Vinland Saga 2x07 Reaction
Added 2023-02-26 01:35:21 +0000 UTC
Comments
Speaking facts 29:00 onwards. Being a feminist is good because it promotes positive masculinity, IMO.
Azshana
2023-03-29 08:57:02 +0000 UTCsorry.. i disagree with your morals.. you can be blind saints as u are.. i'll ask you after a theif will steal from you.. with very good reason as surviving... if you ok with it then.. also if kids steal your supply, eventualy if you wont harsh punish them you wont scare thiefs and they'll robe you to the bone.. every cruel thing in this episode as in this season so far was so minimal.. we saw 1 brute hit a kid once with a stick.. realy it was 1000 to the centuary.. cuting of he's arm and let him die few days later wasnt uncommon punishment... pepole just didnt had so much free time to care for a thief.. no body asked him to be a thief! there is old lesson i've heard as a child... end of your actions as the first of your thoughs. i know there situations u must... but then again get ready.. you not asking for cherity.. you take someone else belonging and if get cut.. be ready the owner not be pleased with your reasoning.
amir.cricket
2023-03-24 18:35:50 +0000 UTCIf a third season is release though, it’ll definitely gain back the “action only fans”. Even though season 3 is still incredibly philosophical, fights are more present.
Goob
2023-03-01 17:47:46 +0000 UTC@Sh3nx I agree but I fully believe that Ketil is weak in the fact that he fell into like with society once his son showed up. He chose to beat a kid simply because he feared his son. He chose to do the wrong thing out of fear of societal backlash, which in my opinion, is a sign of weakness in any time period.
Goob
2023-03-01 17:45:52 +0000 UTCi get what you are saying about opening up emotionally and such, but men don't have the luxury of being emotional and getting support the way women do. You can afford some leeway if you have people in your life that love you, however your life will quickly go to shit as a man if you are overly emotional and constantly showing weakness
mike_oxlong
2023-02-27 15:04:07 +0000 UTCwrong. Ketil can't speak his mind BECAUSE he is weak. This is why thors is the ideal man.
mike_oxlong
2023-02-27 14:47:42 +0000 UTCThey wouldn’t enjoy it. Not sorry 🤷🏼
Wanda Did Nothing Wrong
2023-02-27 11:00:59 +0000 UTCThors as well, has the advantage of being a superhuman. he can afford to show his views on such a harsh world because he is that strong. Ketil its not strong, its not superhuman. he, unlike thors cannot afford to show his true self. Ketil its not a coward, he is smart, ketil showing how he truly is would be social suicide in that time. Thors, a superhuman, almost supernatural entity, died because of his ideology. Ketil its just a normal man, he wouldn´t stand a chance, the smart choice its appealing to the societal estigmas of those days. nobody can blame him for that. We are forgetting that crucial context, back then, fitting to societal estigmas was a survival strategy, not like now where we can choose who we are safely.
Sh3nx
2023-02-27 03:47:25 +0000 UTCThe worst flaw of ketil its triying to be what he isn´t. the gender estigma of men in those days its stoic and strong or dominant. Ketil its an empathetic soft man, and doesn´t make it weak at all NOW. but back then that was social suicide, Ketil weakness its less of his fault but the world he lives in, he can´t be the man he is. his weakness its triying to appeal to men. but its hard to blame it, NOT triying to fit in your gender role back then could give you serious consequences. Thor was a very strong man, to a very supernatural degree, its hard to compare it to ketil, who is as anyone can see, a simple flawed man who has way less of a chance of surviving in that world by striving to what he believes compared to thors, and even then, thors, almost a superhuman, died because of it
Sh3nx
2023-02-27 03:36:54 +0000 UTCCensorship,her breast its totally clear in detail in the manga, it would be weird to censor just the breast without looking goofy I would say, but honestly the message its the same, its not necesary to make it clearer, although its a shame some things can´t be replicated 1 to 1 to the manga
Sh3nx
2023-02-27 03:33:24 +0000 UTCvery good stories make gray characters. ketil has so many good things in his personality, even tho a lot of these makes ketil ashamed of himself and a shell of a person he is not. Ketil its in the wrong time and wrong culture where the law of the strongest thrive. where the gender roles of men are very narrow into being the stoic and dominant person in the room. Ketil worst flaws happen because he tries to fit in his gender role even if he isn´t that type of person.
