Bonus Episode 4: Protestantism

Watch season 2 of Two and a Half Popes out now on Peacock

It seems like the map at 18:30-ish uses latin names, in which case Jerusalem would be "Hierosolyma". (And the "Philadelphia" underlined in red is Amman).

Yeah the born-again stuff is wacky, it's literally God Weighs Your Heart Against A Feather. "God will see into your heart of hearts and know whether you truly repented".

Corporal Burpfart

Sorry to ask late: do any of you somehow have the name of the painting at 1:30?

Douglas Graebner

Sorry Alice I haven't got any Muslim jokes but I have a Catholic one... Jesus sees a group of people about to stone a woman for adultery. He steps in and shouts "Stop! let the one who is without sin cast the first stone!" at that point a rock is thrown from the crowd, striking the woman in the head. Jesus looks to see who threw the rock and shouts, "Mom!!!!"

Do you ever feel like the Abrahamic religions are just watching an increasingly frustrated and weepy diety try to convince the world that he didn't mean those drunk texts he sent to the Middle Eastern Hominids ten thousand years ago or whatever?

As a teenage history nerd before the internet, all I had were the family encyclopedia's to indulge my curiosity and I'd seen the words "Diet of Worms" a few times and knew it was in some way related to a thing called the Reformation and another thing called the Thirty Year's War. Young me interpreted these words, the "Diet of Worms", as a poetic reference to a time of famine in German history. There was so much turmoil and violence that people had to metaphorically (and probably sometimes literally) eat worms to survive. Made sense at the time and still kind of does. All of which is to say, I liked your joke Roz.

made patreon only for this episode. dont regret it. self loathing hard working lutheran speaking

My mother grew up in Christian Science and I cannot stress enough what a horrific, culty, destructive faith it is. Also, dying-off at an insane rate but still insanely wealthy because of their real-estate holdings.

DosVanya

"Cheating! Cheating! Cheating!" is the kind of warning a Popemobile alarm should make. It will warn you when your faith is running the risk of a spiritual CFIT.

ValdVin

As a protestant, you're right my faith is dumb, but who will be hangin with god in the end lol we'll see lads ;) so glad i paid $3australian for this it's a good laugh especially the whole trying to square the circle of the sola scriptura idea with keeping churches open in a pandemic. Paul specifically stated that Christians should follow "civil authority" as it was equal to gods authority and put there by god because the humans who created it are creation of god... this is something I've encountered a lot is that christians, especially protestants seem to have kinda said fuckit to reading their bibles and just decided that they know what god wants rather than referring to the scripture. I personally see this as a devide with "christianity" on one side and christians on the other. Christianty is the heretical church structure which spreads this garbage ideology while christians are the ones who actually fucking read the book and see the bible as a whole not just a fucking verse here and there which can be quoted completely out of it's narrative context in order to provide a veneer of "christianity" to being an abhorrent set of cunts. This is much the same devide you can draw between "Muslims" - good people (wrong book though Alice ;) ) and Islamists - a bunch of fannybaws who use select out of context bits of the book in order to do some murder rape and pillaging.

Martin Luther: nooooo you can't just sell absolution for money 15th-century Catholic Church: haha indulgence printer go brrrrrrrrrr

Alex Roselle

the First and Second Great Awakenings (c. 1700 and c. 1840 respectively) had a lot to do with the evolution of American Protestant doctrine, and then the rise of televangelists (actually started with radio, look up Aimee Semple McPherson) each moved the doctrine a ways further off track

Alex Roselle

14th century Catholic cardinals got sick of commuting from Rome to the suburbs in Avignon, elected Pope Urban, & renamed themselves New Urbanist Ministry for Tiber-Oriented Theologians

Alex Roselle

As a descendent of mainline PA Quakers on both sides (Generations at Westtown Friends School, Granddad a fixture at Lansdowne Meeting until the late 90s, tiny plain black dresses from the 1800s in the attic), thanks for saying that. I always talk back to my phone at about that point in the show, and now on my 5th listen I won't have to!

pamdemonia

Btw. I love how my Patreon looks like a fox wearing an mask, which they should do in company because they tend to have so many parasites. We've got rid of rabies in the 1980s but definitely not of parasites 😅

Sebastian Bohmann

And of course, all the services provided by the church's institutions are covered by the national social insurance system. Except things like tooth whitening, which you'll probably find somewhere in the vast Austrian Catholic church hospital system, simply because it's so big 😂

Sebastian Bohmann

Btw. we've also got a lot of extremely good municipality, state, and nation owned hospitals and other institutions but the share of the burden the Catholic church bears is crucial 😍 I'm personally not religious btw.

