LGR - Building a 486 SBC DOS PC!

I'm happy to hear it! Thanks a bunch for your support :)

LGR

Dear Clint. Your videos are so relaxing, yet still so entertaining. You deserve at least a dollar! Thank you for all the great videos!

dans

I'm watching the video and my guess about the DMA channel conflict is the parallel port DMA set to 1 for ECP mode. But, I digress, or it could be the lack of 3.3V power, but I'm not certain.

IIRC, I've seen P4 bassed systems that work in the ISA/PCI looking slots of your breakout board, it's been over 10 years since I've seen them though. It was an in person experience, the Vocational school I went to had them in some of the machinery systems, I was in the A+/Net+ class. I was tasked with updating the 486 card to the P4 card. It was a direct swap and a single floppy to update it. There was a Compact flash card I had to swap too. 10 minutes of opening the box, vacuuming out the vents and turning it on later it was done. I wish I remembered more about it.

Annabella Williams

Enjoyed the vid. You have done woodgrain. You have done plastidip. Something new is on the cards. Powder coat? Chrome spray paint? Brushed metal? Wall paper ? Vinyl wrap?

DOSGamerMan

This is awesome! I worked with a lot of SBCs back in the day. The PC/104 format was the coolest. Just stack those puppies up!

Krystal Kamieniecki

Well I hope you're hungry after seeing that drive bay, because I sure am.

Steve Lovelace

About the style, make a very faint beige-black striped vynil sheet and cover the case lid with it, do nothing with the front part, not sure about the name lol

SupaPhly

Thanks for the update! Happy Thanksgiving!

Homero Trevino Lopez

I actually remember having an old Pentium 4 desktop that’s long gone, I remember it being not the best and it being so slow. I kinda wish I had a 486 or some sort of Windows 98 AMD thing (for perfect mediocrity) laying around lol. I currently have a Dell Optiplex 990 that I’ve performed a bunch of personal upgrades on, including a SoundBlaster Audigy FX lol

AJPRIME TECH

It's definitely worthwhile! There are tons of these things floating around still from industrial surplus :)

LGR

It's still there, refresh the post for the latest links.

LGR

What happened to the video? I was super excited to watch this one! :,(

Jurassic_Jacob

I had no idea that there were these kind of single board computers!! I might have to pick up one of these things and a backplane to go with it lol!!

AJPRIME TECH

Fantastic video, Clint! Retro builds are super entertaining, specially an odd one like this. Is it possible the IDE adapter was causing the issue with the disk and the CD drive?

LJFox

I am glad you were able to save that case before it was eaten. xd

That Cirrus Logic video chip was quite a common video chip used in a lot of video cards and laptop computers in the era before 3D cards became common. On the bright side, they are well supported by Windows and I think everything from Windows 95 and onwards has built in drivers for them.

The 8-Bit Guy

"Aged like a fine yellow wine" Definitely going to be using that in the future

MrFortyFive

Thanks, I'm glad to hear it! It's definitely got me thinking about future builds along these lines, there's a lot of potential. Someone sent in a Pentium III SBC a while ago that would be fun to try!

LGR

This was great, I really like seeing retro builds that make use of different hardware than you'd typically see. That backplane looks super clean.

That is is! Or perhaps an even smaller backplane in a smaller case. I'll be thinking about it. 👍

LGR

Huh, now I want you to redo the whole thing using that other ISA-only backplane. It just seems so much better suited for this particular build IMHO

Hugo Cardozo

I think the WB Enhanced bit of the cpu naming indicated that it has a write-back cache for the main memory which must be where the extra performance is coming from

Sam

I'm thinking that'll be the consensus from most. Curious to see once it goes live!

LGR

That'd be extremely useful indeed! I really like the idea of being able to swap around the guts pretty easily without re-doing the rest of the setup.

LGR

Might just have to do that, I've been meaning to do some OS/2 content.

LGR

A socketed one, as mentioned :) No biggie, easy to replace with a new one when the time comes. Heh, time.

LGR

I'd just keep it as it is in terms of design. I think it looks perfect.

Alyxx the Rat

Oh no, a Dallas clock chip! :O

Eric Siegel

SBC's are pretty fun :) I have one with two 233mhz from amd. It would be fun to replace one perhaps with a 600/700 mhz sbc. So I could have one high end dos machine and a nice windows 98 machine in one box. Come to think of it, windows 2k and linux retro server would be more usefull.

