Episode 503 - The Veldt

My theory on this is that the parents are probably killed already and that the current ones are projections of the room.

I was somewhat underwhelmed by this story, but that could be that these days the theme of "Maybe technology... is BAD?!?" has been turned up to eleven, while we cheerfully trade away our privacy regardless. I think my other problem is that it was too ambiguous, in a way that felt more the result of poor explanation, rather than clever authorial foresight.

Stewart Huntsman

The story always reminded me of Padgett's Mimsy were the Borogroves and Bradbury's own Zero Hour. The overarching theme is of children doing things that their parents don't expect, because of their limited adult perspective.

Aaron Gullison

The children telling McClean "They'll be here directly" when he asks them about where their parents are made me think that perhaps the parents in the story weren't the real parents, but rather holographic characters created as a means for the children to take out their pent-up anger at having parents who are out of touch with their children. The bloodied scarf, the chewed-up wallet with blood, and the screams could be mere projections brought on by the children's imagination. In the meantime, the actual parents are packing up for their vacation unaware that their children are having another set of holographic versions of them being slaughtered by lions. This is just a theory, but that's what I love about Ray Bradbury's stories: they have many different level that you could read them on.

Michael Littlefield

Belated congratulations, Chad and Heather!

Jeremy Impson

PARENT: So, this holographic nursery will keep the kids entertained all day? HOLOGRAPHIC NURSERY SALESMAN: Yes - but I should warn you, there is a risk that it may manifest your children’s unconscious desires as holographic beasts that might become real and eat you. PARENT: We’ve been in lockdown with the kids for three months, I’ll take my chances.

I suppose I could launch into some theory about how Bradbury's stories are all The Veldt leaving space for reader's imagination. But so many have done a better job of that. Instead, I have what I think is the insight of all insights... All of Ray Bradbury stories should be done as Pixar movies. Very sinister Pixar movies.

Jimmy Mac

Have you seen Ben Bailey’s stand up talking about becoming an accidental ornithologist. If you haven’t, take the time. It is hilarious!!

I also got a really strong ‘ghost story’ vibe from the ending, and thought perhaps the children were indulging in a cycle of killing their parents, who would then be recreated by the nursery, unaware of what happened to the previous versions of themselves. This is why we never see what the lions are eating to begin with - it is the bodies of the previous parents, whose wallet and scarf are later discovered. When the children explain that their parents will be along soon, they are not trying to trap the man, but are in fact just waiting for the nursery to make them new parents, who they will tolerate, until they too try to switch off the technology. Perhaps a faint unconscious knowledge of this cycle is why they are so uncomfortable about the nursery and it’s veldt?

Chad, quit EVERYTHING and become an ornithologist. That bird call stirred something within myself, as well as the geese I was chasing off my fence.

Poor sweet Chris, his science brain always has such a hard time with Bradbury. You need to stop struggling, Chris. Bradbury is always 1/3 reality, 1/3 magic, and 1/3 dream state. Also, little kids are tiny selfish monsters with no empathy. Unless it is based on Ray's own childhood. Then it is a golden endless dream. Ray just doesn't do hard sci-fi. Maybe you guys should get drunk for the next Bradbury story. I also loved that Chad brought up The Murderer. I read it as a kid in the 80's, and reread it a few years ago. It was astonishingly prescient. I know I wish I had the willpower to murder my phone.

Tara Murphy

Completely off topic from the episode, but you guys should try doing a podcast episode with Aaron Mahnke from the podcast LORE, and discuss some of the real life connections to some of the works you’ve covered

Wheeee... Five tries and it finally posted correctly :)

*sigh* Patreon seems determined to frustrate me today, but again, here's a link to the techno song "The Veldt", a tribute to both the original story and Ray Bradbury. It's a favorite of mine and both the lyrics and the video tell the story quite effectively: https://youtu.be/xvtNS6hbVy4

I think I speak for the whole UK when I say that Africa is well known as a place with no rain, rivers or snow anywhere. Band Aid wouldn't lie to us. Yes, yes, they have jungles, mountains and the Nile, but we don't talk about those except in children's books where lions are the kings of jungles and hang out with tigers.

I might have missed it but is the death of the parents ever explicitly stated or just implied? Are they dead or could they have left the house and their psychotic children to start again somewhere else? Perhaps the children were only trying to take control with fear, creating an atmosphere through suggestions of death and then eventually the parents see, hear and smell the simulation of themselves being eaten by lions, but are overcome by it and run away. Perhaps the children didn't know it would effect them so much and really do expect the parents to return eventually. Kids can be cruel but are rarely calculating. If I did miss it and they are dead, none of that works of course. If they are dead I have the same issues as Chris about the tech, but I think Chad has the solution in the generational gap in understanding tech. My feeling is Bradbury didn't want to spell out all the dangers but to suggest unforeseeable dangers only time and familiarity will reveal. Tech is always surprising us with a new use for something. The dangers are often not apparent until too late. I think he's saying to be careful what you bring into your home because it might sound harmless in the brochure but harmful properties will emerge because humans will always find ways to cause harm to themselves and others. I don't know if I agree with that but I can see why he never wrote for Star Trek.

