Supernatural - 12x4 "American Dream" Full Reaction
Added 2022-10-03 05:43:58 +0000 UTC
Comments
Yeah, and also the thing where she says dean calls women bitches, he calls Sam a bitch, he calls men bitches. I think she’s going to far on the whole dean has issues with women.
Dean
2023-06-24 21:55:58 +0000 UTCWhere do you get the idea that Dean has issues with women? It's not just untrue, it's completely the opposite of who he is. Dean likes and respects women. He likes to have sex with them, but never uses them or betrays them. Dean has always hated witches, whether they are male or female. It has nothing to do with "bad women". In fact, Dean rather likes bad women. I also have no idea how Mary can be said to have chosen a romantic relationship over her sons (neither of whom existed at the time). She saved John. She made no deal concerning her future children because Azazel did not say what he would do when he came back in ten years. He did not ask for her son and she had no reason to suspect he would harm Sam.
Helen Wood
2022-11-05 14:06:50 +0000 UTCI agree with many of the others regarding Dean and how he views women. Personally, I think the reason that Dean has such a strong hatred of witches is more because of the fact that they are humans who (in his mind) CHOOSE to do evil…compared to monsters who are either born that way or are turned. I definitely think Dean has “mommy issues” (heck, and father issues)… but I think it’s more about abandonment. To him.. NOTHING is more important than family… nothing. (Thus him also being so hurt when Sam chose to go off to college.) I think Dean respects women (after all, look at how much he cared for Charlie.) Yes, he is a bit of a womanizer, but I think that’s more about him wanting/needing attention from a given female, without allowing himself to really open up and get attached and risk putting them in danger or losing them. I think Dean is just massively struggling with the fact that in his mind, Mary chose to walk away from her family and leave them again. I think he feels some major bitterness and anger over the fact that she made the deal with Azazel in the first place, and set her kids up to have the lives they have (even if he can’t admit that even to himself.) Regarding Sam’s powers.. I’m glad he doesn’t still have them/use them. I think it might make things a little too easy for the boys, and I like the fact that they are mere humans who kick so much monster ass.🙂
BunkerGirl
2022-10-04 11:44:33 +0000 UTCAgree with everything you said
Hasnaa
2022-10-04 07:30:39 +0000 UTCI love this episode so much, while i don't like Andrew dabb's writing or show running, many of the new writers that joined in his era are brilliant & i can't wait for you to love them, this episode is written by Davy perez and i loooove that he referenced sam's powers, ever since season 4 i have been wishing for him to get his powers back! It's so annoying that they made his powers disappear with yellow eye's death, i know it would make solving cases a lot easier & it would be another cas situation which is probably why they didn't do it,i love what you said about the leviathans & that maybe this family did that because of them, i agree that some of dean's behavior with women could stem from him subconsciously blaming Mary but i don't think it's aimed at supernatural beings specifically, i was so mad that Magda got killed at the end, f those British men of letters
Hasnaa
2022-10-04 07:27:41 +0000 UTCThere are so, so many great observations in this comment. I had similar, but far less coherent, thoughts percolating. You've saved me the trouble of sorting myself out. 😉 💜
SKK
2022-10-04 02:42:36 +0000 UTCYou can always share more on discord if you want to and have the time.
AdoptDontShopPets
2022-10-03 21:59:00 +0000 UTCI am in complete agreement with you, Michele. It is funny in general, but Jensen’s choice t make it look like Dean has difficulty is not really on character for Dean.
