Supernatural - 10x21 "Dark Dynasty" Full Reaction
Added 2022-06-01 15:46:20 +0000 UTC
Comments
Ugh, I hated having to watch you watch this. You were so happy at the start and I knew how much this would hit you. I was so angry at this moment, it was such a god damn waste of such an amazing character. Gotta admit I cried again watching your reaction. The only upside I can say is get someone to show you the panel where someone asks why this was done and see the reaction of not only the fans but the actors too. Oddly, i think its good that this came up on pride, it shows that representation still gets ripped out of shows in ways that could be avoided. I get that they wanted to create a rift/blame between the boys but they could have had something less permenant happen. x
Vyka Raxdon
2022-06-11 20:44:10 +0000 UTCThis is the moment I fully checked out of the show. This senseless need to make everyone else a martyr for Sam and Dean's bs was bad enough when they sacrificed Bobby, Charlie should've been a strict no touching rule for that character. She brought such a needed energy the show was missing that this is just... I stopped watching in real time at this point so everything else is gonna be new to me after this if I do keep going
ConsciousChronicle143
2022-06-11 14:15:12 +0000 UTCI understand how upsetting it was to lose Charlie, she was a great character and there was so much story left to tell about her. But I got numbed to it all when Bobby died, when they killed him I knew no one else was safe. But it is very much like life for real. Death comes to people who don't deserve it and tragically too. This is not one of my favorite episode, personally I think the Styne family is a stupid plot. We will see what comes of all this very soon though, won't we.
Brenda Lewis
2022-06-02 11:09:47 +0000 UTCCharlie's death is the one thing I think can send Dean over the edge and give in to the darkness of the Mark. Maybe Sam's death, as well, but right now Dean is pissed at Sam for lying to him, going behind his back, and pulling Charlie back into the B of the D. I don't think Dean will feel guilty at all, but I do believe he'll blame Sam and Cas.<p></p> <p>Yes, Charlie may have saved the day, but at what cost? Not only does it indirectly cause her death, but Rowena outwardly said that in order to break a curse, another curse has to be released. Like a future character will say "the world would survive with Demon Dean in the world, but Sam couldn't have that,"</p>
Amye Sabin
2022-06-02 07:03:35 +0000 UTCI went back and forth on it, but since you brought it up, I'm just going to weigh in on one thing, as a person "of color" -- a label, by the way, against which I frequently chafe as it's excruciatingly reductive, as though all non-white-presenting challenges are the same. These are some things I look out for: Is the person "of color" the first to die (in the horror movie) before we've had a chance to emotionally connect to him/her? Are people "of color" automatically paired off together because they're assumed to have things in common? Are the persons "of color" one-dimensional, without an external life or motivations outside of the (nominal) leads? Was the person "of color" textually necessitated to be a particular race for a plot point with him/her being otherwise undeveloped? (This was my problem with Bugs, not that anyone asked.) Is the person "of color" also LGBTQ, so the show can get a two-fer? (Gosh, that one... It used to happen *all the time* when I was growing up.) Were the roles the persons "of color" were given meaty, substantial roles they were likely happy to get? Not just for the paycheck? (Because, truthfully, many/most "of color" roles that are written to be "of color" are sh&tty or non-existent, and no one becomes an actor to be background "diversity".) Etc., etc. I recognize I can't speak for and I'm not attempting to speaking for everyone, but from my (Pollyanna?) perspective -- SPN could be argued to have had its issues with POC representation; however, with regard to *my* personal triggers, from my perspective, it did a lot -- a whole heckuva lot -- better than most shows, then and now. I give it an s-ton of credit for that.
