AI Art and making sure your funds are utilized
Added 2022-12-31 13:48:11 +0000 UTCI wanted to create a post to start having an honest dialogue about AI art. If you have noticed, some of the CCG work of late has started including AI art. I know some here are okay with that, some may be not, so please post here your thoughts. What I did want to assure our patreons is that your money is being used in places we haven't in the past. Illustrations cost ... secret fighting arts, events, gear all ate at budgets.
We will continue to utilize illustrators, but on more specific tasks such as Quarry / Nemesis illustrations where AI just fails miserably. Now that AI art exist, we can start opening some of those budgets up for custom models. Models are by far the most expensive part of any project, eating multiple months of patreon funding, so we are glad to start increasing those. Veriphedian (which we will complete early 2023 as we have permission from the creator), Scourge Lord, Harvester Worm, Cinder Festival (which you will find has quite a number of models), Lantern Bear (a new node 2), Hisspitter (a new node 1), and Scalding Seas (also has a number of models) all have custom models. Hopefully many more to come.
As Kingdom Death players, we are here for great story, cool challenges, and amazing art .... we are so excited to continue all of that into the new year.
Thank you so much for your support and feedback.
Comments
In general I am intrigued. It should be known which AI created the images and on the bases of whose creations or which exact wording was used to trigger the creation. I think it is ok for private and non-profit use. Really difficult to decide if a particular personal art style can be recognized. Kickstarter just banned AI art in projects.
Eli
2023-01-23 14:42:37 +0000 UTCIt's interesting that we cannot even enforce those ethics with humans today regarding plagiarism. I've been watching Rob Liefeld deal with someone who is claiming a piece of work is a Liefeld original and saying they watched Liefeld draw it in front of them when it is pretty clear it is not. As long as there is a human element involved, there will always be theft, whether it is created by an AI or another human.
Rob Guinn
2023-01-10 21:09:29 +0000 UTCI find your statement about the moral implications and straight-up theft interesting. Isn't that what art is? Studying and learning from those that came before and coming up with your own style? I do not see anyone out there selling AI art as original artwork saying it's...say...an original Vallejo painting. It will be interesting to see how it all evolves.
Rob Guinn
2023-01-10 21:02:41 +0000 UTCI'm fine with AI art have you thought about training the AI on KD art to mimic the style?
Nathan Bryan
2023-01-09 23:33:06 +0000 UTCA little late to the conversation, but I'm for using AI art in releases. I think the flexibility it provides financially will be a benefit to the project.
Grumble Bumpkin
2023-01-09 05:23:01 +0000 UTCI can’t wait to get these monsters printed out and on the table!!
Son of Nocturne
2023-01-03 23:15:27 +0000 UTCI see your point, and agree there is some line beyond which a work is inspired by rather than copying. I work in AI and my challenge with it is that current models are not trained to be ethical, so while some images it generates might be well over the line, it is also happy to blatantly plagiarize to fulfill a task and provides no indication to the user to judge for themselves. I'll be accepting of AI art when the models are trained to consider that and perhaps provide attribution to the artists whose work contributed to a piece, both so we can judge the output and to give some credit back to the inspiring artist as a human artist might do.
Robert Jamison
2023-01-03 16:56:39 +0000 UTCPersonally I'm all for AI art and don't mind if it's used to help shift costs. I really don't support the argument that it's plagiarism since no art is really unique. Any artist is pulling from their background, artistic styles they like, artists that influence them, etc so a computer that's pulling from a dataset even based on artists doesn't seem different to me, they're just processing that data faster do to speak. As long as it's labeled and allows content to be released faster I'm all for it.
Zero
2023-01-01 22:23:12 +0000 UTCI'm for no art over AI art. I support folks on Patreon because I want to support independent creatives. The present state of AI art is just plagiarism through complicated enough means that the person pushing the button doesn't feel bad about hurting the creatives that produced the content it was trained on.
