Black Sails 3x07 Reaction
Added 2024-03-19 01:13:40 +0000 UTC
Comments
Fyi no pirate republic existed and survived. Sure might have been one or two somewhere lasting very short but none of existed survived colonial conquest. It’s hard for me to say this kind of pirate republic they have In the show existed but there have been some but again good luck fighting European nations that have armadas of naval ships and experience at war. If there’s one thing Europe was good at it was war lol.
Melkor
2024-03-20 14:06:10 +0000 UTCSo, having listened to the discussion, here’s the final thing I’ll say about Eleanor. Again, I totally get what you are saying, and I don’t even necessarily disagree! While I don’t think I would change the example Lola gave - of not seeing Eleanor give the order to the soldiers confronting Anne - because I think us hearing it when Max does is what gives it impact. At the same time, I do think we could have used more scenes with just her. Her alone in her room at Nassau, reflecting on how much things have changed. Showing her interact with more people she would have known before, etc. I think seeing more of that would definitely help it feel less like her character is orbiting Roger’s. That being said, I do still think what we have works and communicates her feelings and thought process well. I imagine there probably were other scenes with her that just ended up in the cutting room floor: there are a lot of characters and a lot is going on, and they have to use the time they have as best as they can. I know on the Fathoms Deep podcast they interviewed one of the show runners/writers, Jon Steinburg, and he talked a little about how every season and character has had moments that he loved that still had to be cut for the sake of time. So I wouldn’t be surprised if moments with Eleanor were among those cut scenes. And as I said in another comment, I do think the writers are being deliberate with the Eleanor and Roger’s relationship. Let’s take what we know of them so far. One, Rogers already has a wife. Not a great start. Two, their interactions started with a BIG power imbalance, and while that has shifted somewhat it hasn’t disappeared either. Three, Rogers knows more or less everything about Eleanor: the sins she’s committed, what she accomplished, etc. But Eleanor doesn’t know him nearly as well in turn. Again, that is showing an uneven nature to their relationship. Fourth, Rogers is Eleanor’s lifeline. That means for her, everything depends on his success, and there is no one else she can turn to. Because if she doesn’t do this with him, she faces the noose. Which isn’t to say there hasn’t been genuine growth between them, and you could argue that Rogers is almost as dependent on her. But despite all of that and whatever feelings they have for each other…these facts about their relationship are also still there. And when you compare it to other relationships on the show, you can really feel how different the Eleanor and Rogers relationship comes across. So I think it is meant to have us question it, whether it works or whether it’s real or if it should be happening at all.
cosmotron
2024-03-20 08:37:35 +0000 UTCI suppose the way he says it gives that impression, combined with the fact that what he’s calling Rogers out on (emotionally hurting Anne) isn’t nearly as awful as what Jack’s choice will lead to (as he himself has admitted).
cosmotron
2024-03-20 02:19:19 +0000 UTCI mean, Jack says word for word "we're all villains in Nassau" which is a bit different than "everyone's a villain in Nassau" in that he's specifically lumping himself into the group with the wording rather than distancing himself with something like "all of the people here" instead. Doesn't seem like much of a high ground, aside from just not liking Rogers or the Anne situation and wanting to talk down to him at least somewhat.
ArtficialFlvrz
2024-03-20 02:04:57 +0000 UTCThis is basically exactly how I feel!
cosmotron
2024-03-19 19:27:44 +0000 UTCTotally understand your feelings on Eleanor this season. Although I’ll say my feelings on my first watch was more “Okay. I get that this is actually totally in character for El to be this way at the moment… doesn’t mean that I like it”. Now of course I won’t go into spoiler territory as we still have a fair bit to go but I will say do trust the writers. Now after rewatching Black Sails many times I actually love ALL of Eleanor’s journey. It’s hard to talk about fully but I do totally get your issues that you both have with her currently and while I do think they are valid (as I also had my issues in my first watch through) I guess what I’m trying to say is ‘let them cook’ 😄 And this is just my personal experience with stories and cast of characters. I can be more forgiving of writers/creators that go into the trope based scenarios with female characters … as long as there is wide variety of other female characters that all have different journeys. There’s a lot of women in this show and they are all written incredibly well. And for me I can ‘dislike’ a character’s journey while also totally understanding the decision. It needs to be at the end of the day make sense and be in character.
Sacha
2024-03-19 18:30:40 +0000 UTCRewatching this season has made me realize how much I liked the governor as a villain.
