 21:51:12 +0000 UTCThanks for translating those lyrics. I'm always amazed at their ability to choose music that is so close to with the story. Which opera is that from? Dan Grimaldi was one of my favorite minor characters in the Sopranos. In real life he actually teaches math and computer science.
Marcus Cato
2024-12-23 21:46:51 +0000 UTC“Let’s do it before the crank wears off” The wise words that signify a plan bound for success.
Darrach
2024-12-23 19:21:11 +0000 UTCThis is just a fantastic episode, and apparently one of David Chases favourites in the whole show! The lyrics of the Italian opera scoring the scene with Carmela at the art gallery go as follows: “ I am a scorned wife, faithful, yet insulted. Heavens, what did I do? Yet he is my love, My husband, my beloved, My hope.” Pretty perfect for Carmelas arc this season and her feelings. I don’t know if I agree with the notion that Ralphie ‘set up’ Jackie Jr deliberately in order for him to get himself killed. It just seems a little too much of a Machiavellian masterclass, as opposed to just telling a story without thought to how Jackie would take it to heart. An interesting thing I noticed is that Ralph was crying when telling Rosalie that Jackie Jr is into drugs, setting the pieces in motion for a reason he’d turn up dead. I do think Ralph is a psychopath but it’s interesting to see a genuine emotional reaction from him. Gloria once again with the “poor you”, a very ‘Livia’ turn of phrase which she had said at the zoo previously, which Tony reacted to at the time but only for a moment. The signs were all there to be sure! Annabella Sciorra got an Emmy nomination for her performance as Gloria, and it’s no wonder why. Later in her career, she was the key witness in the trial against Harvey Weinstein, testifying that he raped her, and so she is considered a vital figure in the #MeToo movement. I think you nailed the interpretation of the final scene with Patsy, he is returning to his wife with groceries, just another day for him, whilst Bob Dylan’s ‘Return to Me’ plays him out. Bob Dylan actually approached David Chase for this, wanting to cover a Dean Martin song to be used in the show! Patsy has a very ordinary face and demeanour like you said, which makes him a perfect candidate for threatening Gloria and for it to come across as deadly serious: Paulie with his silver wings, Silvio with his Pompadour hair, Chris with his demeanour, all can be comedic and played for laughs. Not so with Patsy. Just ice-cold promises of murder and mutilation, and it “won’t be cinematic”. The scene with Tony and Ralph is so good and almost funny in how they are going back and forth over who is more responsible for Jackie and therefore who needs to put the final order out: “You’re the boss”, “it was your card game” etc.
Darrach
2024-12-23 19:14:25 +0000 UTCThere's one subplot in season 4 I'm really looking forward to. If anyone is curious - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zK8JI9wy05E
Jay
2024-12-23 17:46:05 +0000 UTCDavid Chase said that the moment Jackie Jr stranded his friend and left him for dead was the quintessential Sopranos moment.
Johnny_Raincloud
2024-12-23 16:50:50 +0000 UTCHope you two don’t stop the sopranos reactions anytime soon, I will say I understand the concerns for how dark it gets and the general vibe of the show does get darker as it progresses but there won’t be any HEAVY scenes like the middle of s3 as we saw
Knot
2024-12-23 15:27:48 +0000 UTCThat's why I'm only a "little" sad for Dino, because he still made his own choices. But it was Jackie's idea in the first place, and we had a whole scene of him convincing Dino. In the previous episodes Dino has been the one who always says they need to show respect to Chris as a Made Man, despite Jackie complaining about how Chris only got where he is because of Tony. Dino's the one who tries to pass on info to Chris to 'show respect', while Jackie gets huffy when he does. Everybody else says Dino is a bad influence on Jackie because they want to believe that Jackie is a "good kid" who is going to stay out of this iife. What we SEE, however, is that Jackie has been trying to get into this life all along and Dino's kinda hanging around. He's still a schmuck all on his own, but he was a schmuck who mainly stayed in his own lane.
JBK405
2024-12-23 14:55:32 +0000 UTCSeason 4 is my favorite season cause of Tony Soprano/Vic Mackey crossover.