SKK
2022-06-02 05:14:29 +0000 UTCCharlie's creator, Robbie Thompson, talked about her and this episode at a conference held at DePaul University in 2015. An extract from the following fan's report was his opinion on the matter:- ".... Robbie was candid about his feelings regarding Charlie’s death. When he was writing 10.18 [Th Book of the Damned], he was asked to change Jacob’s last name to Stein because Frankenstein… His reaction: WHAT? Then he was told: Oh, and we killed Charlie. His reaction: Double what??! Apparently he tried to talk them out of it. He emailed. He offered an alternative. He sent sternly worded texts. So much so that Bob Singer quipped, “Okay counselor…” He went down swinging, but we all know he didn’t prevail. Somehow it makes me feel better to know he tried though – and that he loves Charlie (and Felicia) as much as we do. There were quite a few fans at the conference who stopped to tell Robbie how much having a queer character on Supernatural meant to them personally. Her importance is felt deeply by Robbie as well....." Source: https://fangasmthebook.com/2015/05/14/weekend-with-the-writer-supernaturals-robbie-thompson-at-depaul-university/
rose mnor
2022-06-02 02:35:31 +0000 UTC*sigh* I haven't watched your reaction video yet, Shelley, for obvious reasons. So my post here is based on my previous initial memory of watching this episode back when it aired last time. Charlie's death, like Dean's, was more or less predicted in my corner of Tumblr fandom where I usually lurked. Fans already speculated someone would die most likely as a consequence of Sam/Cas's actions in trying to save Dean, based on many foreshadowing and parallelism factors in earlier episodes. But fans were lulled into thinking that Charlie WAS not the one since one of the producers in previous years hinted, that Charlie was a safe character from that particular fate. But of course, time changed and her status as a safe character also changed. A week before this episode aired, per usual they released promo photos. And one of them is the below photo: https://www.ksitetv.com/news/supernatural-spoilers-dark-dynasty-preview-images/65577/nggallery/image/sn1023b_0023r-jpg/ And as usual, fans analyzed everything, and, one of them came up with this spec: Charlie looked like she is in front of a crypt-looking mausoleum-like structure with the word Brothers on the arch. From there, this particular fan speculated that Charlie will die in this episode, and was also speculated as a consequence of the 'Brothers' action. My heart sank. Because these kids were very very good at speculations based on numerous factors including but not limited to set designs - in fact, they successfully predicted that Dean would become a demon last season. As the episode progressed, feelings of trepidation and bad foreboding clouded my whole being, and, yeah.... that ending happened. And I was lucky in that it was not a surprise for me .... *sigh* I was on leave from work that particular day. This was a moment for me that we always asked ourselves 'where were you' moment as [insert thing] happened: - I had an appointment that day to accompany my father for his medical checkup. My eyes stung with unshed tears as I drove to pick up my dad, and I called my sister-in-law on my cell, and I wailed at her " ... they did it, they killed her..." (we already talked about the possibility that Charlie would die in this episode based on the above fan's spec). But I had to control my tears because, yeah, appointment and tv show .... Anyways ........ The next two episodes were epic, and I hope you will enjoy them, Shelley.
rose mnor
2022-06-02 02:09:56 +0000 UTCVery well said, you articulated what i wanted to say so much better than i did
Hasnaa
2022-06-02 00:50:30 +0000 UTCSame!! I doubled over laughing 🤣 So, so good.
SKK
2022-06-01 21:47:56 +0000 UTC❤️ mental hugs
SuchALittleMonster
2022-06-01 21:15:25 +0000 UTCAs much as I HATE Charlie's death and everything about it, it did bring one of my all time favourite Comic Con moments into being when a fan asked what made them decide to do it and the entire cast just TURNED AROUND and left the question to Jeremy Carver and Andrew Dabb. I will never not find that hilarious...
DazzleFae
2022-06-01 21:12:00 +0000 UTCIn the 15 years this show was on the air, I rage quit twice: once in S7 after Bobby died and then after this episode. I think it’s safe to say that the vast majority of the fandom was LIVID after they killed off Charlie. It was just so…pointless. Like you were saying, if Sam had told Dean about it then they could’ve had Rowena and Charlie decoding in the bunker and this whole thing could’ve gone another way. This show has always had a habit of killing off female characters, characters who are POC, and queer characters. Or using their “sacrifice” to create brother drama and/or man-pain and guilt in one or both of the bros. And I know ppl are like “well they kill straight white dudes all the time and no one complains about that” but when the show is comprised of like 95% straight white dudes, it makes sense that more of them will get killed in the show. But of the 5% of more diverse characters, at least 75% of them get killed off! Pamela, Ellen and Joe, Rufus, Meg, Kevin, Charlie, the list goes on and on. Don’t get me wrong, I love this show so much, but I’ve never hated a show as equally as I loved it before. It’s a very hard juxtaposition to come to terms with. I mean I guess it says something that these characters are so well written that their stories are able to break our hearts. We all feel your pain😔💙
Kristin Dorner
2022-06-01 20:54:20 +0000 UTCI get why they killed her but the death scene was weak and what I mean by that is she did not get one - killed off screen really!! The character deserved better.