Sh3nx
2023-02-27 03:32:02 +0000 UTCVery patriarchal way of seeing men. you are definetly right there with the thinking of that time since the gender role of men hasn´t changed to this day. mood swings or impulsiveness that drive men to violence its an extreme espectrum of poorly managed emotions + a very poor culture. meanwhile being stoic and logical keeps you on a societal estigma of being a man that can´t show weakness. There is an equilibrium, a strong man its a person capable of defending himself but also capable of showing weakness and admitting flaws, a strong man its one who is in touch with his emotions but this don´t drive his behavior if not needed. a fine man its capable of asking for help. Ketil shows weakness because he tries to be stoic like your societal estigma because he doesn´t want to show weakness. striving for stoicism its what makes ketil a flawed man in this scenario, he can´t speak his mind because he doesn´t want to look weak. Men also live on a societal estigma of being stoic and not showing weakness, and this is also why although men extremely underreport suicidal ideation compared to women, 80% of the total suicides are from men. Being weak makes you less of a man in this world. not good societal estigmas. they hurt us
Sh3nx
2023-02-27 03:23:29 +0000 UTCthis was a damn disturbing episode
Sh3nx
2023-02-27 03:15:01 +0000 UTC@Nikodem You brought up Genghis Khan. There is more of a time gap between the events of Vinland Saga and Genghis Khan than there is between 2023 and WW1. The number of deaths in wars between now and WW1 is far greater (even percentage wise) than the number of deaths between 1014-1227, or any other time period. This alone completely refutes your argument. The assumption that the further we go back in the past the more murderous and warlike people were compared to today is completely false. Numbers do not lie: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1000%E2%80%931499 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1900%E2%80%931944 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1945%E2%80%931989 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_1990%E2%80%932002 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars:_2003%E2%80%93present It's not even close.
Orr Malus
2023-02-27 00:45:41 +0000 UTCPeople who call Ketil weak would probably be more afraid, less prepared and less successful than him in every way were they dropped in the same world he lives in. It's easy to judge him from a nice room watching one single day of a 40 year life on a screen, but almost none of them would manage in the same circumstances. He's been running this place for decades, the business only got bigger and bigger. He's extremely well off and nothing horrendous has happened all of a sudden in all those years. People act like he's some spineless coward but he's basically the peak of what anyone in that time could aspire to live like, and he built it off the small farm his father never felt like expanding. Not everyone sees value in living that way, sure, but he made decisions and investments, gathered property and power, loaned out land, and gathered workers and families together, like all those parents and kids helping him with the harvest in episode 2, and he pretty much created a community. He moved up despite his shortcomings without ever truly turning into something he didn't want to be. Is he perfect? Obviously not, but the idea that he's somehow failed the farm or his people because he's not assertive in his objections to violence is ridiculous. He's basically a financial and industrial pillar.
ArtficialFlvrz
2023-02-26 23:24:05 +0000 UTC@Orr Malus I don't get what exactly is your point with those dates. The big outbreaks of violence I mentioned didn't happen at the beginning of the 11th century, but those still transpired in the same historical period of High Middle Ages. The mentality and morals of people stayed mostly the same. But, fine, let's talk about something closer to 1014. Most of Eurasian nomads had been raiding for hundreds of years by 1014. Mongols were just lucky to have a genius like Genghis Khan unify and lead them, which enabled them to unleash the violence upon so many. Crusades? The mutual violence and discrimination between Muslims and Christians was a thing way before 1096 - Mujahid conquest of Sardinia and the Crusade of Barbastro come to mind. Want something that was even portrayed in the show? St Brice's Day massacre that lead to King Sweyn's invasion. The good Christian, merciful king Ethelred massacred Danish settlers, just because they were Danes. He called it "a most just extermination" of Danes who had settled and "sprung up in this island". Something different? What about Mahmud of Ghazni - read how peaceful Ghaznavid Empire was! What about the slavic raids on Saxony at the beginning of 11th century? Truly, the Danes were just an outlier!
