[CLOSED] The Harry Potter Book Club! - Your Notes for Chapters 8, 9 & 10 of the Prisoner of Azkaban!

The scenes in hogsmead are some of my favorite in the series

Annamarie schwirian

Snape constantly has to be coaxed, manipulated, cajoled into doing the right thing, and even then often in an immoral way. He's not an angel, or a hero. He's a deeply flawed human being who allowed his childhood to dictate his adulthood. A person who was against Voldemort solely because Voldemort hurt someone he liked. He had no qualms with Voldemort until that was a possibility. He did not disagree with Voldemort on moral or political grounds at all.

S1lm4r1l

Hi just joined for the book club. Excited to be here. Prisoner of Azkaban is my favorite early book and half blood prince is my favorite later book. This has always been one of my least favorite movies because they leave so much out which at least to me make a lot of things kind of confusing if you hadn't read the book before seeing it. and you don't get as much of that really satisfying moment when everything fully clicks together from the movie like you do from the book. And all the quidditch in the movie that you get in the books. Ps you don't need to read my comment in the video just thought I would pop in and support a bit of the content creation. Keep up the great work!

Sorry Hawwah, but your own citations speak against your arguments: "a villain is often defined by their acts of selfishness, evilness, arrogance, cruelty, and cunning, displaying immoral behavior that can oppose or pervert justice." While Snapes cunning is mostly used for the "good" side, he clearly acts arrogant and cruel against Harry, Hermione and Neville (and probably others that we don't know about, since we only see the world through Harry's eyes). And this very behaviour against them is often opposing or perverting justice. He hates Harry for no reason other than being James' son. In at least one situation he destroys the potion Harry handed in on purpose and let's him fail the assignment. That's perverted justice right there. He's certainly not THE villain of the Harry Potter saga, but he's enough of a villain to be a convincing red herring in the first and sixth book. And as the others already mentioned, there are lots of other negative terms perfectly fitting his character. He may have some streaks of heroism, but they are only inspired by his failed love for Lily and cannot hide away the rest of his character.

Lukas

I try not to respond to these about Snape anymore but since we’re throwing out definitions, here is the Miriam Webster dictionary definition of bully: a blustering, browbeating person especially : one who is habitually cruel, insulting, or threatening to others who are weaker, smaller, or in some way vulnerable Emphasis on “one who is habitually cruel, insulting, or threatening to others who are weaker, smaller, or in some way vulnerable”. This also is Snape to a t. He set the tone for his relationship with Harry in that first potions lesson which Noam alluded to in his comment by singling him out for no apparent reason. He also very did not sacrifice everything because it was the right thing, he did it because of his guilt over Lily.

Jacqueline Chaiton

Let's consult Wikipedia again. "A hero (feminine: heroine) is a real person or a main fictional character who, in the face of danger, combats adversity through feats of ingenuity, courage, or strength. (...) The original hero type of classical epics did such things for the sake of glory and honor. Post-classical and modern heroes, on the other hand, perform great deeds or selfless acts for the common good instead of the classical goal of wealth, pride, and fame." (Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero) *PERFORMS GREAT DEEDS OR SELFLESS ACTS FOR THE COMMON GOOD.* This describes Severus Snape to a t. He is a hero, whether his haters like it or not. Johanna, I am really sorry hearing about your grandfather. However, I don't see what he has to do with Professor Snape. A pedophile is someone who selfishly hurts children for his own personal gain. That's literally the opposite of the character of Professor Snape. He never hurt a child - or anyone else for that matter. On the contrary - he was the teacher most concerned with the safety of his students, he repeatedly put his own life at risk to protect them and in the end sacrificed everything, including his own reputation, to keep Hogwarts students safe during Voldemort's rule of terror. That's the exact opposite of selfish. He sacrificed everything and gained nothing, and he did it simply because it was the right thing to do. If you're comparing him to someone who purposefully sacrifices others for his own selfish interests, you're being dishonest.

Hawwah

I like the chapters where we get to see more of the Wizarding World itself...like all the creatures that Lupin brings in for DADA class or the amazing things that you can buy in Hogsmeade especially the sweets at Honeydukes. Most of them sound delicious. However im not sure if all of them are vegan. I could also imagine that you really liked the chapter "Grim Defeat" because of Hufflepuffs glorious victory at Quidditch. ;) Also you surely did notice that Cedric Diggory already gets mentioned here. As always...Keep up the great work, Veggie and Greetings from Germany.