Kim Rigg
2022-06-01 20:33:44 +0000 UTCAgree 100% with everything with a special shout-out to that last part. And now this little troll is off to rewatch some of your gifs 😉
SKK
2022-06-01 19:08:01 +0000 UTCHey! It was really hard to watch this episode, you enjoying everything so much - as you should - until the ending there are a lot of really enjoyable moments. Cas telling Dean, "This call was pointless. My ride's here." is one of my fave Cas lines. It's so random and so obviously something he heard someone say before to get off the phone. I just love the awkwardness and ridiculousness of the conversation. The "interogation" scene between Dean and Sam is so well done, the camera angles, the dialogue, the acting, all brilliant. Sam telling Dean, "Charlie loves you Dean, we all love you!" and the fact that Dean doesn't really argue back, because he still doesn't know how to handle the idea that people love him that much. It's not something he can fathom about himself and that breaks my heart so much! 😞 This episode has a lot of incredible moments. Then there's the loss of Charlie. I'm not going to get into the "kill your gays" argument here, because I can see both sides of the argument in this particular case, and I've argued with myself over it many, many times. It's an intricate, multi-layered discussion and there just isn't room to do the argument justice, especially in a text based environment. I'll never be able to decide which side wins out in my head. So, I'll just say this: Charlie was an absolute gem of a character. She was a genius and a badass and a nerd and a relatable girl and an absolute champion of the Winchesters! She fought alongside them from the very beginning, choosing to do the right thing and take down Dick Roman and the leviathans in spite of being terrified. She did the right thing, made the moral choice and fought the good fight. Ever since then she's helped Sam and Dean at every turn. (even if she was a bit reluctant at first!) The character of Charlie is one of my absolute favorites in fiction, and her friendship/little sister relationship with Dean never failed to make me so happy! And I'll adore her always. It ripped my heart out of my chest to see her there at the very end, as did Dean's expression of absolute disbelief mingled with grief, Sam's attempt to choke down the bile that was rising also kills me every time. Charlie's death was horrific there's no doubt, and whether it needed to go down that way, can definitely be argued and as I said, I see both sides. But what can't be argued is the impact this one phenomenal character had in only 7 episodes! She was absolutely amazing! Hugs to everyone mourning the loss of this fabulous character. And Shelley, it makes me cry to see you cry - but I appreciate your willingness to share your true, honest reaction with us. And as I said above, just know we all went through that same heartbreak and we're sending you a big collective hug!
Linda Moore
2022-06-01 18:03:18 +0000 UTCSupernatural: always willing to sacrifice female/queer/young characters for the sake of furthering the plot of the male heroes. From a writing/plot perspective, i understand why she was killed, as it parallels things from s9 and is a catalyst for the rest of the season. But i think it was executed so poorly— the excuse to get her alone was so flimsy and it happened off screen. I understand and agree that Charlie was a wonderfully complex and well rounded character that wasn’t defined by her sexuality, but nevertheless the fact that supernatural’s only reoccurring canonically queer character was killed off so suddenly hits very hard. Particularly when as a lesbian, and a nerd, its very rare (especially in 2015 when this aired) to have representation in media. On a lighter note, the next two episodes are absolutely amazing, so i look forward to your reactions!
Kit
2022-06-01 18:01:28 +0000 UTCSeason 10 is an amazing season and for people to actually either stop watching or downgrade the season because of Charlie's death is insane. Every season we have lost great characters that we loved. Charlie played a huge role this season and went out like a boss and was instrumental in the save Dean journey.
Daniel Lewis
2022-06-01 17:55:36 +0000 UTC@Elizabeth , I wouldn't think that's an unpopular opinion...🤷 Thank you for ensuring Charlie's three-dimensionality is highlighted in this conversation.
SKK
2022-06-01 17:44:52 +0000 UTCbig things coming!!!
Jenna96
2022-06-01 17:42:24 +0000 UTCreally sucks what happened but i have to say we are officially moving into some of the greater seasons!! the next few for me were on season 5 level with "swan song" and the like!!!!