MichaelChiklisCares
2024-12-23 12:32:24 +0000 UTCTony misquoting "Amour Fou" as "Mo-fo" is definitely my favourite running joke in this episode. Do watch out for more of these malapropisms in future episodes because they're the funniest piece of Sopranos writing. The card game is definitely the most memorable scene in this episode. The first time watching this, I also thought Ralph was trying to set up Jackie. But the more I think about it the more it looks like it's just Ralph's twisted idea of being a father figure. It seems like the captains of the Aprile crew seems to overestimate Jackie Jr. a lot (Richie ponders why he can't get a son like Jackie Jr. in season 2). Tony's hesitation to decide if he wants to kill Jackie Jr. is of course, mostly because he's his best friend's son. But I wonder if Tony also sees himself in him (football player, dropped out, robbed card game). I'm glad the two of you are slowly coming around towards Christopher "Scott" Moltisanti as well. It's easy to hate him with how he treats Adriana, but there are moments like in this episode that reminded me that he's a boy looking for his lost father.
IanJ
2024-12-23 11:56:51 +0000 UTCThese last three episodes of the season are some of my favourite in the show. Really looking forward to the next reaction and the commentary has been great. "I don't like them, but I do care about them" is the best way to sum up how I feel about a lot of the characters. There's definitely something to enjoying watching them suffering. There's a very comic/tragic aspect to it, watching people deal with problems of their own making. Even goofy episodes like Pine Barrens are funny partly because the characters deserve it, Paulie especially.
Mark M
2024-12-23 10:46:50 +0000 UTCYep, the bit at the end with Patsy driving away was exactly that. It was just to show you how casual these guys are with their line of work. Threaten to murder a lady, pick up the groceries, do the laundry. Very productive day!
windyMelon
2024-12-23 10:30:43 +0000 UTCA couple of nice thematic touches in this episode: The mother: Tony mis-speaks 'Amour fou' as "our mofo" — mofo being short for 'motherfucker'. While Tony makes it clear "I don't wanna fuck my muddah!" it is a subtle nod to the thing that becomes clear to Tony in this episode, that Gloria, the woman he's been fucking, is like his mother. Add to that the Buddhism payoff — while Gloria's Buddhism has been mentioned before, it was in the context of "joyful participation in the suffering of the world" (mirroring Livia's bleak "it's all a big nothing" attitude). In this episode, in the big dramatic scene in which Gloria is almost killed and begs Tony to do it, we have her statue of the Buddha highlighted prominently. A key feature of Buddhist beliefs about death is that we are reincarnated. Narratively, Gloria is the "reincarnation" of Livia. Livia died at the beginning of the season, and then Gloria appears in Tony's life. The father: A major theme of this season has been Tony as a father and protector. We've had episodes with him trying to father/protect both Meadow and AJ; Tony *not* giving Tracee the protection she was looking for; but most significantly, Tony is a father-figure to Jackie Jr throughout the season, acting as a direct stand-in for Jackie Jr's father to carry out his wishes to keep him away from the mob. This is contrasted with Ralph who is a negative father-figure, taking the place of JJ's father in his mother's bed, and guiding him towards criminality. A great touch in this episode is everything Sunshine says at the heist before he is shot — he repeatedly says things relating to father/son stuff: the most noticeable one is "victory has a hundred fathers, but defeat is an orphan" but most meaningful is "if you can keep your head while all those around you are losing theirs". This is the first line from the famous poem "If—" by Rudyard Kipling, which is direct advice from a father to a son on how to be a man. As Sunshine recites this line, JJ shoots him dead, symbolically rejecting the fatherly advice, and potentially flushing his life down the toilet as a result.
