Ramble: Wonder Woman

K I know im too late and shouldnt have any opinions on a movie that old and not super memorable but the only thing I remember about wonder woman is being so annoyed about the love interest. The entire thing ruined the movie for me. I dont remember the plot at all, all I remember is I just hated the guys face. I think it had big male love interest written by dudes vibes? Anyways, imo it should have been mlp- it should have been about platonic friendship love!! I think I was most annoyed because the movie would have been very pleasant otherwise but i had big sour grapes over that romance plot

Scrum Diddely Umptious

I wish your old videos still had links to watch!

Erin Milliken

It's too bad your Mary Sue rant is in this unlisted video because you make great points that I wish more people would see.

Tyler Samson

Did you ever send Max this video? You've met and become friends since then and he's changed his tune on the Mary Sue thing to a degree that is somewhat in line with what you said here.

Joe Bloe

Augustus Caesar's mom was over protective.

Bill Holt

Hi, just FYI I think a lot of Native Americans don't like being called "Indian" by non-natives. Some do call themselves that but I believe a lot of them don't think it's wholly appropriate for the rest of us to just refer to them as Indian.

Okay so I wanted to watch the whole video before I commented but after like 20% of the video was just about why Rey from Star Wars isn't a Mary Sue I lost interest. I really don't mean to be such a critical dick but this is the first patron video I've seen. Anyway I disagree with most of everything you have to say in this video except that Arrival was bad, which it was (At least Villeneuve's worst feature to date) and that Wonder Woman and Rey are not actually Mary Sue characters (which they are not)! So basically I'm just going to complain about Wonder Woman in a rambling comment! My biggest issue with the movie is a thematic one, in how it presents human conflict. Chris Pine's character talks about how the war is convoluted and confusing and morally grey, and how this is a war with no good guys! And yet we are expected to cheer for him as he is blowing away prussians with a shotgun? From the moment the Germans beach on magical Amazon island, the movie seems to have very concrete ideas about who the villains are and who the heroes are. You could argue that "well they made Aries a British guy" but that doesn't change the fact that the guy who kills his allies and huffs moon dust and is trying to drop a super weapon on a population center wears the same uniform as the guys brutally oppressing European villagers for no reason. Or that when he is defeated you see a bunch of German soldiers hugging and crying. For some reason his war-magic didn't have any effect on Wonder woman's allies or indeed any of the British characters we meet for the entire movie. If they were going to go into it with that in mind, it begs the question of why they didn't just set the movie in the morally unambiguous World War 2, as opposed to the genuinely convoluted and tragic World War 1 to which I have a possible answer: The problem is, in World War 2, the country with the mass-death super weapon was AMERICA and we ACTUALLY USED IT. TWICE. On the topic of World War 2, if Aries was causing all the problems, does that mean World War 2 still happened? In the DCEU did Hitler or the Nazis come to power?was there a holocaust? Does the United Nations exist? And if the answer to these is yes then it just proves that she was wrong the whole time about the nature of man!! Speaking of the philosophy of this movie, despite its veneer, this movie is UNABASHEDLY pro-War. Chris Pine has a whole mini-logue about how "well you can either do nuthin or do sumthin!" which is a tacit endorsement of interventionism, the cause of almost every American involved conflict after 1945. Also as a smaller gripe, she destroys a whole church with a tank (to kill a single sniper) which is a war crime. It's a war crime to deliberately destroy religious structures. Like I think Wonder Woman's biggest weakness is her naive optimism and stubbornness, but that doesn't matter if her overly simplified world view gets completely validated at the end! The movie has like liberal curtains, and for some reason that prevents anyone from seeing the rest of the hawkish decor that fills the rest of the room where WE are the good guys and it's OUR JOB to find the BAD GUYS all over the world and STOP THEM!! Chris Pine's character seems to be the only who speaks truth about how War actually works and how mankind actually behaves, and he ends up just being totally wrong and it's Aries the whole time. Which again begs the question of why there would ever be any conflict ever again for the rest of Human History. Anyone I thought it was neo-liberal pro war propaganda and I really did not like it at all. Was that clear?