Jenna96
2022-06-01 17:42:17 +0000 UTCI just want to say this, and it’s probably an unpopular opinion, but I’m gonna say it anyway. The reasons Charlie was a favorite character were NOT because she was gay. She was an incredible character all by herself, and being a lesbian DID NOT define her. Her personality and brightness and attitude and spunk and especially her brother/sister relationship with the boys: THAT’S what defined her. That is not to say that I didn’t appreciate her sexual identity and its inclusion in the show, because I absolutely did. But her relationship with the boys was not based on that, and the reason her death is so devastating is not because of that. It might be unpopular to say so, but coloring her death as strictly an anti-LGBTQ move is insulting and demeaning and disrespectful to Charlie. She was so much more than that, brought so much more to the show than that, had so much more with the boys than that. This episode is devastating, but not because we lost a lesbian character. It’s devastating because we lost CHARLIE FUCKING BRADBURY, the bright, smart, funny badass she was.
Elizabeth
2022-06-01 17:36:15 +0000 UTCYes, let’s look at the bright side for a moment. Charlie: For Dean Cas: For Dean Rowena: I barely even know the man 😂😆😂😆😂
AdoptDontShopPets
2022-06-01 17:35:17 +0000 UTCHmm… I had never noticed the mark specifically making Dean want to kill Sam. I’ll have to pay attention and see if I missed something in past viewings.
AdoptDontShopPets
2022-06-01 17:30:28 +0000 UTCFirst, positives -- I never had a problem with Charlie's death from a plot / storyline perspective. (Don't worry; I'm getting to the bad.) I get that they're trying to directly parallel how Dean's decision could be argued to have cost them Kevin, and Sam's decision could now be argued to have cost them Charlie. (Also, more obviously, [other plot stuff].) I get that; it all "makes sense" from a bird's eye view. What I had issues with (after the fact, when I'd had time to process the emotional gut-punch of losing her) is more granular. Apologies in advance for a little bit of a rant: - How many deaths of deeply beloved characters do they think fans can take so close together? - Did no one up top consider pre-empting -- or at least circumventing -- the optics? (Yes, there were only so many options of valuable pieces on the board, but Come. *ON*, guys…. And I know a few people within Show tried to fight this, cast & writers included.) - The reasons for Charlie being alone and at risk seem transparently contrived for such a brilliant character who was also being watched by an "angel of the Lord." Buck-Leming: the King and Queen of Contrivance. Now that discord has informed me the person responsible for this is someone (and his lady wife) who, as I've said before, I think is quite capable of missing the trees for the forest, that makes even more sense than the original plot decision. …*But* not "mad" (I tell myself), love Charlie, glad we had her. Next episode, next episode... (Hey, self, stop crying. Start thinking... We good?) Okay, from an in-world perspective, some deaths are senseless; for hunters, as Dean just told Claire, "it's not a long life." And Charlie was a badass hunter who took a brave stand. I'll hold on to some other great moments, acting-wise, from within this episode, because there really were some. 💕 Forging onward. Hugs, everyone.
SKK
2022-06-01 17:28:47 +0000 UTCOh I love that thought of Charlie in heaven with her family versus being alone in a room like Bobby had been.
AdoptDontShopPets
2022-06-01 17:27:50 +0000 UTCEverybody's least favourite Charlie episode and one of the hardest episodes of Supernatural to watch. This one breaks every heart. On the other hand, like Ellen and Jo, she got the sort of death reserved in most of TV for male characters. Charlie died for Dean, her brother. Every time Dean kills, the mark's power over him grows stronger. As it grows, it works harder to make him kill Sam. His anger with Sam in this episode is stronger because the mark is urging him on. Dean is getting worse and will continue to get worse until the mark is removed. Dean would never have allowed Sam to continue. Sam had no choice. Like Charlie, he is working to save Dean.
Helen Wood
2022-06-01 17:23:43 +0000 UTCJust like last season with kevin and his conversation with crowley, rowena also warned charlie about being involved with the boys. Charlie has always been dean's parallel and her death here is very significant to the rest of dean's arc. We have the duality of rowena the monster and charlie the man and their many similarities but also we see their differences as charlie is loyal to her family unlike rowena. The stynes are men but also they are monsters metaphorically so we have the very obvious duality there. The main styne guy and his loyalty to his family motivated him to do what he is doing just like Sam was doing for dean. Rip charlie. She was a great character and hopefully she is having christmas with her family in heaven.