Isaiah Cox
2024-03-19 10:16:56 +0000 UTC"Say it with your f-ing cravat" :D
rerecros
2024-03-19 06:16:46 +0000 UTC(S3 spoilers) "Inar vf abg tbvat gb or unatrq va gur fgerrgf" Jryc. Guvf vf n uvynevbhfyl jebat fgngrzrag unun.
cosmotron
2024-03-19 02:09:34 +0000 UTCMrs. Mapleton returns! She’s honestly a fun character to have around, even though it’s objectively not great and Max clearly doesn’t feel good about doing it either. Mapleton is smart and scheme-y, and I appreciate that the show doesn’t just forget about her character. It makes sense for her to come back here. I think the conversation she has with Max afterward is interesting too. I don’t think she’s implying that all Max was to Eleanor was someone to whom “all she owed was a fee”, as she only started being someone from whom Eleanor was seeking active information in s2. That’s well after Eleanor and Max broke up. That’s of course assuming that Mapleton is even telling the truth, because I could absolutely see her lying here. Either way, saying something that might be potentially upsetting to Max about her previous relationship with Eleanor doesn’t seem wise, and wouldn’t make sense with what she is actually doing here. Which is trying to get on Max’s good side. So I think it’s really fairly straightforward advice, at least on its face and in the moment. Flint and Rogers on the beach. God, hearing Rogers saying Hamilton’s name is like a stab in the heart, and you can see on Flint’s face the effect hearing it so many times has. Every time Rogers says it you just see it hit in Flint’s eyes. “Without you there would be no me.” “Clever.” “Thank you.” lmao. For real, it hurts hearing Rogers say Thomas’s name over and over. But it’s even harder for Flint to say it himself, and you can tell he kind of has to force the words out. But those words are of course great. Talking about their attempts to change England. How Thomas and Miranda died doing so. “England has shown herself to me. Gnarled and gray and spiteful of anyone who might find happiness under her rule.” Then Rogers talking about playing the part of a villain, as Flint has, is also quite interesting. Both of them playing these roles for the sake of their own side, both vying for control of Nassau. Though Rogers seems far more ready to step into that role of villain than Flint who resisted it for a long time. Not too much to say about the rest, except that the reveal at the end that Vane had already managed to meet with Anne is really great, and makes you so excited for the next episode. Especially with the final bit about how they have to get Jack and the cache, or the war is over before it even started. Man! That one gave me a lot to talk about, and I imagine the next episode will as well. We’re so close to being done with s3 already :( But even my sadness at that fact doesn’t change how much I’m looking forward to the next one!
cosmotron
2024-03-19 01:42:48 +0000 UTC"My name is John Silver. And I've got a long fucking memory" one of my favorite lines of the entire show 🔥 so bad ass
MOB12
2024-03-19 01:42:11 +0000 UTCElsewhere on Nassau, we get the reveal that Eme (one of the former slaves that Scott met on the ship in s1) has been working secretly with Scott as well. It makes perfect sense, and while she has only popped up a few times throughout the seasons, it has been consistent enough for her to feel like an actual person living there, and this only adds to that. Because of course that’s what she’s been doing! It’s a short scene where she interacts with Madi, but I like it, and we also get the added bit that Madi knows Scott is dying. As well as the information that she actually knew Eleanor when she was very small. They played together, even. It makes sense, they’re around the same age. “Now we are on opposing sides of this thing ahead of us, which will get so very bloody.” And then we come to what is probably the biggest scene in the episode. John enters the bar. And begins telling the story. Every bit of it is so good I could just copy it all down, but I’ll only focus on a few specific bits. “I come on a mission of mercy. I come on behalf of Captain Flint.” “Captain Flint is dead.” “Not anymore, he’s not.” Completely with that slow head turn, it’s perfect stuff. Silver gives his warning well. Goes around the room, makes it clear how much he knows…Aaaand then Dufresne shows up. Insults Silver and his speech. The idea that they could be so frightened of Flint, or of Silver. “You were unworthy of even half the attention we paid you.” Silver’s response is to hit him with a mug and stomp his head in with his metal leg, all in front of the terrified crowd (with many of whom being held back by other members of the Walrus crew). I think it’s very interesting that it’s clear how much each stomp hurts Silver physically. It quite literally hurts his leg to do each one, but he does them anyway. “My name is John Silver. And I’ve got a long fucking memory.” What a great fucking line. Can’t wait to see what Lola and Milena think of this whole scene. Of course, then there’s the following one with Flint and Silver. As usual their interactions are so amazingly written. “You were right. The toll it took playing this part. Losing Miranda. The things that losing Miranda drove me to. So I know what you’re feeling right now.” It’s very interesting how much more open Flint has become with Silver already. “There’s this element of this journey into the dark that I’m only just beginning to appreciate.” “What’s that?” “How good it feels.” Welp. That’s…probably not what most people watching were expecting from him. What a statement.
cosmotron
2024-03-19 01:41:44 +0000 UTCi did NOT even pick up on that oh my GOD this show is amazing!!!
