Episode 514 - The Picture of Dorian Gray - Part 1

I sometimes like to listen to audiobooks and read along with them. I’ve always been a fan of Stephen Fry (going back to Blackadder) and knew he was a fan and champion of Wilde’s work. So I downloaded his audiobook version but was disappointed to find that it was an abridged version. Does anyone know if he ever did an unabridged version? If so, where can I find it?

This is my first time rereading Dorian Gray since I was like 15-16. It seems CRAZY to me how much I actually took Lord Henry's words as being legitimate worldviews and actually assumed some of them as my own. Even when the character and the whole plot of the book says otherwise he still convinced me that the stuff he says is true. I guess it really takes some maturity to be able to see through all of that.

Tom Král

Jamie, you are fantastic! I’ve listened to the first two episodes and you’re adding so much humour and depth. PS I love Breeders. PS Chris and Chad are the wind beneath my wings. Rach

Rachel Lackey

The unpacking of the introduction had me laughing on the commute to work as I imagined Mr. Wilde with a Yankees cap on - his contradictory statements almost bordering on Yogisms, minus the pearl of wisdom.

Yes. This is absolutely correct.

I think I understand Wilde's preface slightly differently. He is saying art is useless in that it lacks a practical application or strict utility. But I don't think he is saying art is pointless. He assigns art a very specific purpose, which is to be beautiful, or pleasing. In this way I think he thinks art is very important, just that any art with an ulterior motive or utility is lesser. Also sidebar, when are you guys gonna get to Robert Aickman?

Ben Atkinson

Just for a moment, the stars were right

Scott Kenney

Your Google-Fu is not at fault, Elisheba - unfortunately the film is long lost :-(

I quite like that it's Dorian musing out loud about his portrait not aging that quietly sets things in motion - I think that especially feels Lovecraftian, because of the sheer cruel randomness of it.

Stewart Huntsman

My google fu is failing me, does anyone know where I can pirate or purchase the 1918 Dorian Gray with Bela Lugosi?

I'm so glad you're doing this one! When I discovered it back in high school, this novel fascinated me so much that I ended up staging a mini-play based on it with some colleagues for our literature class. It was all super metaphorical and obfuscated and not as smart as we thought, in retrospect, but I ended up having a soft spot for Dorian Gray ever since.

Liana

Ah, a story in which an overly perceptive artist paints a portrait that reveals the horrible secrets of its subject, leading to murder ... Wait, what do you mean we're not revisiting "Medusa's Coil"? (You even name-dropped Dorian Gray about 21 minutes into episode 73!)

Just a passing comment - I drew to Sean Branney's attention after an episode of Voluminous on a letter to Donald Wandrei, where Lovecraft made a pun linking Wandrei's name to Charles Maturin's novel Melmoth the Wanderer, that Maturin was Wilde's great-uncle by marriage. The influence on Wilde was obviously strong - after his release from gaol, Wilde lived under the name Sebastian Melmoth in Paris (name taken from the saint and the fictional character). Relevance? Probably none to this series of podcasts, but a double Lovecraft link both Maturin and Wilde are commented on by Lovecraft.

Wow....Chad’s short monologue about unintentionally ending up places you wouldn’t have consciously chosen was perfect. But also, unfortunately, it was all too relatable. And I’m only 28 lol....

Devin Trim

They can be purchased for money! I have one and I have had many a good vapour upon it. #pretentiousvictorianhack

Boy oh boy now I want a fainting couch!

I’ve been waiting for you guys to cover Dorian Gray, as it’s the only other Wilde story that fits broadly within weird fiction outside of the Canterville Ghost. It definitely also fits the caution you have raised in the past about not having more than one supernatural occurrence in a story; the one supernatural element is the transference of age and sin to the painting. The rest of the story is a normal examination of morality and integrity (as well as repressed sexuality and classism). You haven’t gotten to Dorian’s many transgressions yet, but I thought it would be worth noting that there is a throughline that connects Dorian Gray to Ethan Brand in my mind. Hawthorne was focused on trying to understand if there was a level of evil depravity that could be an unpardonable sin. To him, the corruption of a woman through what amounts to psychological torture is such a transgression. In Dorian Gray, this is reflected both by Dorian’s self-corruption through his fixation of Lord Henry’s musings and, later, his courting & rejection of Sibyl Vane. Her corruption in many respects is the same as Ethan Brand’s unpardonable sin. Both Gray and Brand suffer for their selfishness and their hubris. Looking forward to the rest of the coverage!

Ben A

I second this! It would be interesting to hear your take on the film adaptations. Angela Lansbury's portrayal of Sibyl Vane in the 1946 version is always heartbreaking, given her embodiment of the same drives that motivate Dorian--she too wants to rise out of her class and explore parts of society previously verboten--but that are tragically undone by Dorian.

Ben A

The thing I can't stop thinking about is if Greig is on Patreon and supports the show. Because there would be a point where he'd put on the ep, hear his voice, then hear Chad start talking about being a boardwalk caricature artist. Not only did he have to give all those refunds, but he paid to hear having his spot blown up on a podcast.

