Shogun Episode 10 Reaction
Added 2024-06-11 00:04:58 +0000 UTC
Comments
I believe it is simplistic to simply apply the terms good and evil on characters. Human beings are much more complicated than that. But there are actions that may be considered evil, as their result may cause much more harm than good. The excuse that a lot of "evil" actions will cause a lot of "good" further down the line, is a very flimsy one and philosophically can not stand i believe, as the end result is far from certain, and therefore all you might be left with is all the evil that has taken place. Toranaga has been doing "evil" actions for a long time now, and by the end of the show, we still haven't seen the good to come out of them, only his "vision" of the "good" that will eventually come. The even worse thing, is that he is not just doing evil actions directly himself (as evidenced by his torture and executions in Ajiro, only as part of a trick to keep close to him someone who makes him laugh), he is callously manipulating people close to him (sometimes even relatives) and leading them to their deaths, while he is hiding behind his temperate and calm facade, waiting to seize the moment to get all the power for himself. His treatment of Mariko in particular i find quite despicable (even for that time period). Not only did he manipulate her father to kill Ochiba's father, he then took a woman who was obviously traumatized and psychologically vulnerable and turned her into a "suicide bomber" for his purposes. His callous manipulation is especially evident in that scene where he confronts Mariko about her relationship to John and forces her to chose between them. The moment he sensed that there might be something in her life that may make her in love with life (as a new love might do), he immediately interferes to stop that and remind her of her obligation to him and to her dead family. That was a truly despicable move. (Not to mention how he deprived her son of her mother. Mariko's son is an altogether unfortunate subject in the show, as i feel that Mariko's neglect of him -in the pursuit of her perceived obligation to her lord and her dead family- is also truly awful) A fantastic show all in all, with the one caveat that i'm not sure that the show itself realizes how sad and used Mariko actually was. I got the feeling that they tried to show her death as having a deeper and higher meaning, when in reality it was all orchestrated and manipulated into happening by one man, for his ambition to become Shogun.
AlexBoss
2024-06-12 08:56:51 +0000 UTCThe actual historical events are very interesting. So there's definitely potential. It all comes down to if they're able to weave a satisfying narrative at the end of it. The book ended here but it's not like we only make TV shows based on books. S2 onwards being original is not necessarily an issue at all as long as the writers are good.
Marco St
2024-06-12 05:22:55 +0000 UTCThat's fair, I'd say the lesser evil, that's the best I can do for a politician :D
Sam
2024-06-11 22:41:45 +0000 UTCI mean he just murdered a bunch of innocent people just to put trick on john. Amazing chracter but I wouldn't consider him "good"
T0ast
2024-06-11 22:36:40 +0000 UTCThey actually need to. Gen V is pretty much mandatory if you want to watch the next season of The Boys.
MaxVSTheGames
2024-06-11 22:26:46 +0000 UTCThey said The Boys, House of the Dragon, and The Bear are all coming soon so they'll be reacting to those then there will be a poll for a long run show.
BNJ
2024-06-11 11:50:14 +0000 UTCthe heart of this show always felt so intertwined with mariko’s story so having a s2 and distancing the narrative from her might be a disservice. i’d be happy to be wrong though. hiroyuki sanada (toranaga) is tremendous so that alone might be worth it
Sebastian
2024-06-11 09:16:06 +0000 UTCI won't dismiss it without trying it, we'll see what they can do.
Nina
2024-06-11 04:08:44 +0000 UTCI agree. It would be great if the girls react to Gen V before the next season of The Boys.
refo44
2024-06-11 03:13:09 +0000 UTCIt's always concerning, but I choose to have faith in this production!
Isaac
2024-06-11 02:26:36 +0000 UTCThe creators of the show said they believe they have a compelling story to tell for the next two seasons but they’re not certain. They said they have assurances from the studio that if they dont think the story is compelling they can walk away from the deal. Hopefully that is an indication that they arent renewing the show just for a paycheck.
Mahad Ali
2024-06-11 01:57:45 +0000 UTC“But thankfully the wind” refers to rebirth. Mariko’s part of the poem was about the necessity of death and how all flowers must eventually fall. Once they fall, however, the wind takes the pollen and seeds and spreads it around to create new plants which creates new flowers. So the dead flower doesn’t simply rot jn the ground. Thanks to wind it spawns new flowers and new life. Much in the same way Mariko’s death spawned a new future for japan. Atleast that is my interpretation of the poem.
