Serum Business Overhaul Planning

The Lily Anal Taboo quest Check back in never completes the taboo quest. I think this is the right fix based on the mom completion event? role_sister_taboo_quests.rpy line 591+ label sister_anal_taboo_break_revisit_complete(the_person): mc.name "So, I got you those pictures with [mom.title]." insert the 2 lines label sister_anal_taboo_break_revisit_complete(the_person): $ the_person.event_triggers_dict["sister_anal_quest_active"] = False $ the_person.event_triggers_dict["anal_revisit_complete"] = True mc.name "So, I got you those pictures with [mom.title]."

Shhhh that's my money trick to keep me afloat due to how horrible I am at micro managing at the beginning

jimmy jimmy

It's not an ideal solution, but wandering downtown helps avoid this at $200/lost wallet.

Nona

Adding more variety to the business part of the game sounds great but if it's seriously bumping up the game's difficulty it would be nice to add several difficulty levels because constantly going bankrupt in the early game could be really annoying after a while.

Drackin

While this sounds like a solid step up from the current system, I much prefer some rather heavy focus on story content, the last update was a solid step in the right direction, however it was still very slim on the amount of story elements added as I suspect much of the focus went into other systems needing updating (like the strip system). Another avenue I'd like see explored is making the family members and key characters unique renders.

Marintonka

Right, but if you remember Vren's rationale for clarity, he doesn't want people speeding through the early game. The way he's adding mechanics like this is meant to slow down the player to keep them from blitzing the early game to get to "I have everything unlocked and every woman in a 3 mile radius is my sex slave". Contracts aren't going to be there to speed you along, the way he's balanced the game and the way he wants to change sales so have to keep changing your serum to ride trends, they're going to be near mandatory if you want to stay afloat.

James Ashcraft

I don't think the business game needs a drastic rework. I think if you have an increased set cost for increased staff levels (e.g. renting a bigger office) would help with the exponential profits you tend to get. And there could be like a patent system for each serum- after a set period of time, it becomes generic and the sale price tanks. The Clarity system already gives us a hard barrier for progression, this proposed system just seems like a solution in search of a problem. Contracts and Heat sound interesting, but I'm sure they can be done without gutting the existing system.

i think this is one of my points that i wanted to make, i would rather have the option to sink some money in it without real new mechanics behind it and only a change of scenery, than 3 months of machanic changes only to surpress the overflow of money. I would like to have vren focus on ingame content (storylines) and less on mechanics for a while. If i am honest, sometimes i play without cheating and need roughly a month to get the cash flowing in so i can start to really research and corrupt, but mostly i cheat the hell out of it, starting with more money, clarity and 5 points in every business skills.

Victor

If you read some other comments, the contract system could actually be taken advantage of to speed players through the tedious early game, if implemented well, because it could provide lump sum payments. The heat system, meanwhile, as you noted, opens up the possibility of corrupting cops.

Killer300

These sound a lot like "stop having fun" gatekeeping mechanics meant to force the player to pay attention to the sales side of things rather than a way to make sales interesting. Heat I don't mind, because the idea of female investigators being added later that can get corrupted sounds fun, but christ almighty do I not want to play Game Dev Tycoon in the game about mind controlling, fucking, and impregnating your staff and family. There's no benefit to the player by adding these mechanics - like you said, in the current state you can produce one serum and stop thinking about it - they just force me to divert my attention from the porn part of the porn game and bog down an already "I could be playing other porn games right now" early game experience like Clarity does. Not trying to be a dick, but this just sounds like bloat, not anything that adds to the game's experience.

James Ashcraft

I think a lot of the issues with increased business complexity would be reduced if the early game wasn't so grindy. I keep emphasizing this because it can feel like it takes forever to get to the interesting part of the game because you have to struggle through so much of Tier 0(and to a lesser extent Tier 1). The other side of it is I think the issue with more complex business mechanics is that cash, as a resource, is just boring in the game. You make money to make improvements to your business and... that's almost about it. Your income later in the game rapidly outpaces any labor costs you have, and there's nothing interesting to spend money on, so because of that, the cash just feels meaningless after you get out of the early game, and get all the upgrades you most care about. Hence, cash in the game is either super grindy, or meaningless, neither of which makes people feel good about more mechanics being attached to it. Hence, the game needs to be less grindy, which I've gone over elsewhere, and there needs to be more for the player to actually do with money outside of its current uses.