One of my favorite moments from "Married With Children" is a scene in which Bud stares narrow-eyed at Kelly after she makes a dumb comment and says, "Once your looks go... your dead!"... I wonder now if this was a reference by the writer of Lord Henry to Dorian commenting on how he only has his looks...

Wulf Mungus

So glad you all are covering this and Jamie was great. I found this copy of The Picture of Dorian Grey on my Dad's book shelf when I was like 12. I was drawn in by Wilde's look -- I thought he looked cool and kind of how I wanted to be. My Dad encouraged me to read it after a weird exchange (My Dad: "You should know that he was gay." Me: "Oh, ok." My Dad: "But you should read it." Me: "Oh, OK." haha I think he was working out getting past a latent generational homophobia in real time). I didn't read the book for real until I was 14 or 15. By this point I had connected the dots between Morrissey/The Smiths and Wilde. Isn't it funny when you are drawn to art and find the inevitable connecting points between the music/movies/paintings and their creators. Morrissey is another who is rather Lord Henry-like in his dickishness, but he really meant a lot to me as a young man. Like Morrissey, I got really into reading and quoting Wilde...in rural Central, Pennsylvania. Yeah, it went great. And, come on, There is a Light is one of the greatest songs of all-time! You can't just off-handedly diss it and then casually mention nu-metal in a knowing way and be taken seriously. ; )

Yesssssss. Thank you guys so much for this. I was gonna pay for a higher subscription just to request this book (been planning on doing that for years and was finally gonna take the dive) but then pandemic hit and I still had to pay for uni. My favorite book. Nothing constructive here, just my extreme appreciation. Seeing this made my week, possibly month.

Evan

Ooh, DJ Flangmeister! Nice.

Steve

I forgot to include above a suggestion to cover as a bonus content or wrap-up ep the film adaptations of the story, at least the 1946 version (the only one I’ve seen). I certainly wouldn’t expect you to do all 8 listed on Wikipedia, though the 1918 Hungarian version with Bela Lugosi as Lord Henry sounds intriguing.

While I love learning hearing about weird writers I haven’t heard of before, I am truly delighted that you’re covering someone, who after Lovecraft and Howard, I probably have read and re-read most often in my life (or at least in an earlier time when I had time for things like reading). Of course, all the profs at college would be horrified (but not surprised) to know that those were my top three. I would always tell them that Billy Shakes was number 4 to assuage them a bit. Lie, he’s number 6 after Clarke and Barker. What first sprang to mind when you guys were discussing the preface was how my high school English AP teacher and the prof in college freshman courses both had us debating the “meanings” of all those profundities, letting us little lit nerds go on and on about the significance of this aphorism or that until they could jazz us with that line “but all art is meaningless.” I think they stared at us expecting applause or confetti for blowing our little minds. I’ll also add what another prof at college said. He was a student of John Crowe Ransom (the father of New Criticism – reading a literary or other artistic work without any reference to the artist or the environment in which it was produced – or probably more famously known as the reason generations of high school students had to learn what the heck transmogrifying meant before D&D existed). He argued that we are to consider Dorian’s mental and intellectual state when he first appears. That instead of a blank slate, the most commonly accepted interpretation, he is instead a product of a Church of England Victorian morals upbringing, That he is obviously attracted to Lord Henry and all that he is espousing from the get-go can only be read as a criticism of any socio-religious structure as man’s natural state is amoral. This professor was my favorite, but when he started going on like this I would obnoxiously just toss back that meaningless art line as he was more often than not making my head hurt. That this also seemed to contradict the whole “close reading” thing which my prof would explain how it didn’t just brought more brain pain. Then I dash out of his office to head back to Cimmeria. Oh and lovely to hear Jamie’s input, but thanks for now making me feel like I have to add another show to the mountain of TV I haven’t seen. My boyfriend loves Skins, but I just couldn’t handle watching grubby teens being grubby. But Nicholas Hoult being Machiavellian? Sign me up, I guess. Who needs sleep.

I’m so glad you’ve gotten around to this one! I still think that this novel contains some of the creepiest collection of scenes in any novel I’ve read! Looking forward to your coverage!

I'm so glad you got into this one, gents! There was a ton of thoughtful and thought-provoking stuff in this episode. Clearly, Wilde is having a lot of fun in that introduction. The winks, nods, nudges, and ironic faux flatulence is all there behind a delicious crunch-wrap of high-minded intellectualism. I do so love the early story Dorian. So sweet, lovely, and desperate for some worldly corruption. He'd be a big hit at Burning Man, love every minute of it, and wonder later just how many of his vices could be traced back to burn week.

I had a feeling it would be Greig! Y'all should make a mockumentary about him utilizing all of Chad's outrageous claims. Dorian Gray is one of my favorite books. There are so many lines from it that stand on their own as classic Wilde witticisms, it's the only book I stopped reading every few pages to write down a quote.

For whatever reason I never got around to reading Dorian Gray. Those excerpts from the preface are fascinating. Am going to incorporate them into my Introduction to Lit lecture next year. First slide will, however, be "Welcome to this useless discussion we're about to have"- C Lackey