I also liked Chris's conclusion that the parents weren't real. I'm not sure if that's what Bradbury intended, but it's the most interesting possible version of the story. I love Bradbury, but I also sometimes find myself rolling my eyes a bit at his distrust of technology. I wonder what record player hurt him. I also think that while it's horrible to imagine your own children feeding you to the lions.... Who among us hasn't occasionally, maybe in our early teens, imagined that it might be an enjoyable thing to do to our parents? We grow out of that of course, and never really meant it in the first place, but I think for children there's sometimes something a bit thrilling to the idea.

Forgot to add that I enjoyed this story!

I grew up in Iowa. It IS the opposite of stimulus.! But in hind sight growing up on a farm where even the kids have to help with the work, gave me a very good work ethic. More toward the story, I really like Chris’ idea of the fact the parents where not real, which could explain some of the actions or inactions. Whether they are or not, what kid hasn’t been so mad at their parents to wish them dead (in a childish manner). But, these children haven’t been taught right from wrong & think it’s normal to off your parents! It’s all up in the air for interpretation.

Thanks for doing this one, and for mentioning "The Murderer". I reread that one not too long ago, and it was kind of scary how prescient it was. With regards to the whole question of what exactly happened, Bradbury was on the 'lighter' side of sci-fi so I took it as a bit of eldritch horror making its way into a future world. He did a similar mix of sci-fi and horror in "Pillar of Fire", which would be a good candidate for a future episode.

Scott Morrison

Interesting discussion of what seem like all the key points! May I lower the tone by simply adding that the story is somewhat reminiscent of a sequence in the British portmanteau horror film Tales That Witness Madness (1973). It might be that the sequence was inspired by the story, of course. As summarised by Wikipedia: "In 'Mr. Tiger', Paul is the sensitive and introverted young son of constantly bickering parents Sam and Fay Patterson. Amid the unhappy domestic situation he befriends an "imaginary" tiger." If you've read this far, I am sure you can imagine what happens next! So, in Bradbury's story the problem stems from over-indulgent (and subsequently redundant) parents creating spoilt children; in TTWM from neglectful, belligerent parents. Bradbury's 'nursery' – purchased for an "absurdly low price" – is also clearly a near-relative of the HAL 9000 from '2001: A Space Odyssey', Proteus IV from 'Demon Seed', Skynet from 'The Terminator' and many, many more. The message of all these seems to be that humanity's technological hubris will over-reach itself, creating devices that scorn their creator. Similarly, the nursery is a 'cursed object', possession of which dooms the owner – much like the haunted mirrors, suits, plants and penny-farthing bicycles that abound in British portmanteau horror movies. (PS: Well done Chris and Chad for maintaining an uninterrupted supply of podcasts during lockdown. Much appreciated!) PPS: After thinking about British portmanteau horror movies of the 1960s and 1970s (mostly produced by Amicus), I suddenly remembered that one of the best-known, ‘Dr Terror’s House of Horrors’ (1965), contains that Holy Grail of the podcast: the ghost of a werewolf. The summary of the relevant sequence as given on Wikipedia (Ah, Wikipedia, my friend!), minus spoilers, is: “Architect Jim Dawson returns to his old family home on a Scottish isle to make renovations for the new owner, Mrs. Biddulph. Biddulph explains she bought the secluded house to help her recover from the death of her husband. Dawson finds the coffin of Count Cosmo Valdemar behind a fake wall in the cellar. Valdemar, the original owner of the house, was killed in a conflict with the Dawson family centuries ago. Local legend states that Valdemar would reclaim his former home and take revenge on the current owner."

Yes, the bent tree of Africa! I lived in Tanzania for awhile but never found that exactly one tree that is in front of a sunset.

I'm glad you brought up the Peter and Wendy thing, it couldn't have been coincidence. My take on my first read was tthat the smart home had killed the parents to protect itself and to continue to for care for the children. Now I wonder if Chris is right. Do the parents leave the house at any point?

Your Alf comments reminded me of the Black Mirror episode The Waldo Moment when a virtual puppet ends up in politics and wins an election.