Sebastian Bohmann

Btw. I live in Austria and the Catholic church runs a lot of the institutions making up our market economy socialist system and they're really good at it. The socialist government of Vienna and the Catholic church cooperate on many levels and to be honest, this cooperation is foundation of the best implementation of socialism I can imagine. I truly hope that things work as well in other places as they do here. I'm humbled whenever I have the opportunity to personally witness the day to day performance of this system. Btw. my girlfriend is a social worker and my oldest friend is part of this system, so I get a lot of inside.

Sebastian Bohmann

Just like the US Army Corps of Engineers then maybe flying in using their own aircraft. At some point, outsourcing just becomes ridiculous 😊

Sebastian Bohmann

A Catholic official plus engineer entourage learjetting to something actually important like inspecting a dam that looks dangerously close to becoming wonky because of the recent rainfall is a totally different thing.

Sebastian Bohmann

It's just the specific case of a church that seems to mostly invest in non-charitable things that derails the concept of the Learjet as simply a necessary tool 🤣

Sebastian Bohmann

A Learjet is not necessarily a luxury item representing wealth. At some point, if it's more expensive to charter jets for quick flights all the time, an organization owning a Learjet can save money. Even a Franciscan or Jesuit order can own a Learjet because of the economics involved without it being a luxury or a personal wealth thing. As long as it's actually about the work that needs to be done and cannot be done over the Internet.

Sebastian Bohmann

Love that Mormonism got to be in Jojo part 7, I think that's hilarious

Booti_Boi69

You should have just made episode two of this on Mormonism

Booti_Boi69

The Dismal Swamp is a real place in Edison, NJ. I lived in it. https://www.njdismalswamp.org/

Man, I Got Nothing

A priest, a bishop and a rabbit go into a hospital to donate blood. The nurse at the desk asks them what blood group they are, the rabbit says "I think I'm a type-O"

"Graven images forbidden"

Allen

Wooooot PALMYRA represent!

AdivrSity

well there’s your religion

My grand mother was one of the child actors in that movie. She was in a childrens home and was not given a choice about starring in the film.

Zakethekid

Ex Mormon I am willing to answer any questions!

Have you folks seen "If Footmen Tire You, What Will Horses Do?" It's an hour-long Christian scare film in which a Baptist preacher warns that communism will destroy America unless people start going to church more. Most notably, it includes several "reenactments" of communist horrors that are beyond parody.

Monstromax

I have a lot of time for quakers, even Main Line PA establishment quakers, because they generally actually care about peace and love and shit and are normally one of the first mainstream-ish groups to sign on to social justice movements.

Broke: Philadelphia President Woke: Philadelphia Pope

I called it. Prepare: Connect, Plan, Organize, Collectiveize. https://tgdmb.com/viewtopic.php?p=540172#540172 https://www.leftvoice.org/precariousness-pandemic-and-class-relations-the-bourgeoisie-warns-of-uprisings-and-revolutions

Danika Hicks

I use podbean for non-youtube listening

obliteron

Is there a premium RSS feed? I would love to listen to these via pocketcasts cause mobile YouTube is screen killer

Alexander paul Halladay

Fun Fact about Russian Orthodox Monastaries, the monastaries were the first places in Russia where serfdom (tbf a proto version of serfdom) was implemented. They did this because monks didn't want to/couldn't work on the monastaries' lands and they needed them to stay on the lands so they could keep them productive IIRC.

