Vinland Saga 2x04 Reaction
Added 2023-02-13 01:18:48 +0000 UTC
Comments
Lets say they had a battle once a month. Let's say Thorfinn killed 10 people per battle. 12 months, 120 deaths, 10 years later easily over a 1000 kills. And that's low balling it. Thorfinn has killed THOUSANDS of people. Just let that sink in when they talk about his past.
Nathan Elkin
2023-02-16 06:39:44 +0000 UTCThorfinn respected Thors. Thors wouldn't respect the revenge, but that's too heavy of a load for Thorfinn to accept. So, caught in the middle, Thorfinn decides the dishonorable revenge should at least be an honorable duel because anything else feels too much or too little. Thorfinn knows how to use logic, but he ignores logic when his emotions become too much.
Nathan Elkin
2023-02-16 03:15:46 +0000 UTCIf your take is 'it took me until the 70th manga chapter to realise the author thinks violence is meaningless' then you may continue to be the dumbest person alive. You can get that from anime episodes 1-4, unless you have absolutely zero media literacy. You also fail to grasp that something can be a 'critique' of something without being a satire, or lampooning it. But again, requires the media literacy of at least an eight year old so also beyond you. The levity in the manga doesn't come from examining the absurdity of the Viking's actions, if anything the absurdity of the Vikings is treated with a sober melancholy, it's rather the interactions between the characters where the levity derives from. Sigurd and Bug Eyes entire existences seem to be for the express purpose of comic relief, and neither character derives its humour from mocking the setting, they're just written as lovable dipshits. If anything though, you missing the point of something shouldn't be a surprise after the people who run the Patreon were literally so sick of you that they refunded you and told you to go away, and no hint was taken.
Jay Craig
2023-02-16 00:06:56 +0000 UTCyou won orr, you made my experience watching along these girls worse everytime i read your comment
kiwi
2023-02-15 10:14:50 +0000 UTC" the characters make terrible choices because they arent smart and they are human. If its so easy to make the "right/correct" choice, there would be no such thing as mistakes." Thanks for repeating my point using different words 👍
Orr Malus
2023-02-14 20:06:54 +0000 UTCYesterday came episode 6 of Vinland Saga. On YouTube, Mappa uploaded another scene that probably didn't make it into episode 7. You can watch it at the beginning of episode 7. A little tip: Turn up the brightness a bit, because the scene is quite dark. The link: https://youtu.be/HSwWYEUhIYc
Robert H.
2023-02-14 06:57:08 +0000 UTCin Thorfinns mind, killing someone while they are asleep or unable to defend themselves is dishonorable. Most of the kills (at least the one we've seen) he has always done in battle. I dont recall if he ever killed an "innocent" person but even if he had, his thought process was probably along the lines of "well they awake and they have the chance to defend themselves but im simply stronger so they died". The strong kills the weak, basically what he said this episode is his belief. He has a code but his honor doesnt mean not killing innocents or showing mercy. Part of it was also probably he wanted to justify his father's way of life by killing Askeladd honorably as his father wouldve (according to him). In the end, it was just a big justification and reasoning that Thorfinn used to convince himself that his father wasnt supposed to die. He wanted to respect his fathers death but completely did the opposite of what his father wanted. @Orr Malus - the characters make terrible choices because they arent smart and they are human. If its so easy to make the "right/correct" choice, there would be no such thing as mistakes. I highly doubt you made the perfect choices in life to lead you to where you are. Obviously Thorfinn's case was more extreme. But it wasnt completely illogical nor unbelievable. He wanted revenge yet also wanted to hold up his father's honor. He was 5 at the time. You really pushing a 5 year old to think with clarity after witnessing the death of his father?
Danny
2023-02-14 06:09:47 +0000 UTCOh, you...
Orr Malus
2023-02-14 00:27:08 +0000 UTCBecause Thorfin didn’t want to kill Askeladd at all. He was completely lost, but stuck to the only purpose he found after Thors death. It happened after Thorfin refused to kill Askeladd in sleep. Next day he challenged Askeladd to a duel and he supposed to die there, but Askeladd refused to kill Thorfin either. So basically, Askelladd just gave Thorfin purpose in life - to duel him, as a reward for being good in battles. Imagine if you were stuck in Limbo and somobody just gave you a goal to accomplish. You’d run for it whatever the goal is, because it’s the only thing, which makes you feel alive. So everybody say that, it’s because of Thors honor, but imho it was just an exuse for what I described upper.
sas135
2023-02-14 00:09:21 +0000 UTCGood one @Rope very accurate. 😂
Melkor
2023-02-13 23:10:48 +0000 UTCOrr Malus' comments also make a lot more sense if you interpret them as satirical
Rope Snake
2023-02-13 22:08:28 +0000 UTCI recommend reading the manga. Phrases like "this doesn't make sense", "this is pointless", "it's all been for nothing", "all the deaths were meaningless" are uttered on a regular basis by the characters. It's a satire and you're meant to laugh at the characters for their idiotic mentality, not empathise with them. SLIGHT SPOILER WARNING. The manga starts off subtle enough but around issue 70 (200 issues so far, ongoing) the author reiterates in no uncertain terms that everything was pointless up to that point. Thorfinn even breaks the 4th wall to an extent and complains that the plot isn't very funny and that he should be reborn (i.e. rewritten) as a character. After that it becomes a bonafide comedy.