Uncleawesome

The perfect system to run OS/2 Warp on. Best OS after Linux!

G3rn0ti

I've been meaning to put together an SBC build for some time now (have a nice Pentium 133MHz VL-BUS SBC which I scavenged from a previous work place), but I haven't found a resonably priced backplane yet - they are demanding ridiculous prices on Ebay for a PCB with a few slots... In the old days I would have cut out the needed section of an old 386 board, but these days this is not acceptable :)

Kim Voss Schrader

Glad you went for the longer form in this one. Seeing a 486 come DOS machine come together really gets me in the feels, reminding me of a time when I was young and scavenging parts to put together 386/486 machines.

Thanks, Troy!

LGR

Not gonna lie, I wish that “FOOD” faceplate could have been framed or something. Nonetheless, another great video, sir!

TroyTakesPhotos

I'm unsure, but regardless the way it's constructed is not exactly ideal on multiple levels.

LGR

That's actually what I was using! Also tried older versions of Jill and Xargon, no difference. Seems that it's actually a DMA issue from the way my SB16 was configured. Thanks though!

LGR

I'm not entirely familiar with how that PSU works but ... is that mains voltage connected to that front switch? The wires running to the switch look an awful lot like mains AC lines, seems dangerous.

Leigh Beattie

Clint, I had the same Jill of the Jungle sound issue on my 486+SB Pro build. Check this vogons thread and community patch, it fixed all my issues. https://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=31501&start=20

The things shown in the video were donations and I don't know where they were sourced. However, there are *tons* of SBCs on eBay in the Business/Industrial category, as well as some in the Computers category. Finding manuals or documentation for each specific one has proven to be a bit tricky though, so it'd be ideal to find one that comes with some docs either physically or found online so you can figure out the jumpers. Once you choose one though, really all you need is the SBC, a passive backplane with the slots you want, and a fitting power supply. Seems to be pretty open-ended with those three components :)

LGR

I did try using cable select but unfortunately no luck with the DOM on the same IDE channel. It simply defaulted to the module taking the place of master and nothing showing up as slave.

LGR

Running a BBS is still a big goal of mine. Especially if I can get it going over a real phone line. And I use Adobe Premiere Pro!

LGR

Yep! But as mentioned in the video, I don't have any of the drives that it accepts. The SB16 MCD only has proprietary interface headers, no IDE.

LGR

Can you get a CD-ROM connected using the Sound Blaster card?

John Bronson

more or less, yep... a lot of these 486-based SBCs were manufactured well after they were obsolete in the normal consumer and server spaces for awhile and AMD actually kept producing 486/5x86 CPUs quite late as well (ones that look like this with the etching are some of the last made: http://www.cpu-collection.de/showimage.php?i=AMD_Am486DX4-100SV16BGI_B10150D5C&s=big&tb=1&r=0 )

Phoenix Lumen

I've been waiting for this video ever since I saw you mention it. I want to see if I can get a very small ISA backplane, one of these SBC boards, and see just how small of a 486 (or 386) I can make! I'm seeing as small as a three slot ISA backplane on eBay at least, and that should be enough for SBC + Sound Card. Any tips you might have on what I might need to do to accomplish this (or a different way of getting a super small 486 that can still be used for gaming)? Any tips for us that might want to source our own SBC + backplane?

aetherspoon

DOS on an SSD? This is LGR, not Drauga1! :p

Honorary Octopus

Ooh, awesome video, never seen one of those SBC things in action before n.n I wonder if the disk module would work with the CD-ROM with a cable select cable? I didn't see mention of that in the video, but I've got to imagine that's something you tried.

Simon Tesla

You know...that would be a great computer to run a retro BBS on. BTW, what video editing software do you use?

Is it named HS-5x86HVGA because it supported the AMD 5x86 as well?

Lennart Sorensen

Happy to hear it!

LGR

Any ideas on why it might ignore the master/slave settings of other drives on the bus? I've never encountered that before where an IDE drive straight up shuts out other devices, it really threw me for a loop! So I assume there's a good logical reason for it, considering its industrial origins.

LGR

"FOOD" thanks for the video! it's lovely as always. perfect to wind down after a long day before going to bed.

eveningdreamer

Ha! Fun question, I have no idea.. Perhaps I can see if anything works with both a 486 and XT SBC out of morbid curiosity.

LGR

I am kind of curious about seeing what happens when you have more than one SBC in that backplane. Does it create a thermal problem in a normal AT case? What about that keyboard connection? is it shared amongst all the SBCs? What would happen if you have 2 SBCs and 1 Sound Blaster? would both SBCs try to control it? Great video as always. Thanks!