Kevin Beteta

Split, really? That movie just isn't an accurate portrayal of people with MH problems, and I should know. I respect your opinions, but I really just don't like that movie, sorry. :/

Robert Butler

Congratulations on the move to the main Screen Junkies channel.

Stuart Payne

But wasn't Luke fallible pretty of times in ANH. He got beat up by the Tusken Raiser. He got beat up at the cantina. He got taken down by the trash compactor monster.

Blue Corn

" I still think Rey being so good at everything requires some sort of explanation." Rey being a good pilot is explained by her having a flight simulator helmet in a reference book. It's not the greatest explanation but Luke didn't have a great explanation for his piloting skills either. When he blew up the Death Star with no other training besides flying his T-16 on Tatooine, Luke did the equivalent of "playing with a go kart his entire childhood" and then winning the Indy 500 in his first pro race ever. Pablo Hidalgo sorta hinted that she might have picked up the jedi mind trick from Kylo Ren. He was trying to read her mind and she got a glimpse of his instead. Her defeating Kylo Ren in combat was a combination of the Force guiding her and Kylo Ren being weak from Chewbacca's blaster. We started to see Luke become more fallible in Empire Strikes Back. Hopefully the same is true for Rey in the 8th movie.

Ello Asty

"It makes no sense for Han Solo over the course of one conversation to decide that after years of searching for it the millennium falcon should not go to Chewbacca or Leia but to Rey" When did he do that?

Greg McDaniel

To be honest I don't even know what a Mary Sue is, but I still think Rey being so good at everything requires some sort of explanation. Star Wars has long established precedents of how fast a jedi/sith should be able to do stuff depending on how inherently force sensitive they are and how much training they got, whereas superheroes are just given unique superpowers that can't really be standardized in a way we can measure how strong they "should be".

Abel Cassius

Really, if Rey is a Mary Sue then so is Luke. They both quickly take on the most powerful people in the galaxy and came out alright. OK, maybe it takes Rey one film rather than two but there's not that much difference. For that matter, all the main characters probably qualify. Either that or all Stormtroopers have some sort of terrible physical disability. Poor stormtroopers. One of my few criticisms of TFA was that the bloody hand at the beginning seemed to point to a new understanding of their plight (as with my Wonder Woman comment at the top of the thread, it's that horror of conscription) but we were soon back to blowing them away like Charles Bronson blew away street trash. I haven't seen Wonder Woman but aren't all superheroes pretty much Mary Sues? Maybe that's why I find most of them not very interesting. To be honest, I'm not entirely clear about the term. I used to have the vague idea that it was something to do with Lucy Maud Montgomery. The bit with Leia hugging Rey instead of Chewie was regrettable, though.

Stuart Payne

Yeah, that side makes me a bit nervous about seeing it. Conscription bothers the hell out of me and to see that sort of war in a comic book setting... It seems like the sort of thing that could be depressing. I will watch it when it comes on the TV, though, like I did Deadpool (the only recent superhero film I've seen).

Stuart Payne

The "inexplicably" part might be explained in episode 8, though. IE Rey is a Palpatine, was adopted by Han and Leia and so grew up with Kylo Ren, was trained by Luke and witnessed the massacre of her fellow padawans (but survived because she was stronger than Ben and/or he couldn't bring himself to kill her and that's why he still had to prove himself to Snoke by killing his dad instead). Luke used the force to wipe out her memories and replace them with "your parents abandoned you on Jakku as a child" memories because imagination was never Luke's strong suit, and he dropped her on Jakku (as an adult) knowing she would survive just fine and worst case scenario she would steal a ship and look for her parents forever until she dies. That would explain why she can use the force like a trained jedi, knows how to fly the Falcon and Han isn't surprised by that, and of course why Han and Leia are fond of her and Kylo Ren knows who she is. It's a little convoluted, granted, but that memory switch thing has been done in Star Wars before, and they NEED an elaborate mind blower of this magnitude to explain the whole SuperRay thing or... or I won't like episode 8 either I guess... My theory also explains Luke's face at the end of Ep7 like... "Oh snap did Leia tell her everything? Better let her talk first to be sure... come on... yes that's my lightsaber... JUST TALK ALREADY!"