Killer300

In regards to material goods, in game, the things I most want are the ability to pay off mom's mortgage, and otherwise positively improve the life of your immediate family. The mod does some of this, but the main is again, can we please pay off Mom's mortgage? It'd be a great end game goal, and would be a great end game money sink. Related, it would be interesting to have a mansion... but before hand, we would need group sex interactions. For why, to me the purpose of a bigger house would be to have more characters live with you. None of that really seems worth it to me if you can't have sex scenes with more than two characters at a time. Given we're still a ways from that in the base game, I'd say mansion mechanics don't make sense for awhile either. EDIT: Also, yeah, cars don't make sense. The game, thankfully, does not have travel time as something you have to care about, and, yes, I do like that we essentially teleport everywhere.

Killer300

The thing with the ideas you list as easy to implement is that they're easy to implement, but would require significant work added underneath them to make them meaningful. Just adding a line saying you own X cars and a Y sq ft mansion doesn't actually do anything...

Nona

[code] I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred. While running game code: File "game/script.rpy", line 275, in script call $ picked_event[1].call_action(picked_event[0]) #Run the action with the person as an extra argument. File "game/game_roles/role_sister/role_sister_taboo_quests.rpy", line 280, in script $ electronics_store.on_room_enter_event_list.append(Action("pi phone discover", sister_oral_quest_1_requirement, "sister_oral_taboo_break_revisit_quest_1", args = the_person, requirement_args = the_person)) File "game/game_roles/role_sister/role_sister_taboo_quests.rpy", line 280, in $ electronics_store.on_room_enter_event_list.append(Action("pi phone discover", sister_oral_quest_1_requirement, "sister_oral_taboo_break_revisit_quest_1", args = the_person, requirement_args = the_person)) AttributeError: 'Room' object has no attribute 'on_room_enter_event_list' -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------ Full traceback: File "game/script.rpy", line 275, in script call $ picked_event[1].call_action(picked_event[0]) #Run the action with the person as an extra argument. File "game/game_roles/role_sister/role_sister_taboo_quests.rpy", line 280, in script $ electronics_store.on_room_enter_event_list.append(Action("pi phone discover", sister_oral_quest_1_requirement, "sister_oral_taboo_break_revisit_quest_1", args = the_person, requirement_args = the_person)) File "renpy/ast.py", line 923, in execute renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store) File "renpy/python.py", line 2235, in py_exec_bytecode exec(bytecode, globals, locals) File "game/game_roles/role_sister/role_sister_taboo_quests.rpy", line 280, in $ electronics_store.on_room_enter_event_list.append(Action("pi phone discover", sister_oral_quest_1_requirement, "sister_oral_taboo_break_revisit_quest_1", args = the_person, requirement_args = the_person)) AttributeError: 'Room' object has no attribute 'on_room_enter_event_list' Windows-10-10.0.19041 Ren'Py 7.4.8.1895 Lab Rats 2 - Down to Business v0.46.0 Sun Nov 7 22:45:10 2021 [/code]