Christopher simeon
2022-06-01 17:08:11 +0000 UTCThis episode is why season 10 isn't higher in my ranking, and one of the reasons why i hate buckleming, they killed charlie the character Robbie created, they just don't care who they kill unless it's the characters they themselves created, they suck imo, this is the stupidest thing SPN has done, many fans in my corner of the fandom dropped the show after this episode, they just lost hope that this show could ever care about their fans & the one character they see themselves in, the show had ONE lesbian character that appears twice a season & even that was too much for them? And the way she died off screen & was dumped in a bathtub bloody is so disrespectful, just a collateral damage, just one more fan fav female character dying for Winchester man pain 😏, and her leaving off on her own just to get away from Rowena being chatty is the dumbest plot i have seen, that place they were in was huge, she could've easily went to another room, in fact cas took Rowena to another room, very simple solution, also headphones are a thing, there's no need to go off to a hotel far away alone when you know people are hunting you down, they had to make the smartest character in the show make the stupidest decisions just so they can kill her by some stupid Frankenstein family, that's so dumb, i hate it, the whole Frankenstein family thing came out of the blue, it's like they were especially created to kill charlie, killed by Nazis & dumbed in a bathtub, i am still not over this & will never forgive the show for this, i was this close 🤏 to dropping the show myself, and i know people always say well straight characters die on supernatural too why should a gay character be treated differently & to that i say when you have a 100 straight characters on the show & only one lesbian yeah it matters that they live, if you had like 5 & killed one that's fine, it's not equality to kill the only lesbian character like you killed 10/100 straight characters but some people will never understand, anyway just another way to emphasize that choosing your own blood over the world isn't a good thing & has consequences, i also shipped Rowena/charlie for a hot minute before she died, Rowena said they're both sexually progressive & very alike 👀 i see you Rowena, she just wanted charlie as her witch apprentice 😭, i understand if you need time to process, this is very depressing, happy pride month i guess 😭 hopefully the fan content helps lift your spirit a bit
Hasnaa
2022-06-01 17:00:49 +0000 UTCI wasn’t ready for this - I don’t think anyone can be. I’m sorry, it was a tough one. Know we are there with you. Absolutely the episode that wrecked me. I know people who left the show and fandom because of it, and i can’t blame them. You’ve asked sometimes why people hate Buckleming so much - this is probably the biggest reason.
Rae
2022-06-01 16:53:14 +0000 UTCSurely gay characters dying just like the many many straight characters that die is a true sign of equality. Loved Charlie what a great character and her relationship with the boys especially Dean but the oh they had to kill the lesbian or gay character is like wait so they are characters that should be treated differently and only straight characters should die all the time. Charlie was much more than just a lesbian character.
Daniel Lewis
2022-06-01 16:49:38 +0000 UTCEven before watching, we all knew that thumbnail was from before the episode. 😭😭😭 One of the most painful deaths in all SPN. Hate to say while we have enjoyed your reactions to Charlie’s episodes, we have also been waiting for this point in the story. 🥺
AdoptDontShopPets
2022-06-01 16:49:04 +0000 UTCCharlie told cas she could feel something bad was gonna happen and I think that's what was bugging her so much with Rowena, Rowena said they would be her downfall but Charlie wanted to ignore that and soldier on cos she loves the boys. And Rowena was right, I was so heartbroken.
Kyle
2022-06-01 16:48:39 +0000 UTCI have an irrational hatred of season 10 and it is completely down to this episode I don't think I will ever get over the devastation of watching this for the first time I know we have lost characters in the past but Charlie was just so relatable and yet another Lesbian character being killed in media I properly sobbed when this aired
Stacey
2022-06-01 16:22:44 +0000 UTCI haven't watched the reaction yet - but I wanted to send you hugs and let you know that we all went through this heartbreak too. It hurts! Hugs!!
Linda Moore
2022-06-01 16:11:11 +0000 UTCI needed a good cry today. :(
Gabriel Mauller
2022-06-01 16:02:26 +0000 UTCYou look so happy in the thumbnail 🥹 sending you a lot of hugs!
Luis Nov
2022-06-01 15:48:35 +0000 UTCDon’t know if im ready to watch this :(
Kit
2022-06-01 15:47:21 +0000 UTC