Abacus
2024-12-23 10:05:18 +0000 UTCTony doesn't think Ralphie will go easy on him. They both know that what Jackie did warrants a whacking — Chris is right, and there's no two ways about it — but both Tony and Ralph want to shove responsibility for the decision to the other. They throw it back and forth like a tennis ball until Tony plays the trump card of pointing out that he made Ralph a captain and it's up to him to make the call. Also giving Ralph back the gun that he gave to JJ emphasises the point that Ralph guided Jackie into criminality while Tony tried to keep him out of it. Tony is very resentful of Ralph for this (and other stuff obv) and takes this opportunity to rub it in Ralph's face, that's why Ralph looks so devastated when he leaves Satriale's because he knows it's up to him to have his girlfriend's son killed, and he can't fob the decision off onto Tony. The girls' reading of this scene was pretty accurate.
Abacus
2024-12-23 09:55:23 +0000 UTCYeah and it's just a great scene in general that muddles what Tony really wants. I think it's clear part of him did want to punish Ralphie by throwing this to him. But his first impulse when Chris suggested getting revenge was to reject it. Maybe by the time he met Ralphie, he thought about it more and figures, similar to killing Ralphie over a stripper, it'll clearly meet resistance at large if he completely lets Jackie off. He said he would support Ralphie's decision either way but it doesn't make what he wants particularly overt.
Veya
2024-12-23 08:47:21 +0000 UTCInteresting that Melfi told Tony that Gloria loved him when she has spent all series so far trying to get Tony to admit what his mother tried to do to him and has never said that about her. Also his pretty muted reaction to the whole Jackie Jr. thing, and pawning it off the Ralphie feels in line with the season's examination of limitation of empathy.
Veya
2024-12-23 08:37:54 +0000 UTCThe scene between Tony and Ralphie is a masterclass in terms of subtext.
Thomas De Peña
2024-12-23 08:12:43 +0000 UTCAnnabella Sciorra was nominated for an Emmy for her role as Gloria. She was extraordinary. Also wanted to point out that Tony was allowing Ralphie to choose Jackie Jr.'s fate because he thinks Ralphie will go easy on him and he wont be the one that will be blamed for that. He still feels obligated to his Father to look for him.
Farbod
2024-12-23 08:06:31 +0000 UTCMy favorite episode up to this point in the show. Gloria is my favorite guest character maybe in any show ever, Annabella Sciorra was robbed of an Emmy for this episode. Such a raw and devastating performance (in an amazing way).
Thomas De Peña
2024-12-23 07:43:17 +0000 UTCI have always enjoyed that last scene with Tony and Carmela. It's one of those moments in the show where the song selection is just perfect for that specific time in the story. The acting, the editing, the song lyrics just come together so well. Tony comes home with a sense of relief, and appreciation for the comfort of home, after all the drama with Gloria, Jackie Jr., and the thoughts Dr. Melfi left on his mind about realizing how Carmela was his one right choice. He walks in, sees his wife sitting at the table. The camera cuts to Carmela, and the lyrics to the song are "Return to me", and then they are both standing in the kitchen, not saying anything, but it's as if the song is speaking for him with the words: "My darling, If I hurt you I'm sorry." It's such a sweet moment. A great way to uplift the mood at the end of a crazy episode. Sometimes it just feels so good to be home.
Michael Chavira
2024-12-23 06:09:02 +0000 UTCYeah, completely agree. And I'd like to reiterate for other people: I'm not saying Chris is a great guy, he's a piece of shit like the rest of them. But since the girls were talking about some of the good things about him in this video, I wanted to remind this small positive aspect about him. Also Chris is damn good shot. I mean, bam, headshot on the first try.
enchantertim
2024-12-23 06:03:27 +0000 UTCCarmela's arc is definitely the most relatable in the show for me (my situation not as extreme as her of course, I don't have a mob boss for a husband and live through his illicit money). I think at some point in their life, everyone struggles with wanting two contradictory things at once, realizing it's not possible, and trying to find that happy medium where everything can still reasonably work. It's what makes her character so fascinating to me and why the YouTube comments they mentioned in the discussion rubs me the wrong way. Yeah, she's a hypocrite, so what? That's what makes her such a wonderfully complex character. Worse than Tony? Doubtful.