Adam Król

I am a bit worried by some of the ideas The idea to make some products legal or illegal <- that is totally fine by me The idea to make forbidden serums sell for more money <- i don't think that i find it good, i would rather make them more costly to make, so that you must have a good running business to make them The problem of swimming in money at the endgame <- i would like if we could buy upgrades for our firm or our house or new cars or something that give you the feeling that you can reward yourself. Also it could be an option what you once suggestet, that at rival company opens and prices for the serums go down. I think that the medical tree that you are suggesting should also have tiers for serums that have no effect on npc but sells for an other price. If i am thinking about things to change i would go for things you can spend money on with your charakter that makes it feel great to make a lot of money. (bigger House, swimming pool, cars, bigger company, apartments for your love interests or there daughters. There a plenty of things that could be fun and should not be hard to implement. You could also add an upkeep to things we buy. Also i think that raising the stats of our employes make a impact that is to huge in how much money you can make. By everything you do, please keep in mind to make it not to complicated and that most fun is generated through a system that let you feel rewarded and not through a system that feels to overwhelm you. As an afterthought, i still think that adding more storys for employes, girlfriends, dilfs, milfs will have a greater impact than to balance the system at this moment. Two or three month of only story content would make the game much more replayable than changeing often the systems and playing the same story content over and over again. To make it clear as everytime, i am thinking your game is great and i will support it hopefully for a long time to come.

Victor

[code] I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred. While running game code: File "game/script.rpy", line 275, in script call $ picked_event[1].call_action(picked_event[0]) #Run the action with the person as an extra argument. File "game/game_roles/role_sister/role_sister_taboo_quests.rpy", line 134, in script python: File "game/game_roles/role_sister/role_sister_taboo_quests.rpy", line 136, in the_person.break_taboo(a_taboo, add_to_log = False, fire_event = False) TypeError: break_taboo() got an unexpected keyword argument 'fire_event' -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------ Full traceback: File "game/script.rpy", line 275, in script call $ picked_event[1].call_action(picked_event[0]) #Run the action with the person as an extra argument. File "game/game_roles/role_sister/role_sister_taboo_quests.rpy", line 134, in script python: File "renpy/ast.py", line 923, in execute renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store) File "renpy/python.py", line 2235, in py_exec_bytecode exec(bytecode, globals, locals) File "game/game_roles/role_sister/role_sister_taboo_quests.rpy", line 136, in the_person.break_taboo(a_taboo, add_to_log = False, fire_event = False) TypeError: break_taboo() got an unexpected keyword argument 'fire_event' Windows-10-10.0.19041 Ren'Py 7.4.8.1895 Lab Rats 2 - Down to Business v0.46.0 Sun Nov 7 20:22:27 2021 [/code]

Adam Król

[code] I'm sorry, but an uncaught exception occurred. While running game code: File "game/script.rpy", line 297, in script call call advance_time from _call_advance_time_15 File "game/script.rpy", line 442, in script python: File "game/script.rpy", line 444, in people.run_day() File "game/major_game_classes/character_related/Person.rpy", line 639, in run_day a_role.run_day(self) File "game/major_game_classes/game_logic/Role.rpy", line 91, in run_day self.on_day(the_person) File "game/game_roles/role_sister/role_sister_main.rpy", line 32, in sister_on_day the_person.restore_taboo(a_taboo, add_to_log = False) File "game/major_game_classes/character_related/Person.rpy", line 1186, in restore_taboo return false NameError: global name 'false' is not defined -- Full Traceback ------------------------------------------------------------ Full traceback: File "game/script.rpy", line 297, in script call call advance_time from _call_advance_time_15 File "game/script.rpy", line 442, in script python: File "renpy/ast.py", line 923, in execute renpy.python.py_exec_bytecode(self.code.bytecode, self.hide, store=self.store) File "renpy/python.py", line 2235, in py_exec_bytecode exec(bytecode, globals, locals) File "game/script.rpy", line 444, in people.run_day() File "game/major_game_classes/character_related/Person.rpy", line 639, in run_day a_role.run_day(self) File "game/major_game_classes/game_logic/Role.rpy", line 91, in run_day self.on_day(the_person) File "game/game_roles/role_sister/role_sister_main.rpy", line 32, in sister_on_day the_person.restore_taboo(a_taboo, add_to_log = False) File "game/major_game_classes/character_related/Person.rpy", line 1186, in restore_taboo return false NameError: global name 'false' is not defined Windows-10-10.0.19041 Ren'Py 7.4.8.1895 Lab Rats 2 - Down to Business v0.46.0 Sun Nov 7 18:50:13 2021 [/code]

Adam Król

Bug report while sex if you dont have energy you can change position, but you don't have energy to choose anyone then you cant choose anything. Then you can not leave menu.