Nikodem
2023-02-26 23:15:12 +0000 UTCI mean, you can have the opinion that it would've been better if it started with him as a slave, then constant flashbacks revealing what happened, but I think the way they did it is completely fine. The only reason you saw it as an "Unecessarily drawn out prequel" is because you read the manga. Season 1 completely works as the beginning of the story for people who don't have preconceived notions of what it should be, following the journey and evolution of thorfinn, going from an innocent, happy kid, to a raging, revenge-obsessed teenager, to a lost, searching for the meaning of life young adult. Sure, if it started with him as a slave, there would be SOME mystery elements regarding his backstory, but then you can start making assumptions that most of the people in the flashbacks are dead/gone. Experiencing it from the true beginning/prequel allows you to experience the story chronologically without constantly having to watch flashbacks to see what happened. I think seeing thorfinn in the state he was in in the beginning of this farm arc is way more impactful because we see how his life affected him. Rather than being introduced to him immediately being that way. There's more of an emotional connection to thorfinn and it allows us to feel happy as he regains more of his humanity due to the time we have already spent with him.
Mukatutu
2023-02-26 22:05:35 +0000 UTC@Nikodem "How can you seriously say that the High Medieval Times were MOSTLY peaceful?" << These were your words. ">it is not entirely fair to say "those were the times" when dealing with the savage crimes of the vikings because that was definitely not the case for other areas of eh world >the author is Japanese and 11th century Japan was a very peaceful place as were a lot of other areas of the world" << These were my words. "Ever heard of crusades or the conquests of Genghis Khan" Have you? Genghis Khan: 1162-1227 First crusade: 1096 Vinland Saga timeframe: 1014
Orr Malus
2023-02-26 20:47:26 +0000 UTCSometimes stories work much, much better when they're not told in chronological order. The events of Season 1 could have been revealed through flashbacks during the slave-arc. This was the original intention but the author's editor said that was boring. I think it was a huge mistake because it completely removes the mystery element. It's like watching AoT but it starts with Reiner or Grisha as a kid in Marley.
Orr Malus
2023-02-26 20:30:25 +0000 UTCHow can you seriously say that the High Medieval Times were mostly peaceful? Ever heard of crusades or the conquests of Genghis Khan (and the Mongolian Empire in general)? The heinous and barbaric persecution of heretics (The Albigensian Crusade)? "In other words season 1 was just a drawn out unnecessary prequel". According to you, Malus. The same author that you refer to when making an argument about the Danes decided that this "drawn out prequel" was necessary in the end. And, surprise, surprise - most people agree with him. You are spouting nonsens, and calling it facts. I seriously hope people will continue to miss some of the points you make here.
Nikodem
2023-02-26 20:22:59 +0000 UTCi personally like season 1 and how long and detailed it is, it makes the story more like an actual saga.
Kendog
2023-02-26 19:45:55 +0000 UTC"season 1 was just a drawn out unnecessary prequel" ok bruv
Tserriednich
2023-02-26 18:13:12 +0000 UTClol, there are no core tenant of masculinity.