Orr Malus
2023-02-13 21:45:41 +0000 UTCCan someone explain me this one thing about Thorfinn - he didn't want to kill Askeladd while he was vulnerable/asleep, because let's say it's "not hounorable", but then proceeded helping him and killing so many innocent people, who never deserved that. Maybe it's supposed not to make sense, I'm just trying to figure out his thought process.
terrier
2023-02-13 20:40:10 +0000 UTCWow! Thank u for pointing this out i didnt think of that
Addy Cop
2023-02-13 19:15:32 +0000 UTCWhat just blew my mind about the manga is that it's satirical. I've been hearing a lot of arguments waxing poetic about the virtues of Vinland Saga but most of them have only watched the anime. The source material is very humoristic. For instance the manga chapter this episode is based on ends with a comedic scene. Prior to this we have Askeladd. A man who was so upset about what vikings did to his mother that he decided to become a viking and do the exact same things to others as "revenge". The reason why this doesn't make sense is because it's not supposed to. Askeladd is a crazy person (runs in the family) and you can't apply logic to a crazy person's actions. The author is Japanese and he's poking fun at the Norse mentality and culture of that age. The constant theme of Vinland Saga is that the justification behind all the violence is stupid, nonsensical, and completely avoidable. I've read all of the manga. It jumps the shark several times over. Lots of laugh out loud moments. Vinland Saga is for the viking franchise what Scream was for the slasher movie franchise. The creators of the anime might not have realized this, and if they did they just ignored it.
Orr Malus
2023-02-13 16:10:25 +0000 UTCi think they're just trying to make einar more complex by giving him more background and making him more realistic since many thought that his attitude in the manga was "too forgiving". i like bothe versions, though i agree that it's a bit out of character from manga einar, but it's fitting with the version of einar tha anime is doing.
sand_fl
2023-02-13 14:15:57 +0000 UTCby the way, does anybody know why are they doing so many close ups on the lower parts of the faces?, specially this episode. at first i thought it was to show us the chapped lips and cracked teeth but they've done a bunch and i'm not sure if it has more significance than i thought and it's flying over my head or just a stylistc choice.
sand_fl
2023-02-13 14:13:44 +0000 UTC@Conroy well thanks for the explanation. tbh i don't usually read the credits so i had no clue. and it's not like i consider the animation is bad, just in my opinion it's a bit of a downgrade and there's moments it's off but i guess it's just me a a few individuals and the great majority is happy with it. the dream sequence was animated beautifully, that's completely true. and @PM yeah, i do see the shift, but to be fair i've not watched many animes so this and aot are the only animes i've watched that changed studios and both were from wit to mappa, so i didn't know if this was just mappa style though it's completely different from the one in jjk. and yeah, not bad blood at all. it's obvious not all viewers have the same opinions, it's always nice to talk with people with different ones and see their perspective.
sand_fl
2023-02-13 14:04:31 +0000 UTCWell they did speak Icelandic in the very very first scene of episode 1 but thats anime original too lmao but it was amazing and it makes me want a whole Scandinavian dub of the show
MOB12
2023-02-13 13:27:58 +0000 UTCNo idea why they thought to have Einar put his hands on Thorfinn's throat in the adaptation, doesn't ring true to Einar's character at all. This was something I thought when I first watched the episode then I was shocked when someone posted the manga chapter in one of the previous reactions on this patreon and I saw that it wasn't in the manga at all. Such a bizarre choice.
Jay Craig
2023-02-13 12:32:57 +0000 UTCIf you watch 1x24 again sometime: Thorfinn cut off a good portion of Canute's hair when he attacked him. That's probably why he had it cut shorter, so that it wouldn't look strange if one side was chest-length and the other neck-length.
Robert H.
2023-02-13 08:32:39 +0000 UTC@PM Don't think I ripped apart OP at all, in fact agreed with them in part. Stating my opinion as well as you are. Just trying to clarify some misconceptions people have about what the change in studio actually means.