GloomyCleric

So if I remember correctly “Baptists“ where a rebranding effort by a section of the “Anabaptist” movement

This show is taking place in 2058, I think this is Singapore that was used for filming?

TJ LaBelle

So in the newest Westworld they got on a train I couldn't help but notice that it seemed a bit dated for the time that WW is taking place in. https://imgur.com/g7yWRWd Here's the only shot I could get.

TJ LaBelle

Should a Baptist and Anabaptist contact one another they annihilate each other emitting a Presbyterian in the process, who is predestined to baptize people both in their infancy and later again as an adult after their confirmation.

Danika Hicks

An off-topic suggestion: Have you considered doing an episode on Thomas Heatherwick, Boris Johnson's favourite artist/designer/architect/real-life counterpart to Bloody Stupid Johnson? Apparently he has been responsible for a succession of engineering disasters including an extremely expensive pavement in Newcastle, an art installation in Manchester that had giant metal spikes falling off it, a London bus where the upper deck reached near-fatally high temperatures, and of course the ill-fated Garden Bridge.

There is a discord? What’s the Server address?

Michael Kalus

I feel it should be mentioned that the catholic terrorists who tried to blow up the king were mostly very posh and the ring leader was not guido fawkes, he was just basically hired help

Maz

1:05:XX - I have a related joke. A priest and a rabbi are sitting, eating lunch, when the priest asks, "Tell me, Rabbi, have you ever eaten ham? Be honest now." The rabbi blushes and admits, "Once, in college, I gave in to temptation, and had a ham sandwich. But tell me, Father, have you ever, ah, with a woman--?" The priest blushes in turn, and says "Once, before I was ordained, I did have a little-" They sit together in silence for a moment, then the rabbi smiles a little and says "It's better than ham, isn't it?"

Raymond Price

I thought it was No Man's Sky?

Ben

50fps video, who let the scott edit the video!

Mike Z.

Mormon cosmology sounds like Homestuck

A sudden absence of bees

Unacceptable to leave out Unitarianism.

fish are well known protestants

Andrew Clark

Literally the only good Calvinist was John Brown; also would love Pt 2 of everything you couldn't get to; my favorite corrupt Pope is Benedict IX; youngest Pope at age 20 and also only 3 time Pope

Zoe Tolbart

alice is working through them slowly

Well There's Your Problem

Is this going to get proper closed captions at some point? I'd like to share it with my mom (yes, I can pay extra for the privilege), and she is hard of hearing.

Elsie Hupp

Liam was downloading more unauthorized copies of windows, obviously

Kenneth Casperson

from a mate "bet the wee frees love the lockdown as the swings in the park are chained up seven days a week"

Al

When ferries (and the happened with flights) started up on Sundays to the outer Hebrides there were no protests on the day. Because that would have been to break Sabbath

Al

Ah, chruch of Scotland schisms (approx 1:24). This map will help: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Church_of_Scotland_(1843%E2%80%931900)#/media/File:Reformed_Scots_Church_Denominations.svg

Al

Go fuck yourself dude

Ever Gemma

This was amazing. I was laughing so much, if I ever have time, there are clips I'd love to animate. This seriously made my day. Can't wait for part 2. Also, Mcmansion Church episode??? Also, I am hyped about the next bonus ep! Just finished writing a paper on 'pedagogy of the oppressed'... "the goal of libertarian education is to turn students into containers of ideas and remove them from their proper contexts and to take away the ideas transformative power.."

Gnostic sex cults- the real engineering disaster.

Wow, that was really informative. Great job! You missed 7th Day Adventists though, a special brand of crazy as well. I love an apocalypse cult that after the day and hour of judgement passes with no event, they come out of their house and tell the press "You're Welcome, we prayed so hard Jesus changed his mind."

37:01: Technically Alice is right that you don't have to be a priest to be *elected* Pope; but if someone was elected who wasn't ordained, he would have to be consecrated a bishop immediately upon his election (see Canon 332.1 of the Code of Canon Law).