MaxVSTheGames
2023-02-26 15:24:55 +0000 UTCI would like to point out several big picture aspects which people might have missed: >the action takes place in the 11th century AD meaning the world already went through 1000 years of Christianity >the savage ways of the vikings was in direct opposition to the Christian faith which was just spreading to those lands >because Christianity was taking roots we see people conflicted between old traditions and new ones (Einar was confused on who to even pray to) >the first time we see Askeladd's crew they're raping and pillaging a Christian settlement, with Askeladd even mentioning how much he hates Christians >later on it is revealed that Askeladd was doubly pagan: he subscribed to both Norse mythology and ancient Roman mythology >Askeladd bowed down to Canute only after Canute apostatized from Christianity >Leif, Snake, and Ketil Senior are all Christian-philes (Leif was confirmed as a Chrsitian in the first episode, Snake's weapon and literacy in the Cyrillic alphabet suggest connections to the Byzantine Empire, and Ketil Senior loved reading the Bible) >it is not entirely fair to say "those were the times" when dealing with the savage crimes of the vikings because that was definitely not the case for other areas of eh world >when we last saw Leif he was checking out slaves, sometimes even buying and freeing them; this behavior is similar to Master Ketil who had Einar and Thorfinn buy back their freedom, which in turn is similar to how Thors bought and freed that slave from Halfdan (again the theme of the old ways vs the new) >ironically this led to an economic incentive for vikings to capture more slaves and sell them off to more civilized places hence their incursions to Southern Europe; first we see vikings eradicating entire villages, then we see vikings kidnapping villagers to sell as slaves >the author is Japanese and 11th century Japan was a very peaceful place as were a lot of other areas of the world, the Danes people were an outlier; the author even said how vikings were just a bunch of pirates with no honor or justice to be found amongst them even by the standards of the time >Vinland Saga was initially intended to start off with Thorfinn as a slave and we were supposed to learn thaat he was a viking the same way Einar did, and all the viking stuff to be just a background to the actual story; in other words season 1 was just a drawn out unnecessary prequel sorry for the wall of text
Orr Malus
2023-02-26 14:12:14 +0000 UTCThats a massive generalization
MOB12
2023-02-26 14:09:09 +0000 UTCi'm glad to see you liked the manga at least 😂 i would hope @Robert H. is right and it gets a third season and fourth because i think that's more or less what it would require seeing that the manga is ending soon. i'd hate for such a beautiful story to be cancelled just because it doesn't meet the violence standards and doesn't have enough fighting.
sand_fl
2023-02-26 11:08:48 +0000 UTCBut the thing is also that in this Winter Season and the following Spring Season, there is no show that competes with Vinland Saga (with the exception of Demon Slayer). I don't know if Mappa planned it this way, but if Vinland Saga had started in the Fall Season or Spring Season, the anime probably would have been completely lost. Chainsaw Man, Spy x Family, Mob Psycho and Bleach would not have given Vinland Saga a chance to gain attention. And in Summer, Jujutsu Kaisen and Bleach would have drawn any attention from Vinland Saga in its second half if it had started in Spring. As a result, Vinland Saga will be quite successful and will surely get a third season.
Robert H.
2023-02-26 10:45:04 +0000 UTCInteresting title "Drowning in the Shadow", just as I mention the concept of "shadow self" by Carl Jung in my next comment. :)
Ideophagous
2023-02-26 08:37:47 +0000 UTCThors could afford to be compassionate with no reservations, because no one would dare question his strength and ability. He had the full confidence to be able to squash any opposing force of evil, but made the harder choice not to go down that route, Ketil on the other hand is a "coward" who's afraid of war and violence, and feels that he has to show strength lest he be found out for what he truly is. This is what Carl Jung called "embracing your shadow self". Not giving in to its petty demands of cruelty, but using it to be a greater person than you could be without it. Thors knew his shadow self first hand, and went beyond it. Ketil is scared of it or what it could embody. Thorgil, Ketil's elder son, is consumed by it.
Ideophagous
2023-02-26 08:26:41 +0000 UTCI think you forgot to look up a scene on YouTube that was actually meant to be before this episode. You can just watch this scene before the next one. Here is the YouTube link for Episode 6.5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSwWYEUhIYc
Robert H.
2023-02-26 08:15:14 +0000 UTCHaving read the manga (loved it) and knowing the direction season 2 is going towards I'm worried there's not going to be a season 3. Why? Because season 1 was just vikings doing vikings stuff which greatly appealed to "certain types of people". Now season 2 is a course correction to what Vinland Saga was always supposed to be about meaning it's no longer appealing to those "certain types of people". This explains the drop in popularity, poor user reviews/scores compared to season 1, and unfortunately the animation budget cuts. It all relies on the ratio of how many people watched season 1 because of the story compared to how many watched it for just the viking stuff.