IanJ
2024-12-23 05:38:20 +0000 UTCThe relationship and contrast between Tony and Chris is one of the most interesting in the entire show and they both are characters with different sympathetic and deplorable qualities. Usually other shows with a similar dynamic makes the moral foiling more clear and established. On one hand Tony is more caring towards people outside of his circle and less callous about the damage he does with real self-reflection and guilt occasionally. He also cares more about innocents and animals and kids. One the other hand, he as you pointed out, unlike Chris, he doesn't actually seem to really care or encourage Carmela to have her own thing outside of the house or just seem aware of her emotional needs in general. On the other hand, while Chris seems more attentive towards Adriana's needs, we see him more willing to hit her, while Tony has never hit Carmela (she mentions it in this episode) and has a different type of softness towards her. Chris also upholds the Mafia rules and as they pointed out, holds more loyalty towards the mafia despite it being disillusioned with it already. Tony seems more willing to play fast and loose with the customs and already had to compromise his personal morals (sparing Ralphie) for the organization and doesn't seem to actually value it as much. Their contrast runs even deeper than that but can't really elaborate on it yet.
Veya
2024-12-23 05:34:05 +0000 UTCI think of all the main characters, my opinion of Chris can't be fully formed unless I take all seasons into account.
Damien Fenton
2024-12-23 05:27:59 +0000 UTCI also think it’s a full circle moment for Patsy from the beginning of the season and also mirrors Jackie Jr’s story He went from standing outside of Tony’s home ready to shoot him in episode 1 to now threatening Gloria with a gun to protect Tony. He was depressed that Tony killed his twin brother
space colon
2024-12-23 05:27:20 +0000 UTCOf all the guest actors who have come and gone over the seasons, I think Annabella Sciorra is extraordinary. Notice she is trying to hide a little smirk when Tony pushes her against the wall in her office. She gets a thrill from playing Tony and provoking his anger. She only gets genuinely rattled when Tony says it's over between them.
Damien Fenton
2024-12-23 05:18:10 +0000 UTCTony’s relationship with Gloria parallels Janice’s relationship with Richie, they’re both drawn to people with similar behavior to their opposite sex parents Hearing the way Gloria talks about her niece and nephew is very revealing, same with Richie and his son
space colon
2024-12-23 05:17:08 +0000 UTCIn that last scene, I totally expected Gloria to ram a Merc into Patsy's car.
Damien Fenton
2024-12-23 05:14:08 +0000 UTCthe show isn’t secretive, it isn’t hiding anything from you. the last scene was showing you how normal it is for them to be insane one minute and “normal” the next
Zach D
2024-12-23 05:08:27 +0000 UTCTo add to some positive things about Chris: I'd like to remind everyone that Chris legitimately tried to support Ade in her music career pursuit in season 1. He's fine with her being a "professional" woman I think. And in this season he gave her a club for her to manage, to continue her music interest. So there's that.. And I think the only reason he told Ade to not work in the restaurant anymore this season was because imo he thought this waitress job was "below" her (since he's become a made man), not that she shouldn't have a job and she should be a stay-at-home housewife or something. You might still say that's rude but within this type of environment, ehh that's nothing really. He also slapped her, has a goomar as well and is a piece of shit in general but imo he at least genuinely tries to support her professional career and compared to the others I'd say that's at least a small plus :D
enchantertim
2024-12-23 04:53:28 +0000 UTCNever noticed it was Matush that ditched Jackie lol
cheech
2024-12-23 04:52:31 +0000 UTCYou probably watched the edited version but in the car Jackie wanted to back out and Dino shot it down and convinced them to strike while the drugs were still active. Dino was the one Tony and Carmela always saw as the bad influence for Jackie. Even Ralphie mentioned it here. The Ralphie thing is a bit weird. I don't think I've seen that reading that he did it on purpose too often. I agree with you that it doesn't seem to be the case given his reaction after he had his conversation with Tony, he walked outside and looked dejected and lost, not even caring some dude bumped into him where normally with his temper he would probably make something out of it. Also it seems just more trouble than it's worth, morality aside. He has to comfort and deal with Rosalie's feelings and a very unstable home life. Doesn't seem logical on his end.