TeaDrinker3000
2024-03-19 01:37:38 +0000 UTCWith the Maroon community, Flint has to try and explain how they can move forward without Teach’s fleet, and how the cache can help with that. Of course, he’s convincing, but things halt when he admits that the best plan is to lure the English to this island. “I will not go to them and argue to have that fight all at once, and risk losing everything all at once. Unless I am certain that fight can be won.” I love how the show makes her extremely reasonable in her concerns. It isn’t something where Flint is ‘just so much smarter’ than her or anything like that. Her concerns are legitimate and her points are intelligent. I also appreciate that Flint is up front with her. There is no guarantee they can win. But this is their best chance. And if they are going to take it, now is the time. “So we will have to send the next best thing.” And that cut to Madi being lifted up onto the ship! So great. Rogers and Jack in the cell. I think Rogers’ line about “not wanting to be cast as its villain” is quite interesting in light of how the previous episode highlighted him as being such to quite a few of our characters. Of course, what he’s suggesting is pretty reasonable. Torturing Jack is an option, but this allows him to avoid doing so. And Rogers fully intends to let both Jack and Anne go when this is over. Jack has a great line here, “everyone’s a villain in Nassau. Don’t pretend just because you’re new you’re any different.” Though, I do think he’s arguing as if he has some kind of moral highground here when he absolutely does not. I’m not going to disagree with the statement, but it applies far more to Jack for what he is doing right now. We also learn that Rogers has a wife, but that hasn’t stopped him from getting far too close with Eleanor. Of course, we have no idea what the relationship is like, and considering everything else most of the characters do it’s a pretty small drop in the bucket haha. Aaaaand of course that’s when everything falls apart.
cosmotron
2024-03-19 01:35:40 +0000 UTCOh, great minor detail: in the opening scene, Max is *literally* standing at a crossroads. As she is on many levels.
cosmotron
2024-03-19 01:28:17 +0000 UTCYes! him memorizing the schedule was the first thing that came to mind
HenryM
2024-03-19 01:27:55 +0000 UTCSo, let's talk about Eleanor and Rogers. I don't know what you both say in the discussion, but I want to start by saying I totally get your reservations about it. I'm not trying to say you shouldn't feel that way, and when I was first watching I actually felt similarly. Having rewatched the show many times, I do not like the Woodes Rogers and Eleanor relationship. However, I think it is being written rather deliberately: while there are people out there who like their dynamic, I do think it's also being written in a way that is meant to make the audience feel weird about it. So, while I don't like them as a couple, I do think the writing for it makes sense. Most especially, from Eleanor's perspective. I'll continue to talk about this as the show goes, but for now, this is why I personally think it works (despite not liking the relationship or Rogers himself). I think this episode actually does a lot to demonstrate it as well, so: I think it makes a lot of sense. As does why Eleanor comes here after her conversation with Max, with Max’s words ringing in her mind. Because she just had this whole conversation with Max talking about how much Max is struggling with this choice that involves the betrayal of a loved one, and how similar she and Eleanor have become…coupled with Max pointing out how close she and Rogers have become… Eleanor is thinking that she doesn’t want to be in the position Max is in ever again. She’s done it already. More than once. And all it got her was a prison cell and a noose looming closer and closer. Rogers gave her a second chance. At life. At playing a key part in stabilizing Nassau. At having the chance for vengeance. Moreover, he knows what she’s done. The sins she’s committed. And still he wants her at his side anyway, says he wants her to be his partner in all this. Part of the end of s2 had Eleanor starting to embrace her role as an Englishwoman. She announced as such, that she was “an Englishwoman, my father’s daughter”. And as we saw, aligning herself with pirates and trying to accomplish her goals that way only got her captured. So, can she get what she wants through civilization? Well, it’s kind of the only option left to her. And from her perspective, with all of those feelings and considerations, Rogers would feel like a perfect match. He wants what she wants, right? He respects her and values her counsel, doesn’t he? And isn’t he the exact kind of person she should have known and married, if all had been right in the world? If her mother hadn’t died and her father hadn’t left her, finding a man like Rogers would have been more than she could have hoped for. So she is reminded through Max of the times she betrayed those she loved in the past. Chose her ambition over them. And she has come out the other side having paid for it dearly. So she wants to commit herself to Rogers instead, to not be that person anymore *and* still work to get the stable Nassau she’s always wanted. I also quite like how this scene is shot. How Eleanor literally lays herself bare first. It does a lot of really interesting silent communication. “You ask me once if it is rue what my enemies say of me. That I turn on anyone, no matter how close, to serve my ambition. It was that way once. But I do not wish to be that way ever again. I’m resolved to shed it. I’m resolved to have my word mean something.” Well, she said in a few sentence what I said in many paragraphs lol. But yeah, I think it’s actually quite interesting how much that plays into her relationship with Rogers. She wants to be someone that chooses love, that wouldn’t betray them for her ambition. Because doing that got her father killed just when they had started making a connection. Doing that made her break Max’s heart. Doing that made her break Vane’s heart. And all of those things also led to her almost being killed. She truly doesn’t want to do that again, be that person again.