Fiur

You can be a “hero” and still be a terrible person. My grandfather was a war hero. Saved a bunch of lives in multiple wars. He was also a pedo. I always think of him when people call Snape a hero. Sure, Voldemort wouldn’t have been defeated without him, but he was still an absolute POS.

Johanna Wilson

Agree that he's not a villain, but he's also not a hero, he being a bully doesn't mean villain. That's one of my favorit things about him, despite not liking him as a person, he 's one of the most profound characters.

Clair C

@itsadancething Professor Snape told Hermione not to speak out of turn - repeatedly. She ignored him and continued talking anyway. That's disrespectful and rude.

Hawwah

Professor Snape is not a villain. According to Wikipedia: "Random House Unabridged Dictionary defines such a character as "a cruelly malicious person who is involved in or devoted to wickedness or crime; scoundrel; or a character in a play, novel, or the like, who constitutes an important evil agency in the plot". The antonym of a villain is a hero. The villain's structural purpose is to serve as the opposition of the hero character and their motives or evil actions drive a plot along. In contrast to the hero, who is defined by feats of ingenuity and bravery and the pursuit of justice and the greater good, a villain is often defined by their acts of selfishness, evilness, arrogance, cruelty, and cunning, displaying immoral behavior that can oppose or pervert justice." As you can clearly see, this definition doesn't describe Severus Snape at all. It's actually the exact opposite of who Severus Snape is and what his purpose in the story is. Severus Snape is one of the heroes of the Harry Potter saga - not because "we enjoy him as a character" (what a strawman argument!) - but because he is "defined by feats of ingenuity and bravery and the pursuit of justice", which is a characteristic of a hero, as seen in the definition above.

Hawwah

Thanks! Ya, Dumbledore definitely makes some interesting choices. Personally I think he is so focused on the greater good that he sometimes forgets he's also supposed to be running a school. Nothing wrong with loving villain as long as you can recognize that just because you enjoy them as a character doesn't make them a hero.

NOam Gold-Utting

welcome! just be adding my few pieces (and not going into this to far either) - Dumbledore for me is also very (well how to put it...) special. I mean - come on. You hire a Gilderoy Lockhart? You set up security measures to the philosophers stone that cna be breached by first years? I do not even know where to begin with him. So yeah, as said, welcome! I h´think we might share some ideas about Snape (and I can say that and still state he is my favorite character)

Dara Jeeling

Just joined the Patreon and wanted wanted to add my thoughts to the whole Snape situation. I think a lot of people lose sight of the power differential at play here. Snape is an adult wizard who is a teacher and head of one of the Hogwarts houses. Harry and Co are children who are just wanting to learn his subject. Imagine knowing next to nothing about a world and all of a sudden one of your teachers is asking you questions, purposefully trying to trip you up and get you to make a mistake, is insulting you and your dead father and its a known thing that they are biased and unfairly assign punishments based on your house. That person might be a tragic figure who has their reasons, but to children they are just an adult who is being mean and abusive. I think some people try to justify Snape's abuse because the are uncomfortable liking the villain. Personally I've always felt that allowing Snape to remain a teacher seriously calls Dumbledore's judgement as headmaster into question. I could mention more but I won't spoil. I'll continue to comment on the horribleness that is Snape as we go.

NOam Gold-Utting

Maybe I'm missing something, but I never thought of Hermione as being rude in this scene. She was trying to answer his questions and each time started with, "please sir." That always seemed respectful to me .

itsanursething

You get the respect you give. Snape decided that arguing with his students would be a better usage of the start of the lesson than actually finding out what they already knew and had covered. Hermione volunteered this information to help Snape out. She was rude, but constructively so. After that, Snape decided to belittle the students for their work, criticise Lupin's teaching and have them copy out notes from the textbooks. 10/10 best teacher ever.

S1lm4r1l

Hi Veggie, till now I've been a silent viewer, but I really love your Idea of the Book Club and just couldn't resist joining you on this journey! One of my favourite things in these books have always been the Quidditch Matches as I felt like I could really feel the excitement when reading, but maybe this was just due to me being pretty young when I first read them. From the 3rd Film onwards, we don't really get a lot of Quidditch Scenes which I find is a pity as they could've covered some of the best moments in these books, one of which we'll get to see in a couple Chapters. I also feel like Quidditch was very poorly done until now, resolving in people not understanding that the snitch doesn't just win the game, but gives 150 Points or that there are indeed many rules, but the Films just don't feel like caring about them and just end up throwing people into the towers on the sides! Something as dangerous as this would never have happened in the books! PS: While watching your Book reviews I find myself thinking on the regular "If only he knew!". Many Questions or theories you have will be answered in the upcoming books, but I think most people won't give you clear answers yet because it would spoil some things. Love your Reactions! Greetings from Germany!