Adam Król

I like the ideas. I'd add that if this is added, there should be a number of different possible traits [opinions] added that make individuals more or less comfortable with legally/morally shady practices. It's possible that you might even want to add a "moral compass" type of attribute that can be corrupted - how law-abiding they are - and allow recruitment options to hire more or less law-abiding recruits who have fewer qualms about doing questionable research or working at a company with a sketchy reputation. There should be a possibility to keep your business reputation clean, and a reward aside from less heat - the first thing that comes to mind would be a larger recruiting pool when you recruit, and possibly better recruits. The flip side would probably be that you could get more desperate recruits who would ask for a lower salary. That makes me feel like there should be a way other than trances to improve worker skills, though - having employees gain 0.05 skill per day at a job up to the same level as the primary statistic (or the primary statistic + 5), for example. Having your workers gain experience and become more skilled over time would also help mitigate the struggle some people seem to have surviving the early game, although since it'd be gradual it might not be overly helpful. I'd add that the increased complexity would be to some degree offset by an increase in potential narrative hooks - forex, if suits come sniffing around, some of them might be someone you'd want to corrupt rather than paying off or deflecting. There's a lot of vocal pushback above against making the game portion more complex, and while I see where they're coming from, I think the benefits outweigh those concerns. If it could be done easily, it might be useful to add a choice at the game's start to go into a "sandbox" mode where the game aspects are simplified or made less consequential - e.g., if you're in sandbox mode, your business can run a deficit indefinitely, or at least for a month, and there are no contracts, etc. If the gameplay can be segregated behind a start-of-game option toggle, I think a lot of the worries that it would make things too grindy or too difficult could be mitigated.

Nona

Alternately, there needs to be more to do outside of what the corporate grind allows you to do. If you can hook up with randos on Sindr or whatever for one-night stands, barhop, etc. until you can set your sights on people closer to you, that could help make the early game feel less grindy. It's when your only viable gameplay options are working as an employee at your business or mugging people - erm, excuse me, I meant "finding people's dropped wallets" - downtown, it can get grindy for the first month or three.

Nona

I'd disagree that it's easy to fail, but I understand YMMV. A solution for that would be to make the game startup include an option for simple vs. complex business models, and have simple skip a lot of the content. Frankly, I want the game to be a game - that's what it offers that's unique. There should the "reward" aspect, but it's not just given to you directly.

Nona

I think if maybe this more complicated business stuff came later in the game, and something was added to essentially fast forward the player out of Tier 0 as quickly as possible, it could work. To put it another way, Tier 0 should just be a tutorial that you can get out of rapidly once you demonstrate you understand the game's basics. As it is, Tier 0 takes way, WAY too long to get out of.

Killer300

I'm indifferent to the ideas. But I do agree that in early game the player struggles to pay basic employees but in mid to late game the player is essentially rolling around in money. I wouldn't mind adding more money sinks or ways to spend money.

legendppk

The early game grind does need a shake-up. For example I can't enjoy messing with the Aunty and Cousin staying because I'm too busy struggling to not fail. But I'm not sure if this part of the gameplay loop needs to be looked into with such depth. I'm not interested in a complicated business structure, I'm interested in corrupting girls, which these ideas do nothing change. Do I want to change a girls thoughts about something? High suggestibility serums. Do I want to change how a girl looks? Body modification serums. Do I want to change her Happiness/Obedience/etc.? Stat changing serums. Do I want to increase the value of these serums? Add in value-increasing effects like Clinical Testing Procedures. If I were to enjoy exploring the idea of Aunt and Cousin staying then I need to be LESS focused on the business, not putting more effort into it. The simplest solution to this would be to increase the effectiveness of our own stats when used in the business so that we don't struggle as hard with a small handful of staff, but I'm sure someone else has a more elegant solution. I propose this concept of selling interesting serums be related to other businesses in the game. For example: The gym already exists, surely I could convince the gym manager to buy 20 doses of this cool serum that increases your energy, allowing you to work out for longer! (Side effects may include being way sluttier but shh she doesn't need to know that). What about a hairdresser? Surely they'd be interested in a serum that changes hair colour (and maybe makes the imbiber more obedient but shh). Something along those lines will increase the business interactivity side of things whilst also fleshing out the world a bit more, which is what most of the comments seem to be calling for.