Homero Trevino Lopez

On the DOM not liking being with any other device, that sort of makes sense. IDE drives use a master/slave system to add/remove themselves from the bus. That's not news to anybody here I'm sure. It likely was responding to every request the CD drive was getting as I can almost guarantee that it ignores the master/slave line completely. That said, if an adapter doesn't exist to force an IDE off the bus (tristate) based off an external jumper, one could probably be made fairly easily.

avfusion

Ah, consider me intrigued by the 6-slot system. I'd be curious to know what kind of smaller case you're using for that!

LGR

I actually tried an IDE controller card for a bit in the midst of all the troubleshooting! It worked, but it seemed like such a waste to have to disable everything integrated onto the SBC, you know? May as well have been using any old normal 486 motherboard then. So I went back to the CF adapter for now and I've got another Disk On Chip en-route :)

LGR

Yas! I have a few SBC PCs myself... my preferred way to do retro PCs. I have a full-length 8-slot (and Baby AT formfactor) PCI/ISA (PICMG) backplane very similar to yours, with a full-length Pentium SBC currently installed, and several other SBCs (386, Pentium Pro, Pentium-M, some VIA thing) I can swap around at will. But one of my favorites is a half-length 6-slot ISA backplane in a similarly small case, which I have a half-length 486 SBC (also very much like yours). The latter system is nice because it's so darn tiny compared to a normal-sized PC of this era (or any era, really) and can still fit most expansion cards I use (such as the obligatory sound blaster compatible ISA sound card). Anyway, enough about my SBCs... enjoyed your video!

Phoenix Lumen

Awh man. I was really bummed out you couldn't get the disk on chip working. And then again when the IDE solution let you down. I think I personally would've shopped for an IDE controller ISA card, out of pure spite, just to get that and the CD-ROM working at-once. It's a neat little thing you've got going on, though. I tip my had to you, good sir. Much love for these projects of yours.

Jan-Marten de Boer

Enjoy the video, sir!

LGR

It seems the consumer SBC space has been co-opted by the likes of, well. Single board computers! The likes of the Raspberry Pi, Arduino Mega, Odroid-C4, ASUS Tinker Board, Orange Pi, and all those kinds of ARM-y Linux-y things. Lots of fun to be had with those.

LGR

It's mentioned later on in the video, but nah, unfortunately this doesn't support the PCI slots. There are 486 SBCs with both ISA and PCI connections on the same card that support this backplane though, so I really should've used the 8 ISA slot backplane I later showed in the vid. I'll likely rebuild this using that!

LGR

Blessed are the geek, for they shall inherit the earth.

LGR

I haven't either until now for mostly the same reasons. Always thought that SBCs were kinda cool yet didn't see much reason to choose one over a full motherboard. But hey, can't beat the price of free right? Hope you enjoyed!

LGR

I briefly went over it in the video but it's a Baby AT case, which is built to house 8-slot Baby AT motherboards. Those are almost the exact same size as the 8-slot ISA backplanes this 486 SBC is intended to plug into, so it felt like a solid and era-appropriate choice to me. At least until I find something smaller perhaps :)

LGR

Very neat! Shame that these SBC's disappeared from the modern consumer market - hopefully with the rise in popularity with arm we may see a come back. Of course they didn't go away in enterprise, because blades share their roots with SBCs and backplanes.

Ian Spence

I'm also curious how the backplane can even support PCI slots from a motherboard connected to an ISA slot. Or is that particular setup only going to work with ISA slots? Or, maybe that backplane was designed also to support Pentium-on-a-card systems you plug into a PCI slot?

I like to buy more recently made "thin clients" for Linux experiments, and I can say the industrial hard drive thing has only changed shape into small form factor SATA flash devices that plug directly into a connector on the motherboard, though there is nothing stopping you from replacing that with an SSD of course.

I dunno, I like the little mini case but it seems like such overkill for the SBC and would be suited fine for a normal sized motherboard. I'd love to see a much smaller (3D Printed?) case for it instead.

I've never messed with the SBCs, mostly because I didn't really have any interest in trying to build one when I could build the same level system with off-the-shelf for far less. It's nice to see someone else doing this though.

Carey Brown

My prayers to the great LGR on the world wide web have been answered! Hallelujah!

Roel Eppink

Holy Yesplease! :D

Andrew Kirkby