Veya
2024-12-23 04:37:12 +0000 UTCYou two aren't the only ones to think that Ralph was trying to push Jackie Jr. into doing something stupid by telling him that story. A LOT of people think the same. But I personally don't think so, or at least not that he expected Jackie to do anything THIS stupid. This situation has put Ralph in a very bad position, and he's smart enough at Crime to know that there is no "good" ending for him here. He knows that Tony already hates him, and he also knows that nobody will choose him over Tony, so he's got nothing to gain by continuing to antagonize Tony. I think Ralph was just being a little rude to Jackie Jr. because Ralph is a rude person in general, and he wasn't being a good father figure because he just isn't a good father figure in general. He didn't expect it to spiral out of control like this. I do honestly feel a little bad for Dino, Jackie's friend that got shot on the street after the robbery. He seemed to have at least SOME idea that they were in over their heads, and he's never been the one causing problems before. If Jackie hadn't pushed him into this, I think he probably would have continued being a low-rent street criminal without ever attracting enough attention to be worth killing. It was Jackie's ego that got them in trouble. The scene where Patsy Parisi threatened Gloria was brilliant. I particularly love his final line: that it won't be "cinematic" when he kills her. Gloria has built up this fantasy of being murdered by a powerful mafia boss after a torrid love affair. It's almost romantic. They make movies about that kind of thing. And here comes this schlub who says that it'll be him instead, and it won't be pretty or romantic. And that's even more terrifying to Gloria than the actual death threat. The idea that it will be a boring murder carried out by an uninterested -- and frankly unattractive -- hitman. And yes, the last scene was meant to show the split in his life. That after he's done threatening, he just goes on with his life and calls his wife.
JBK405
2024-12-23 04:30:25 +0000 UTCI think it's ambiguous if Tony did care about Jackie Jr. PRIOR to finding out he cheated on Meadow. But it seemed to lessen after that, which is rich considering what he himself does. Some self-loathing there perhaps. But remember that his initial impulse is to not order Jackie Jr's death, which can imply something there, since it would be the reverse normally and why Chris called him out on it. If he wanted to save face he would just instantly order it. Carmela's arc is one of the most realistic and powerful in terms of how people often compromise and find a middle ground in their minds to move on and keep aspects of their existing habits and just say okay "well it's something", even if it's still complicit. People outside of the mob life do this every day even if the links of complicity are less immediate. And honestly I don't think Tony not listening to Gloria's problems means he doesn't care about her. I think that's a reasonable assumption for most people but premature for a guy whose definition of love is partially warped by his relationship with his mother. He isn't attentive to Carmela's problems often but we're given small indication that he does care. He gave in to Carmela's demands for the college donation when he sensed she was depressed even after he spent all episode rejecting it. He only hits Gloria after she insults Carmela. I mean frankly, he COULD have also just killed Gloria there and gotten away with it. Something in him still didn't want to even when he had a chance to finish what he tried to do to his mother. He does have narcissism, though, just like Livia and Janice. It's balanced with his other traits, and depending on the day or situation, it's a toss up to see which one wins out. Also remember his panic attacks are a big part of his character and started the entire show.
Veya
2024-12-23 04:24:04 +0000 UTChard to believe it only gets heavier from here. you guys are in the shit now.
flawlessmisery
2024-12-23 04:10:43 +0000 UTCI think Tony does love Jackie Jr, and he hates Ralph. I feel like the convo between them is 1. Tony trying to steer it towards letting Jackie live and realizing Ralph does too, and 2. intimating to Ralph that he blames him for this.
Mitchell
2024-12-23 03:56:38 +0000 UTCI also was waiting for something to happen in that last scene with Patsy. I think it is to show that these guys are able to do the things they do, in this case, pull a gun and threaten one’s life, and go about their day like nothing happened. For them, this is the life they chose and things like that are just another day at the office.
LegacyFilms
2024-12-23 02:22:25 +0000 UTCPine Barrens gets all the love, but I think this episode is every bit as good.
Marcus Cato
2024-12-23 01:44:44 +0000 UTC