AdoptDontShopPets
2022-10-03 21:54:57 +0000 UTCI agree with other commentors on the Dean and women thing. I don't feel that that is what this episode is about. It's about families and how a family deals with trauma by either staying together or breaking apart. Dean's whole life he has believed that a family should stick together. So, much of his pain in season one is around Sam leaving the family and his desire to be a family again. He has given everything to keep it together including his life. When faced with his mom leaving, he immediately jumps to it being forever. Because Dean catastrophizes things which may seem dramatic, but is a cognitive distortion of many people with childhood trauma. So, in this episode he regresses to simple black and white thinking because the situation with his mom is too gray for him to handle at the moment. Because intellectually he knows Sam is right, but his heart is in pain. Therefore, he regressed to supernatural=bad because supernatural forces tore my family apart. Must fight supernatural to keep people together. Beth represents both the supernatural and keeping families apart. Meanwhile, he sees the family as people who fought to stay together even if the rest of society doesn't understand their life (much like the Winchesters themselves). He looks past all the red flags with the family because it is easier cognitively. Instead of admitting that his longstanding belief that 'family should always stick together' might be wrong, he ignores the obvious evidence in front of him. This is unfortunately something all people have a tendency toward to our detriment. Also, his trauma response to his fear and abandonment issues is to act indifferent while misplacing his anger to others. Those others that feel his frustration are both men and women. The priest, Sam, the corner, and Beth. I'm not saying I don't think both boys have very real issues with Mary which need addressing. I just don't think for Dean it's about women representing that for him here. Okay, I want to say so much more here about the mother representing Mary but this is already too long. I will stop now.
Meileen
2022-10-03 21:25:43 +0000 UTCYes! I think it even makes them MORE of a force to be reckoned with. Sam and Dean are "mere men" and so often underestimated by these powered up beings. Creatures always get overconfident and cocky thinking that just mortals can't stand against them.
Brenda Lewis
2022-10-03 18:21:51 +0000 UTC100% same re preferring that they're two humans battling and winning against powers much greater than themselves. There are plenty of other shows (many of which I like!) in which People With Powers are battling People With Powers; I'm more than content with the Winchesters being powerless -- in that sense -- as a contrast. 😌
SKK
2022-10-03 17:46:37 +0000 UTCI'm the same about Sam and his powers. For me, it's more that I like that Sam and Dean are just two humans battling - and winning - against powers much greater than themselves.
Michele
2022-10-03 15:58:50 +0000 UTCI'm odd in not liking it when Jensen makes decisions to have Dean seem silly like that. Dean is really good at physical things, so he'd have just hopped over that fence with no trouble. It's hard for me to adjust to some of the silly stuff they have Dean do with physical things. But he has changed, I guess.
Michele
2022-10-03 15:57:19 +0000 UTC“Yikes.” Yep, it’s one of those episodes. :)
Gabriel Mauller
2022-10-03 14:34:08 +0000 UTCSo Dean going over the fence - that was a Jensen decision! Which makes it even better. Also I love them in different outfits than the usual FBI suits. I love the little aspects of this episode, the nods back to Sam's psychic powers, because that was actually done BECAUSE of the devil and Azazel's plan to use Sam as his vessel. There are a lot of parallels this episode.
Sharon Owen
2022-10-03 10:53:17 +0000 UTCEveryone just needs some time, and I think whatever Dean says he could use it too. No matter how Dean feels about his mother his disgust for female supernatural beings is really based on the fact that they are supernatural beings. Does he have issues with women because of his mother's absence. Oh yes, he does. But I think it manifests itself more in his promiscuity than anything else. I have never seen him be abusive to human women, a little dismissive at times. Now as far as this Mr Ketch is concerned, he better hope like hell Sam never finds out cause that will be one dead Brit. Yes I love this episode too. I really don't want to see Sam regain his powers, I might be in the minority about that, but I love seeing him grapple with their aftermath. The emotional side of having them is more interesting to me now than him having them.
Brenda Lewis
2022-10-03 10:51:04 +0000 UTCI never saw the correlation between how Dean feels about Mary and his behavior towards witches and demons that are female. I think his behavior towards them is just that they are witches and demons, not that they're women. He was raised to hate the supernatural and that's regardless of sex. I think he always respected women because of Mary. He put her on a pedestal and in probably a better light than she deserved, because he was remembering from the perspective of a 4 year old. So, I think he doesn't hate women in any way, he just has no respect for evil women and he automatically thinks of witches as evil. Because they often are. Especially given that some get their powers from demons. And demons - even women demons - he's got no liking for them. Makes sense to me. So now Dean is finally getting to know Mary and it's wrecking his whole foundation.
Michele
2022-10-03 08:00:56 +0000 UTC