Abel Cassius

I think a lot of people including Max Landis confuse the basic idea of what a Mary Sue actually is. All a Mary Sue is is a character added into a pre-existing fictional universe that's inexplicably the best at everything and/or every major well-established character loves them immediately or their approval is easily gained. By the simple fact that it's her movie and the micro-universe within the greater DCEU is built around her Wonder Woman isn't a Mary Sue even if she's an overpowered character because the universe is built around that. What makes Rey one is that there's no reason for the way the original trilogy characters respond to her like they do. It makes no sense for Han Solo over the course of one conversation to decide that after years of searching for it the millennium falcon should not go to Chewbacca or Leia but to Rey. Why after the death of the love of her life at the hands of her own son would Leia want to hug and cry on the shoulder of Rei and not Chewbacca his best friend and one of her oldest friends? And does Chewie just come with the millennium falcon like a prewired speaker system the previous owner didn't want to bother removing? Those are what make Rey a Mary Sue in the same way basically every player character in a video game is, going from nobody to the leader of the entire army/kingdom/galactic empire after a few weeks. Sorry for the long post this is supposed to be your ramble, not mine. I love your videos and I hope this didn't come across as rude or disrespectful.

Ken Hall

If you don't feel it's appropriate to post the 13 Reasons Why video on your main channel, you could always post it here. We don't judge.

Blue Corn

What did you think about Cars 3?

Carlos Luna

I freaking loved Arrival. I really didn't think they would make movies like that anymore, it's not like people could sit through Close Encounters of the Third Kind nowadays. In any case, Arrival is not about aliens or language. It's about free will! A movie made for my dying kind. Ex Machina is a bit better, and it has Poe Dameron in it... what did you guys think of that one? It also has a slow burn feel to it.

Space Cadet

Which adverts do YouTubers get paid for? I always let the in-screen adverts play (apart, sometimes, from a couple of interminable local - South African - ones which I refresh to see others) but does it help if I click on the little, faint bar ones and the ones at the top right? I've been doing that, too, but does that help?

Stuart Payne

If I remember correctly, the PTSD guy was Scottish, not Irish.

Jason Gilbert

The guy that played the actor "Sammy" in the film is Moroccan French.

Blue Corn

The second Thor movie may be the least essential of the current Marvel batch. It also committed the sin of hiring a widely-liked actor (Christopher Eccleston) to play a character from one of the most highly-regarded story arcs from the Thor comics (Malekith the Accursed) and then give him so little to do. The first one, though, had lots of good character moments (I love that bit near the beginning where pre-humility Thor has arrived for his coronation and he’s walking through the cheering crowd, flipping his hammer, pointing out people in the crowd … “Hey, this guy right here! Yeah, he knows the score!”) and some legitimately compelling arcs, particularly for Loki. Also, Kat Dennings calls Mjolnir “Mew-mew”. I am unreasonably jazzed for Ragnarok. The Hulk was the best part of The Avengers and I had been waiting to see a proper fight between him and Thor since I was itty-bitty.

Thomas Nolte

I'd really like to see your 13 Reasons video. I think you'd deal with it in a sensitive but still enjoyable to watch way.

There is the term "Marty Stu" but it is much less used. Probably because, as you suggested, the Mary Sue allegation is often comes from people being sexist.