Yes, I really like how the game progresses and I'm sure the inclusion of these systems will make the game more interesting. As you can see, you have a lot of good plans.

VitAnyaNaked

I think this could work, but if you were going to do it, you would need to find a way to shorten the amount of time it takes to get out of the early game. Currently the worst part of the game is being stuck in Tier 0 Serums, and not having enough cash to do anything. Longer term, I'd suggest two things to do with lots of cash at the end game. 1. Can we please just get the ability to pay off the 2nd mortgage? Make it like, I don't know, 500,000$ or something, but the key is to make it an amount of money we would have at the end game, and that would otherwise require a really profitable game. 2. As others have mentioned, making the world more reactive would be great. Your mention of suits and stuff suggests this could be a step in the right direction. The key is, the early game's grind needs to be chopped down. I actually thinking tying the business part of the game to Corruption could be really fun, but something has to be done to reduce grind if that's what you want to do.

Killer300

The proposed "Capitalism Simulator" rework doesn't look like it would SOLVE the grind - it looks like it would make it even more mandatory than it already is. You don't just need money, you need even more of it AND you also have to keep all this other stuff under control. To me this is not more entertaining; it's more confusing and frustrating. A thought: what is the effect you want to achieve with this rework? What is the "fun stuff" that is not currently present, and what causes/allows it?

Hey at that point the company has enough expendable income to buy the news and enforcement influence to get them off the back of the company. Would open a huge amount of use for unusable revenue streams to have to maintain against getting bad press and so forth.

Xador

Complicating the market simulation any more is going to make it harder to draw more people into your game. It's already too hard for most newbies, without using cheats.

orto23

Vrenn, looking at the comments it look's like you asked for mecanics and a lot responded with plot ideas that could be done with more events, more feedback from our actions. Half the woman working for us being all 7 foot tall, with FF tits and a having a tendency for nudism should raise some red flags on the local news or police if the are caught in the street. :-)

Zankriger

I think this is a good direction to folow, the Reputation because why do socially accepted serums if the other give more money and we can pay the penalty at end game.

Zankriger

I was just about to bring that up. There is a little text for when the girl’s breasts change but when the rest of her body is altered it should be identified. Getting taller or shorter as well as body size change would raise some eyebrows for that person and adding a level of comfort not to freak out would seem rational at a minimum.

Xador

I actually really like some of the proposed changes here. There is another game that I've played with a similar mechanic where changes you make within your organization are looked on favorably or unfavorably by the community as a whole based off of how open minded or corrupt you have gone about making them.. I mean, sure as is in Lab Rats you could have a staff of 7 foot tall woman all weighing 110 lbs with FF tits... you have to know someone in the community is going to notice and start asking some questions.. Though to make this work you might also need to better implement ways to corrupt or influence the town as a whole. PR Campaign, spiking the town water supply with serum, etc..

Togashi Jack

I'm kind of with this. I'm all for an interesting business side of the game, but not so much that it overshadows the actual "fun" bits.

DerpNibbles

+1 to this - I'd love to see world more alive, and reacting to your choices/changes

Ashani

Really, I think a big thing that could be added to make the world feel more real is consequences/repercussions of public activities. Stripping someone down in front of everyone doesn't get commented on, nor does leaving them nude. Some characters will wander around town nude, or go to school/work in skimpy outfits, neither of which gets commented on. If you're looking to add depth to the world, that's where I'd love to see some added.