I had to read this story many times in various English classes throughout Middle and High School, and what I've always taken away from it is that the room - not unlike Star Trek's holodeck - combined "real", physical things created by the room with advanced virtual reality. I imagined the familiar-sounding screams were in fact those of the parents themselves, or simulated versions of them. To go along with the concept of children often wishing death upon others without knowing it, I feel Bradbury may have been implying that the children were not only spoiled with technology in the more conventional sense, but that it had also exposed them to the kind of death endemic to wild places like the Veldt and "spoiled" their understanding of death. Though admittedly I have not read it in a long time, it's always struck me of a story about obsession and the callousness that technology, being a tool, has the potential to amplify. While Bradbury is one of (if not my most) favorite authors, I feel like some of his stories like this (and There Will Come Soft Rains, both of which I had to read in school) fall pretty flat. Awesome show, though - I would love to see more from The Martian Chronicles or The Illustrated Man in the future!

Now I am wondering if I am just a dark hearted soul. I assumed that the children had killed their parents. Of course the virtual lions couldn't do the job. It has to be the kids. And it's clear (to me) that the kids were practicing. What were they killing in there? Neighborhood pets, perhaps? Learning. Using parental totems - the scarf and wallet - as foci around which they engaged in some bloodletting whilst imagining killing human folk. I do hope I'm not the only one who thought this way.

Knowing the guy who had us all dreaming of life on Mars wouldn't drive a car and hated TV is one of those "the artist is not their art" kind of teachable moments, isn't it?

Gotta say, this tale was kinda meh for me. There's a wealth of Horror potential in tech, but the damnedest thing is you have to *understand* it to know what those horrors are and how to execute them. This vague "the newfangled stuff is not what I am used to and that's what makes it bad" stuff just doesn't land--gimme a story about the increasing ubiquity of facial recognition quietly turning the world into a police state, or the increasing innaccessibility some people have in an ultra-automated world whose metrics and sensors just *happened* to be calibrated by and to White silicon valley techheads and thus don't actually register POC as...well, people. Technology is just a tool, which means it can be used for good or ill. And in a world dominated by capitalist, white supremacist, and imperialist systems there are countless novel and grotesque ways it *will* be used for ill--intentionally or not. Though truth be told, in adaptation I could find this particular tale more interesting. Especially if Chris' idea were integrated. It was doubtlessly not what Bradbury intended, but even if he were still physically alive Death Of The Author would still hold true. If the parents were fabrications--imitations of deceased parents, say--it could be a tale about childhood loss, and grief, and an inability to let go. Using a VR tool to try to comfort children with realistic simulacra of their dead parents seems both like a bad idea, *and* like an idea someone might try. And that could make the situation so much worse. After all, it might prevent closure--and what if, among more traditional emotions, the children harbored a bit of resentment toward their parents that was never resolved when they were alive? Faced with a convincing imitation--but one they still *knew* was just an imitation--such resentment might hook on and begin to grow, until it eclipses the other feelings the children might have felt toward their parents, irreversably tainting their memories of them. But that's just an alternate story idea I worked through as I typed it. This tale was just weak for me. I'd call Bradbury a Luddite, but that's innaccurate--the Luddites were a worker's rights group, they didn't actually hate technology. It's just one of those nasty cases of colloquializing obfuscating the actual context and meaning of a thing.

Mandy Reznor (She_It)

Yeah, Bradbury has been hit-or-miss for me so far. A lot of it has been middling, like this, but on the other hand he also wrote "The Foghorn."

Mandy Reznor (She_It)

I was thrilled when you mentioned Bradbury's Unplug Manifesto, "The Murderer," which is a personal favorite. Turning back to "The Veldt," did you know it inspired the Deadmau5 song of the same name?

Always good to get a Bradbury Story. Alongside his predictions about cell phones and virtual reality, Bradbury described machine learning with a really elegant analogy in “I Sing the Body Electric.” That story also made a great Twilight Zone episode, because a story about an Android grandmother needs a sitcom soundtrack.

This doesn't really work for me. But then I'm no fan of Bradbury.

Steve

What I took away from this story is that children are evil. Get them before they get you.

Alf For President 2020!!!!!!

OK - a few thoughts. First, the kids are named Peter and Wendy. Seriously - that *has* to be a Peter Pan reference, right? The name Wendy was quite uncommon until the book Peter Pan popularized it. So that implies a reference about children not wanting to grow up and to indulge their selfish piratical tendencies. Second, this recalls a lengthy argument I and my cousin got into in high school. I argued that Bradbury was my favorite SciFi writer. She argued that he's disqualified from the category because all of his SciFi is fantasy. (This is now the Star Wars vs Star Trek battlezone, I guess.) After about six years, I decided she was right. I re-read a bunch of both and then cogitated on it, and conveyed my conversion at a family reunion. Decades later it still seems right. YMMV. Third, I agree that the magical thing we're supposed to allow in this story isn't the tech, it's the blurring of the lines between the technical and the magical. I do like Chris' thought-provoking idea that the parents might not exist at all. But that is probably a bridge too far using a strictly textual analysis, since nothing implies in the story that the parents (ostensibly the protagonists, right?) are not actually real people within the story? But I think Bradbury likes the emotional punch and the horror more than he cares about any plausible mechanism by which the things in the walls could come and eat the parents. There is an interesting reversal of the main childhood fear of the dark and unknown thing in the closet though, isn't there? In the closet the imagination creates unknown dread and horror. Here, the parents are consumed in brightest day by quite speakable horrors which are crisp and clear and deadly. The thing they can't see isn't the virtual-turned-real lions, but their real-but-ignored kids. Food for thought... And I guess that's what happened to the parents in fact. They became food for thought.