Orr Malus
2023-02-26 05:19:11 +0000 UTCThe Pacific.. Sorry
Joshua Frydenlund
2023-02-26 04:21:30 +0000 UTCi agree with Fro. like obviously we understood what probably ensued but it also shows that Ketill relies on Arneid more than just sex. He feels an emotional attachment to her that he doesnt get from his own family. Cuz shes the only that listens to him (ofc she does it because hes her master) and provides any sort of comfort to guard him away from the violence of this world
Danny
2023-02-26 04:16:22 +0000 UTCalso, being emotional as a man is never good. Look at prisons, they are full of men who acted on emotion. A core tenant of masculinity is stoicism, and being able to make rational decisions and think logically
mike_oxlong
2023-02-26 03:58:56 +0000 UTCketil is not strong. he has the right ideals, but can't back them up. as the old saying goes, its better to be a warrior in a garden than a Gardner in a war
mike_oxlong
2023-02-26 03:56:07 +0000 UTCTo add on to your point, I've seen people argue that you can only be kind and moral if you can back it up with physical strength. However, the strongest person in the show, Thors, died for his kindness. I mean there's a reason Thors was basically compared to Jesus. That's what the great thing about him was. His true strength wasn't his physical prowess.
Rare
2023-02-26 03:28:13 +0000 UTCI don't know if you saw my comment on the last episode but I'll just post it again. Mappa uploaded a short 2.5 minute scene on their youtube titled Episode 6.5. If you haven't watched it already you might want to react to it at the begining of the next episode https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSwWYEUhIYc&ab_channel=MAPPACHANNEL
ian
2023-02-26 03:26:44 +0000 UTCtbh in this version i took it with her still being clothed as the value he gets from her and how he 'uses' her is for his own emotional honesty, with the sexual aspect being almost irrelevant. I get how the idea of her being clothed might be weird but in this case without the context of the manga it contributes to the character of Kettil with how he uses her.
Froziac
2023-02-26 03:21:22 +0000 UTCIt's extra bizarre because in the manga, the woman that the warriors are fighting over when Thorgil talks about England ISN'T naked, but in the show she's topless. So that's an instance of actively removing nudity in one scene, but actively adding it where there was none in another. No idea what reason there would be to do both at the same time.
ArtficialFlvrz
2023-02-26 02:51:03 +0000 UTCIf I may chalenge your post episode discussion about Kettil, I would say I personally say that he IS weak, because in the end HE IS the master here, is word is low, and so, what happened to the kids his the result of his weakness. You used him as the exemple for all your talk about the toxic masculinity, on wich I wholeheartedly agree, but a better exemple is indeed Thor, while being a nice person, empathetic and all that, he was strong in the sense he was ready to assume the consequences of his view, like with saving the slave, knowing it was a "mistake" and ending up buying him at a ridiculously price, or ending up dying also to staying true to himself. I technically don't judge Kettil for being how he is, I'm probably closer to him than Thor, but while he is not weak for being empathetic or nor wanting to hurts others, in the end, while being the one dictating the law here, he had to not only wait for Pater to give him an out, but also was not able to say his idea was punition enough. Anyways, not a big deal, especially since I agree with your message, but more of an not so important detail about Kettil in my mind.
Nezumis
2023-02-26 02:45:56 +0000 UTCLittle nitpick I have in the last scene is that in the manga Arnheid is nude. Im not saying this as a "oh nice naked girl!" Thing. Im pointing it out because I dont really see how it makes any sense for her to be fully clothed in bed with Ketil after sex. The scene is supposed to be us being let into an intimate/private moment of two people in bed. If they wish to censor the nudity fine, but they could have hidden her breasts with her drooping hair or maybe a bed sheet. The choice to make her clothed just seems odd to me.
Loki Marcus
2023-02-26 02:26:43 +0000 UTCwhat a shitty situation. we can see that Ketil is a pretty good dude and hates violence just like Thors. Ofc unlike Thors he doesnt have the strength to back it up. Not his fault ofc hes just stuck between a rock and a hard spot. But because of this, he clearly has an attachment to Arneid that confirms theres pretty much no "end game" for Arneid. While he probably treats her well, she is still his slave and while he probably gives the chance for freedom for the other slaves, Arneid may not have that same opportunity. Im not whether to like or dislike him lol.
Danny
2023-02-26 02:16:48 +0000 UTCAnd shingeki come back 4th, they should watch the last episode again
Vicente de Paulo Guimaraes Priante
2023-02-26 01:59:22 +0000 UTCU should react to the opening with subtitles
Vicente de Paulo Guimaraes Priante
2023-02-26 01:58:58 +0000 UTC