Bennet

Hey Garry! This is such an interesting piece of information to me as an English learner. I indeed wasn't aware of the slight difference in meaning. I stand corrected and take my previous comment back. I'm glad I learned something new.

Hawwah

“Dread” has a slightly different meaning than simply anxiety. It implies that you are fearful about something that you *know*is going to happen. For example, you can be “dreading” going to an in interview, or “dread” having to have a difficult conversation with someone. In this case, lavender did not know that Binky was going to die, and she had no reason to suspect that he was going to die, because he was not old. His death actually came as quite a shock. Therefore she was not dreading Binky dying.

Garry (Not Jerry)

I really wish these details were included in the books. I'm not a fan of a one million snippets of information scattered all over the place.

Hawwah

Professor Snape was very lenient with Hermione. She was extremely disrespectful to him and continued talking out of turn even when he told her repeatedly not to do that. It's also worth noting that when Neville behaves in class, he has absolutely zero problems with Professor Snape.

Hawwah

"Lavender can’t have been dreading it because she didn’t expect him to die" That's not how fear works. Fear is often irrational. Lots of people are afraid of flying, myself included, even though it's widely known that flying is statistically much safer than other means of transport. When these people are boarding a plane, are they *expecting* to die? Of course not, they wouln't board it in the first place if that was the case. But that doesn't stop them from feeling anxious during the flight.

Hawwah

Hey Veggie, loving the book club! One thing I've never liked that was changed in the movies is the three broomsticks scene, I understand they didn't have the set yet and probably wouldn't want to spend the money for one scene, but why would a pub close itself to children on one of the 3 or 4 weekends that children are in town? You'd think Hogwarts visits would be profitable, especially that close to Christmas. Also, not to start _that_ conversation again, but Snape is pretty mean to Hermione, too, it's not just Neville who he bullies, just my two cents! Anyway, can't wait to see how you feel about future scenes, the changes between book and movie truly do start in this book!

Stephanie

I think Hermione is just thinking logically with regards to Scabber's and Lavender's pet. Since she always relies on logic, she is tactless sometimes. Makes sense given her character but she was being really insensitive. This is what JKR said about Fred & George and the map. It's part of a mugglenet interview: MA: How did they figure out how to work the map, the exact word combination? Is that just a lot of luck— JKR: Or, the map helped. MA: Yep, yeah. You can see them sort of answering and joking with each other. JKR: And the map flickering into life here and there when they got closer and closer, and finally they hit upon the exact right word combination and it just erupts. And Fred-george find the map on a drawer marked "Confiscated and Highly Dangerous". So they of course choose to take it and start messing with it. I think it also makes sense since the map also gave instructions to Harry using a speech bubble on how to use the hidden entrance. I really love the concept of the Fidelius charm. How you can hide a secret within a person and no one but that person can choose to confide in others. Also, how funny to hear that James and Sirius were bigger trouble makers than Fred and George.

Preetam Ozarde

Hey Veggie, since i am kind of late to the party again, i am not gonna write that much! :D I love the little insight about Hogsmeade from Hermione and Ron after Harry leaves Lupin. That they have seen some kind of ogre makes it clear that, hogsmeade it is not a thing that belongs to hogwarts, but is a little town and meeting point for many magical beings. Also one of my favorite sentences from one of my favourite characters, Fred after Gryffindors defeat: "Still in the showers," said Fred. "We think he's trying to drown himself.". I know i should not laugh, but i did. Poor Oliver.

Jonas (Methanoutput)

Funfact: reading a Hufflepuff house edition (the philosopher stone), we learn that the founder of Hogsmeade village, Hengist of Woodcroft, was a Hufflepuff too. 💛🖤💛🖤

Clair C

RIP Binky, Lavender’s pet rabbit. Hermione made a good point - saying that Lavender can’t have been dreading it because she didn’t expect him to die. However - she WAS dreading something happening on this day. Lavender didn’t know what professor Trelawney’s prophecy was referring to, but she was dreading whatever it was! So technically, her prediction was right!

Garry (Not Jerry)