Mahad Ali
2024-06-11 01:53:44 +0000 UTC"I feel like I still don't know Toranaga" I think that's probably intentional, after all, nobody is supposed to find his secret heart. I think we can catch glimpses of it when he speaks of Mariko, the look he gave Hiromatsu before killing himself or in his last conversation with Yabu. Although him manipulating his allies the same way he does his enemies to achieve his goal, paints a pretty good picture of what type of person he is I'm intrigued about how they're gonna handle the next seasons, I thought this ended perfectly. If they drop the ball then I can just pretend this show only has one season lol
HenryM
2024-06-11 01:45:40 +0000 UTC"Last episode ended with a bang"... too soon
HenryM
2024-06-11 01:28:02 +0000 UTCI think my view is contrary to that of most people: Toranaga is actually a particularly simple character because Ishido's judgment of him is basically correct. Toranaga is someone who will sacrifice everyone but himself (including his own wife and children) to become Shogun (to achieve supreme power). The so-called "for Japan" and "for peace" are just his grandiose excuses as a warlord/politician. All his schemes in the series are also aimed at legitimizing his own regime. For example, he previously pretended to surrender, deceiving even Hiromatsu and letting him commit suicide, just to disguise himself as having no ambition or aggression. Mariko's death was for the same purpose: he needed Ishido to act against his own people first to justify himself. In my view, all his schemes involve continuously sacrificing his own people to achieve an uncertain outcome. A good strategy, in my opinion, should change the military strength between the "enemy" and "us". However, all of Toranaga's actions are merely to put himself on the side of legitimacy and justice, which I don't think is that important. In other words, he is exchanging heavy costs (human lives) for mismatched benefits. Therefore, I see Toranaga as a very disgusting and despicable character, with little humanity in him. When he says, "Maybe John is destined to stay in Japan," he is just expressing his own thought that for his military interests, he must forcibly keep John in Japan. Destroying John's ship was to cut off his way out of Japan, even though John saved his life twice (once while escaping Osaka, and once during an earthquake). This is how he "repays" John. He exploits his son's foolishness and Hiromatsu's loyalty only to complete his scheme of presenting himself as the righteous party. But in fact, his son's death and Hiromatsu's death did not achieve his intended effect. Even the old Portuguese missionary could see through his purpose, and Ishido was not fooled by Toranaga at all. The most outrageous is Toranaga's psychological manipulation of Mariko's suicide. I won't even discuss how disgraceful this is morally; even in a historical series, it makes me very uncomfortable. Thus, my feelings about this show are very complex. In my view, Shogun is a story about how Toranaga, for his own selfish interests, manipulates his subordinates to either die or end up in extremely tragic situations. By the time I reached episode 10, I was even hoping John could muster the courage to kill Toranaga at the cost of his own life, though that clearly wouldn't align with historical facts.
Tsunemori Kiriko
2024-06-11 01:22:48 +0000 UTCDefinitely Interview with the Vampire and for the love of God Banshee
PamRenea
2024-06-11 01:20:04 +0000 UTCwhen he mentioned "an era of great peace" and his tendency to win conflicts with minimal casualties, it made me believe this guy is genuinely good. the ending shot was just perfect. the sound of water, the birds, the music, the camera movement, and him appearing as big as the mountains all add to the grandeur, perfectly echoing: "it's lonely at the top" everything is perfection.
Sam
2024-06-11 01:11:50 +0000 UTCFor long show poll suggestion: The Sopranos. Among the greatest shows, probably the greatest. Easily rivals The Wire (better in some ways, worse in others) and usually #1 or #2 on all time greatest show lists/publications/analysis. Also, it's hugely influential and changed the medium. A lot of cinematic qualities of modern TV (post 2000s) are pretty much because of this show.
Veya
2024-06-11 01:01:29 +0000 UTCToranaga literally feels like Varys in season 1. You have literally no idea why this guy does anything. We only gets glimpses but they kept his heart secret...just like he had always done
Danny
2024-06-11 00:49:38 +0000 UTCYeah I was thinking the same. I don’t know why they would make more seasons when it seems like a complete story. Only time will tell if future seasons will be any good.
Jack SV
2024-06-11 00:38:12 +0000 UTCAs much as I loved this show, I'm not sure I'm interested in more seasons, it feels like a very complete story to me and I see no unfinished character arcs. Yes, technically the war hasn't happened yet but it has basically already been told to you how that will go. The only character whose future is a little bit of a question mark to me is Ochiba, but that's relatively minor.
Nina
2024-06-11 00:30:37 +0000 UTCThey talk about it starting from 0:25 in the video.
Nina
2024-06-11 00:27:13 +0000 UTCI hope Gen V is next since the boys is coming back soon.
Jack SV
2024-06-11 00:15:24 +0000 UTCAny idea what the girls will be reacting to after this? Still holding out hope for For All Mankind at some stage.
Damien Fenton
2024-06-11 00:12:17 +0000 UTCYou guys should watch Interview With The Vampire show that’s on AMC. It’s the best tv show out right now.
Zachary Beverly
2024-06-11 00:09:55 +0000 UTC