And ALF. Yes.

Also Lord Marduk is SO RIGHT

Aw Jeez, boys. Can we call you that? That's what we call you: THE BOYS. You cheery fuckers have kept us in content for YEARS. But, boys, this was a bit too close to home today. 13yo (y'know, autistic, super-smart, plausible) cleaned out our current account with effing robux. Man it's been a day. We are totally with the smarthouse-smashing dude. We did ok in the end, managed the financial sitch through my lovely in-laws and didn't lose it completely, long-ass day of not freaking out and we're all able to cope. But all Bradbury's alienation anxiety is, wow, appropriate.

Your commentary reminded me of the time me & my siblings were around junior high age and our parents told us we couldn’t play any more Nintendo because they wanted to use the TV so I went back to our room and figured out how to hook up the Nintendo to the Commodore 64 monitor. That sense of achievement 🔥🔥

Jason Thompson

*sorry for the typos, I'm curmudgeony about how tiny phone keyboards have gotten lately despite how large screens have become.

This is one of my longtime favorites of Bradbury's. To be honest the w tire Illustrated Man has a very fond place in my heart, I feel like I had a Bradbury Revalation in the same way that a lot of people on here had with Lovecraft; finding the stories as a young teen and voraciously devouring them. What I find interesting re-reading the story recently and also picking and choosing some stories out of my Bradbury collection is this theme of the cold cruelty of children. This story, Zero Hour, and All Summer in a Day all showcase the seeming willingness of children to effortlessly do evil acts. As an adult this is particularly terrifying because I now have children and am witness to the tiny acts of cruelty they enact on one another with innocent glee, tormenting one another just for the enjoyment or to get a reaction. Normally it's very harmless, but it makes you wonder what they would do to one another (or you as the parent, as in the case of Zero Hour and The Veldt) if they were allowed to act on these impulses with impunity, or more frighteningly, with the negative outside influence of some "other" (be it technology or what have you). They seem to go from being sweet, innocent little things who want and express love and affection, to behaving in these cruel ways seemingly at the flick of a switch (I'll be sleeping with my bedroom door locked tonight thanks to this). Anyway, it makes me very happy you guys are covering Bradbury again, If I may make a request, The City is one of my absolute favorites, it disturbed me greatly as a 12yr old and still does upon rereading 18 years later. Hope to see many more of these, thanks guys!

The interesting thing about the Veldt is that is an unnatural 3rd place.The interesting thing that is super relevant is our current loss of 3rd places in our society. In fact people working out of their home have no second place ,just work-home. Society is held together by our 3rd place interactions and if that place is something artificial such as a VR room ,the monsters of the id will naturally take over and then return as horror.

As a long time virtual reality enthusiast, I have often thought of this story over the years while VR tech has matured to the point where consumers are finally starting to have experiences at least reminiscent of what is described in this story. It's now a common thing to see VR game streamers insist that their brains were telling them they were feeling or smelling something in a particularly convincing VR scene, much as the characters in the story start to think is happening. Human brains tend to anticipate sensations based on our overall perceptions, and so you end up swearing you can feel a breeze because you are next to a window with billowing curtains in VR and such. But while I unquestioningly loved this story as a kid, I view Bradbury's skepticism on technology a bit differently as an adult. On the one hand, Bradbury did predict so much of our modern world. But on the other hand, some of his assumptions do feel a little heavy handed now. VR in particular has always been shadowed in popular culture by this fear that people will become addicted to their dreams or stop being creative if they don't have to apply their imaginations to media in the same way all the time anymore. But now that VR is actually here, it really seems to have inspired a lot of creativity and artistic efforts, not to mention getting people to move more when gaming, which is probably healthier than being mouse or controller potatoes. Unlike Bradbury, I have gotten less cynical about what technology can do for us over time, even as I still love his stories that predicted our preoccupations with bigger and bigger televisions and constant phone use. As Chad noted, it's not the tool, it's what you do with it. That said, I'm not always so defensive of tech that I can't see its potential pitfalls either. Bradbury's self driving police cars and killer robot dog enforcers could be coming for us any day now.