Derek Horkel

She actually IS the sister of the queen but her name also begins with "Ant"

Woody Jang

It is entirely possible I literally am confusing it with Catwoman because I saw them both only once and around the same time, but I also feel like yes that was just the plot of both of them

Jenny Nicholson

I loved arrival! I'm surprised you disagreed. The pace was slower and didn't rely on eye candy which I liked. I almost always agree with all of you choices or atleast am highly entertained. The background noise in this video drove me crazy though hahaha 😂 You could always post your 13 reasons why video here if not on your main channel if the concern is controversy. Keep up he great work Jenny!

Daniel Paugh

Since the aliens can see all time at once, there was no need to rush or do anything differently because they knew she would figure it out in time.

Did the Wonder Woman pilot really have the same plot as Catwoman, with an evil make-up lady who sells a product with a horrible side effect?

The BabaDuck

I liked the premise ok but honestly felt like its downfall was trying to be too cerebral when it didn't have a very original idea to put out there. Would have been better if it was just a generic popcorn flick but the tension is figuring out an alien language. The time element introduced was like, ok, it's not the first sci-fi story to imagine this power. And I feel the implications of this power have a limited number of angles to explore. And are just a little too outlandish to make sense. It also weirdly revealed this gimmick NEARLY at the end but not close enough to it, it still had an awkward 20-minute falling action where you were like "I GET IT." By the time you're seeing the painstakingly slow and over-explanatory scene with the chinese ambassador I was just like uggghghhhgh

Jenny Nicholson

Now you mention it, a little weird they couldn't manifest an image of a cartoon bomb with a countdown clock on it

Jenny Nicholson

Agreed, I know people don't like/count stuff that's "only explained in the books" and generally I get that. But imo even without the prequel book confirming it, there are obvious textually-supported reasons for Rey to be good at the things she's good at. She can fight because she grew up on Jakku where everybody's a starving evil criminal. She can fly ships because, even if you don't know about her scavenged flight simulator, it makes sense that somebody who spent her whole life familiarizing herself with ship parts to survive would know how to fix them and what their buttons do. And re: practical experience she even has a throwaway line to Finn explaining that she's flown in-atmosphere a few times.

Jenny Nicholson

I actually between shooting this and posting it talked to him about it anyway

Jenny Nicholson

the Arrival aliens were annoyingly persistent, the movie lost me after they failed to abandon trying to communicate via language and resort to Pictionary and/or Charades instead

F W Pancakes

Please post the 13 Reasons Why video. I'm sure what you have to say is actually insightful and worthwhile. There's a lot to unpack in that show, in a constructive way.

I know that I dislike the term "Mary Sue" because it is not a critique, it is a dismissal. It's also fairly sexist, since there is no male equivalent to the term. It's just another way for people to be insulting, while pretending they are merely being critical. Oh, and it was another entertaining ramble, thank you for sharing.

Daniel Fahringer

If that warrior lady was not Diana's aunt that is news to me

Blaise

The entirety of Arrival I was waiting for Jeremy Renner's character to have a point, and he kind of... never does. I guess we're supposed to feel something about the relationship between him and Amy Adams not working out even though we're never shown them liking each other. Like, at all. And all the people who complain about Rey being a Mary Sue are some fake geek boys who clearly didn't read the prequel novel that I certainly did not buy from the impulse display at a Michaels craft store while buying yarn. It explains everything and is... okay it's basically fan fic, but I enjoyed it and it does give a good reason for Rey to be good at flying (that helmet thing she puts on is a flight simulator training thing, she's basically just a video game nerd).

Stephanie Hohn

Do you want one of your patrons to tweet/PM this video (timestamped) at Max Landis? He has tweeted about your videos before so he'd probably watch it? That might be kinda weird too. Honestly, I think the best solution is to convince Screen Junkies to do a "Is Rey a Mary Sue?" movie fight question and have you and Max duke it out.

Derek Horkel

I found the no man's land scene kinda sad because she was kicking the asses of all these soldiers that she said weren't really evil, just corrupted by Ares. I think part of the reason I reacted that way was because your take on Vader's Rogue One slaughter which really resonated with me. I still loved Wonder Woman though.

Woody Jang