Conroy
2023-02-13 05:38:53 +0000 UTCagree 100%.. definitely a cosmetic shift from s1 and that is inevitable with a diff studio... storyboarding and shot compositions are one thing.. and that has been top tier as always in vinland saga... but there's just something about mappa's drawing that is very janky and feels weird in s2 as compared to s1 where the animation used to be clean and smooth... my "personal opinion"... u cn disagree but don't rip apart the OP cz they r not the only one
c01d_h4nds
2023-02-13 05:21:16 +0000 UTCBy secondary animation I mean the "2nd Key" and "In-Between" Animation credits you can see in the ED of each episode, and the fact that there's been more outsourcing there is usually not a good thing. You can see this here from episode 2 this season for example https://i.imgur.com/osXBIDB.png - usually this credit (2nd Key Animation) would be attributed to specific animators, but here only studio names are shown. This implies that mappa had to outsource that work to these studios, ostensibly due to their schedule not being able to accommodate. This is something we are seeing across the industry right now, so your original point of the studio being more overworked potentially rings true. I just believe that this show particularly has enough carry-over lead staff to withstand that. Looking forward to their interpretations of many upcoming moments.
Conroy
2023-02-13 05:19:51 +0000 UTCsee? i have no fucking idea wbag secondary animation means. to me the style just looks very different. just like the change from wit to mappa in aot. this style looks very similar to the one aot has now imo. but it doesn't look at all like the jjk style (my favourite from mappa) or chainsaw man. to be fair my knowledge on the animation or how it works is limited, i just know that in terms of animation/style i preferred season 1. other than that season 2 is amazing just like the arc on the manga. i finished re-reading the manga the other day and this arc is a standout for me. not my favourite but it's up there.
sand_fl
2023-02-13 03:22:24 +0000 UTCIdk if patreon will let this link through but I found the original clip on youtube for comparison https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=234Q38pQ-3c&t=1s&ab_channel=AnimeOp
Fish Smell Bad
2023-02-13 03:16:39 +0000 UTCNot sure if anyone else has noticed this but the shot at 15:20 is the same sequence from season 1 episode 7 when Askeladd had Thorfinn go and cut off the enemy commander's head. And then obviously they showed the woman from episode 6 that took him in as well.
Fish Smell Bad
2023-02-13 03:14:49 +0000 UTCNo worries, I haven't felt much of a style change in the art or animation, but i think the discussion is fair. The secondary animation work and some other roles have been outsourced more this season for example. But some stuff, like the dream sequence this episode, have been added touches I've loved.
Conroy
2023-02-13 03:11:59 +0000 UTCwell, judging by the likes in the response i guess people are mostly happy with the animation and it's just a me thing 🤷🏻♀️ i guess i'm happy it's not a thing and it's just me not being used to this kind of animation then
sand_fl
2023-02-13 02:49:13 +0000 UTCThe season so far is very beautiful & dark & I already loved Einar but after this episode I love him even more
JT
2023-02-13 01:57:17 +0000 UTC@Conroy i don't mean all shots. this episode was indeed the best animated imo too. but in all episodes i see a few shots i find weird. and i know not all animators work on the same shows and that most of the team from wit is working in this season too. but the style is different too, so that also counts. and i'm not shitting on the animators or anything, just saying that the animation is the only thing of this season i'm not completely sold on
sand_fl
2023-02-13 01:52:06 +0000 UTCstrong disagree, this was the best looking ep of the season imo. The staff from csm and vinland have almost no crossover, vinland is still predominantly worked on by the same staff as season 1. This ep for example, storyboard by the acclaimed Atsushi Kobayashi who was worked on many season 1 episodes. Re: the production schedule, for what its worth, one animator tweeted recently that a cut they worked on in early 2021 was just used in ep 5.
Conroy
2023-02-13 01:45:46 +0000 UTCthe animation looks weird in the thumbnail. loving s2 so far because i adore this arc in the manga and i'm loving the music. only thing i'm not 100% in is the animation. some shots (like the one in the thumbnail) look bad and not finished. thornfinn looks different in every shot. it's a shame because i'm sure it's just because mappa bit more than the could chew the last couple years. specially now with chainsaw man, season 2 of jjk and vinland and now aot final arc.
sand_fl
2023-02-13 01:27:52 +0000 UTC“Hebi” (Japanese) just means Snake in English and “Kitsune” (Japanese) means Fox in English. It can get confusing sometimes but you can be ensured that they won’t speak any English or Norse in this anime. It’s solely Japanese. You probably already noticed it from back in S1 the way they’re pronouncing all of these English names and regions.
Julien
2023-02-13 01:21:47 +0000 UTCThe thumbnail says it all😢
Dammy Oshikoya
2023-02-13 01:19:37 +0000 UTC