31:00: Liam's stance has plenty of historical precedent. I mean in most of the Hebrew Bible the only afterlife is Sheol, which barely qualifies as an afterlife. And Ecclesiastes pretty much straight-up says there's no meaningful afterlife. It's only in the Maccabean period (when Daniel and Maccabees were written) that we start seeing the idea of resurrection of the dead.

28:55: Indulgences still exist today! For example you can get a plenary indulgence by listening to the Pope's Urbi et Orbi blessing (in person or on TV/radio). And during the Jubilee Year of Mercy you could get one by going through a designated "Holy Door". But buying and selling them is emphatically not allowed nowadays.

25:45: Ah, the classic reference to homoousios v homoiousious ("Christianity was divided over a single iota")

As an atheist, this episode is pretty fun.

Rear Admiral JDogg

(Sorry for so much infodumping. I got really into early Christian history for a while last year.)

Another interesting thing is how much of the NT is forged. Only seven of the epistles of Paul were definitely actually written by Paul. 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy and Titus are definitely later forgeries (and incidentally contain some of the nastiest misogyny) and the other three are disputed. (I always feel like Paul gets a bad rap because some of the worst stuff in the Pauline canon was stuff he didn't actually write.) And of course Peter didn't write 1 and 2 Peter (nor did he write the various books attributed to him that didn't quite make it into the NT, like the Gospel of Peter and the Apocalypse of Peter).

There is some truly weird shit in the books that didn't quite make it into the New Testament. Both in the proto-orthodox books (like the Gospel of Peter, which features a walking talking cross) and in the Gnostic and other heterodox books. (Also so much anti-Semitism. I'm honestly really glad the Epistle of Barnabas didn't make it into the NT canon.)

Also... Old timey calvinism is basically some really sour old guy saying "You fucking suck! You're going to hell!" while the modern american version of calvinism seems to be some really smiley pastor lying to you about how awesome you are and how much money and heaven you're going to get. What the fuck happened? I've heard John Dolan talk about how all the crazy evangelican americans are essentially calvinists and in a way I can see it but at the surface level it just looks so weirly different. Did you have some reformation level event that nobody talks about or what?

Anders Olsson

That was like the angriest version of the golfing joke I've ever heard.

Spencer Moore

I just came here to have a good time and i'm feeling so attacked right now.

Maggie+Al

The thing about catholics being more conservative than protestants is very true here in Sweden. Here, if you're catholic, it's for one of two reasons: either it's because you're an immigrant from Chile who fled the Pinochet regime, or it's because you converted because you think Church of Sweden are a bunch of "politically correct SJW hippies"

Subspace Jet Witch

I know a name for the sitcom: "2 and a half popes" :)

Jonathan Delahaye

"I do not respect protestantism" - wtyp, probably

Twi

Oh, this should be delicious! I demand to know what Liam was doing on usenet!

Jason Milewski

Also they're all going to hell because they all reject the monothelite interpretation of Christianity.

Hedrigal

I don't know why after my comment it decided to turn Shia into something else.

Hedrigal

Orthodoxy is valid, but I feel like it gets this automatically included in the same way that Islam was mentioned without specifically saying that the hsieh are also valid. because as far as I know they still call themselves the exact same tying which is the Orthodox Catholic apostolic Church.

Hedrigal

I am such a nerd that 2 hours of shit talking religion sounds like a great idea.

NM

YESSS! I'm swedish and protestantism is my least favourite religion by a good margin. I would like to thank you for this content and also apologize for all the protestantism my country has exported over the centuries.

Anders Olsson

First pope of the York, PA Papacy.

I want an "Oh Gawwd" T-shirt, I'd buy two of those things.

I had thought until this episode that Alice being Muslim was just a running joke she had going XD

Clarp Blarpkiss

oh boy'

Jae ConcentratedTea

Martin Luther, the original reply guy

Erik Graham

Ahh perfect timing guys, I was getting strung out

SpookyPenguin

Fucking martin Luther.

Hedrigal

So many flavors of desert death cult, which do I choose? Which one is the equivalent of Team Rocket?

ViolentOrchid

Two goddamned hours? Where am I gonna find the time to listen to this foolishness??? Wait...

Sam Fulton