Mark S

Yeah, I'd much rather see more character depth added than a rework of 'capitalism simulator'- which really just sounds like adding MORE capitalism simulator that we'll have to deal with.

Mark S

Starting a new game is already difficult, and it's too easy to fail. Please don't make the game more difficult. There would be no reason to play this game. I would prefer more story content then a redone business system.

This could tie into the downtown actually being a place that could have any kind of long term function as well.

Xador

That would be a great idea and that would cause a use for better training and opportunities for wanting a great "Head Marketer", like the "Lead Researcher." I mean it makes sense as you have original phama developed drugs still selling when you could get a generic for way less for same thing. Marketing and brand recognition.

Xador

Other (simple) ideas: Child support if you knock up someone who isn't up to the level of Girlfriend (or who you lose girlfriend status on later.) And have love decay if you don't interact with a character for a while. Just to raise the stakes later in the game.

Or....continue adding more depth to the character events: Jennifer and Lily, nude photos, their introduction to video, etc.

NuTrix

Walking the trenches and encouraging/cajoling employees should be human resource's job. However, if you farm out the job entirely to them the employees build "loyalty" instead of "love". Loyalty keeps them with the company (even if they aren't happy with the MC). Love is what makes them want to sleep with the MC/cheat on their spouse/have a baby.

Your conventionally marketed brands are affected by the company's/your reputation. Selling products with nasty side effects, getting caught in adulterous actions, or having incest exposed knock down your reputation. P.S. knocking up a relative = immediate exposure. Which is only made more complicated because your mom INSISTS on you knocking her up, and the sluttier she gets, the more likely it is that she'll 'forget' her birth control. (And she is also prone to jump your bones in your sleep.) Recovering from a destroyed reputation is possible. Or you can just switch to marketing black market drugs exclusively. However, some of your employees will be squeamish about making products that are illegal/immoral. (Make it a personality trait.) Others, however, will be turned on by it. Also, it would be nice to have a "polyamorous" trait. That way if you've managed to reprogram enough of your staff, you can have multiple girlfriends without risk of them exposing that you've cheated on them. (Because it's not technically cheating if you have an open relationship...)

Sexual and mind control serums could have a "taboo" and an "illicit" premiums. For these, you cannot market them conventionally. For those you have to develop a black market contact. But the black market has a twist. Some black marketeers will try to blackmail/intimidate you for discounts.

Although I like how it sounds and would love to see it implemented in the game, I agree with those who say that before making such a profound change in the gameplay, the graphic aspect of the "serum recipes" would have to be tweaked. Perhaps it would be interesting to distribute this great change in the market in 3 or 4 updates and, little by little, to modify the interface of the serums. (I trust google translate hasn't done a lot of damage ...).

Hmm. What if you get access to specific research traits by taking on contracts, instead of the big flat list we have now?

C

A simpler approach would be give each serum a "novelty" premium. New serums with a set of traits that have never been seen on the market command a premium. The longer that item is on the market, the less of a premium it commands. However, with a legendary marketing person, you can have serums develop a "branding" premium. Branding stabilizes the the price, but requires constant work on the part of your head of marketing.

I think it sounds fun but we need a better way to organize traits and serums. A faster interface with going between departments would be nice. I think if the MC had an office, being able to login to a computer and alter productions, policies, research, hiring, inventory, anything really that isn’t standing in front of an employee interacting would make the business side less of a pain. If you work in a department, go there, but most everything should be able to alter out of a MC office and later upgrade through company funds to change things on a business line for the phone so you don’t even need to go in the office if you’re working on something else in game and don’t want to forget.

Xador

please don't do this the game, it is difficult as is. I understand the need to evolve your game, but don't evolve it to the point where you forget what it is.

Flame

I think the changes would be too much. the game would feel like a market simulation, but that's not the main reason i play it. I would probably get out because if I want to play market simulations, I play "Patrician" or "The Guild".

I am psyched about this evolution of the game that I enjoy already! I would like to support Vren more but, sadly, my financial state does not allow me to do more than I am doing.

Shinnjin