cosmotron
2024-03-19 01:26:15 +0000 UTCAs soon as Dufresne stood up to Silver we all knew he was dead, I just didn't expect he'd be head stomped by Silver's peg leg, that was brutal
HenryM
2024-03-19 01:24:44 +0000 UTCWoodes: I am now what you were then. S2E10 Flint: ...that reason, could be a bridge between us. Everyone is a monster to someone. Since you are so convinced that I am yours, I will be it. S3E7 Woodes: I am reasonable in seeking peace, but if you insist upon making me your villain, I'll play the part. "We're all villains in Nassau. Don't think because you're new you're any different."
Gustavo
2024-03-19 01:21:04 +0000 UTCwatched the full reaction yesterday and i have to say that you being like "i'm boy, are you okay?" moments after he literally bashes someone's head in was hilarious. but well, dufresne (or howevever his name is spelled) had it coming ngl. this was quite an enjoyable episode and lately you're reactions are way funnier so a win win. will listen to the into and discussion on my way to and back from work tomorrow 😊
sand_fl
2024-03-19 01:19:26 +0000 UTCHey guys, here's my reaction to 3x07 . Go to 4:30 to see Silvy close the chapter on one of my favourite supporting characters 😥 https://youtu.be/4c3Szw-YorY?si=1kS5k2lC1hTF7FnE
TeaDrinker3000
2024-03-19 01:19:17 +0000 UTCGoing a little out of order here. Going to talk about some of the Max and Eleanor scenes, and then move on to Eleanor and Woodes Rogers in another comment. I really love that shot of Max from above, looking down at her heaving shoulders with her hands on the desk? And it’s just emphasizing her heavy breathing to show how much this is affecting her? It’s a small thing but it communicates it so well. Also, she’s in another great dress. And I like how Eleanor is in blue in contrast to Max’s red. And when we do see Max’s face we continue to emphasize how much she hates this. Lying to Anne about Jack being hurt was bad enough, but at least she knew Jack and Anne would be going free afterward. It was truly the way to get through things with the least harm caused. But then this happens. And it’s not as if Max can do anything to stop it at this point - the Governor has set it in motion, it will happen whether Max protests or not. This is one of those moments that I’ve seen some people online not forgive Max for. And I’ve just never understood it? I’m not saying she’s making the morally correct choice, but she was not actively trying to deceive Anne about Jack going free. The agreement was changed after the fact and without Max’s input. This doesn’t mean she isn’t still making a choice. She could probably find a way to warn Anne, or something of that nature, and she is choosing to not interfere. It’s absolutely a morally complicated choice, and there’s a reason they are having Eleanor here because it’s the kind of choice she completely understands. “Either Jack is surrendered with the gold, or Nassau burns.” I mean, what can she even say to that? This is just a really great conversation overall. I love how Max pours herself a drink. How Eleanor hovers behind, clearly understanding what Max is feeling and wanting to comfort her, but being unsure how to. And it’s…strangely sweet to hear that Eleanor gave all of these orders to the guards to try and ensure Anne’s safety as best as she could - even knowing how little that was likely possible - and she did it for Max. Because she understands how Max feels, and despite everything she also still respects and cares about Max (as Max does for her). And Max…pours Eleanor a drink as well. And keeps talking. Saying how she doesn’t know if surviving without Jack would be worse for Anne than dying. And Eleanor comes to join her for a drink, as they look out the window together. Ugh, I love the scenes those two share. There’s so much that underlies their interactions because of their shared past, but it also feels different than things like the Eleanor and Vane interactions. Because they understand each other quite well in a lot of ways, especially now. While Vane I think only ever understood certain parts of Eleanor, the parts he recognized in himself. Later when we continue the Max and Eleanor scene we get one of my favorite Max lines. “That fucking chair. To gain it, it demands you win partners, call them friends, make them promises. To keep it, it demands you break them all. One day when all is settled here we should burn that fucking chair.” And of course, what she says afterward is great too. Talking about how she hated Eleanor for what she had done, but “In this moment I am you.” The choices aren’t exactly the same, but I love the journey that both of them have gone on. To be sitting together in a room like this again, after so much changed between them…and to have this new understanding with each other despite it all? Great writing. Fascinating character dynamic.
cosmotron
2024-03-19 01:18:44 +0000 UTC“My name is John Silver, and I have a long fucking memory.” Not only is this a brilliant line in an amazing moment, but I love the callback to how all of this started. WIth John proving his “long memory” by memorizing the schedule for the Urca gold.
cosmotron
2024-03-19 01:17:06 +0000 UTC