Robert Jamison
2022-12-31 21:15:21 +0000 UTCIt would entire book reformats or card reformats … and being this is a hobby “job”, it would be an impossible task. I think just being careful about how its use and transparent would be a solid start
Tommy Rayburn
2022-12-31 20:12:30 +0000 UTCI'm somewhere in the middle regarding the AI art debate. As someone with an art background, I hate the moral implications and straight-up theft of other artists' styles and work. However, I'm also fascinated by what AI art can accomplish, and I know how expensive and time-consuming illustrations can be for a project. It really does seem like a good middle-of-the-road solution. I think I'm OK with it as long as it's clear that AI art was used. What about offering an alternate with no art? Not sure how feasible that would be.
Mark Senger
2022-12-31 20:09:41 +0000 UTCI, for one, welcome our robotic overlords.
Timothy Roller
2022-12-31 17:56:28 +0000 UTCI'm fine with your decision. I don't see an issue with using AI art for this type of project.
Henry Lopez
2022-12-31 17:26:00 +0000 UTCI have had similar feelings to Beleander in terms of not being happy with the way in which AI art utilizes existing artists work as a teaching tool and not compensating nor offering an opt out. That said I fall on the other side in terms of my ultimate feeling with regard to CCG work as it is not for profit and thus I feel fine with CCG creators using it to generate illustrations as they like.
Clint Walker
2022-12-31 16:29:59 +0000 UTCThe first 2 ones have a strong kdm vibe for me (or maybe it just me drawing some connexion)
David Savarin
2022-12-31 15:44:39 +0000 UTCThe Vast in the Dark - Exploring Ruins in an Infinite World, via @Kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/appalachia-gothic/the-vast-in-the-dark-exploring-ruins-in-an-infinite-world?ref=android_project_share
David Savarin
2022-12-31 15:43:53 +0000 UTCThe Thawing Kingdom, via @Kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/rowanalgoet/the-thawing-kingdom?ref=android_project_share
David Savarin
2022-12-31 15:43:19 +0000 UTCInto the Wyrd and Wild - Revised and Reprinted, via @Kickstarter https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/jiangshi/into-the-wyrd-and-wild-revised-and-reprinted?ref=android_project_share
David Savarin
2022-12-31 15:42:54 +0000 UTCHave a link? I could not find.
Tommy Rayburn
2022-12-31 15:12:55 +0000 UTCHave a link?
Tommy Rayburn
2022-12-31 15:06:45 +0000 UTCThank you for your input. Would it help if each release we specified if it did or did not use AI art?
Tommy Rayburn
2022-12-31 15:00:47 +0000 UTCAs long as the sources arent scavenged from artstation and such, please go for it. As a side note regarding funds and their uses : would you consider a cross work with the people who did into the wyrd and the wildd, the thawing kingdom, into the vast... i just read those pieces and they would be amazing additions to kdm parts.
David Savarin
2022-12-31 14:59:29 +0000 UTCAt least right now there are many issues with AI art generators using/stealing art from human artists as (sometimes very obvious) reference, with very often no option for those artists to be excluded from it. Except for the moral issues AI art looks fine for the most part
Beleander
2022-12-31 14:58:31 +0000 UTCI would love to hear your reasoning. Right now I am leaving it up to each creator to decide how they want their funds spent.
Tommy Rayburn
2022-12-31 14:55:27 +0000 UTCComissioning custom art is of course expensive, but I'd prefer no art at all over AI art.
Beleander
2022-12-31 14:53:21 +0000 UTCAs purely an end user I want the funds to be used in the best possible way to achieve great content. If AI art means that you can shift some of the art costs to other areas, without compromising quality (and as far I know AI art can create some incredible pieces), and it will lead to overall improvement then I have no issues with it.
Maciej Teclaw
2022-12-31 14:37:08 +0000 UTCI’m more than happy for you guys to decide how best to utilise my financial contribution. If you think the AI art for certain parts looks good and fits then carry on. At the end of the day you are the creative team and I respect that you are best placed to use and utilise funding to create your visions. Keep up the great work.
Lee Anderton
2022-12-31 14:10:11 +0000 UTC
