Alchemy Plans | Patreon Weekly #82
Added 2020-12-28 16:00:04 +0000 UTCHey Patrons, Happy Holidays!
I’ve been taking it a bit easy this week, and so don’t have a lot to report in terms of v0.9.2 plans. So, I thought I’d shift gears a bit and talk about something that will be coming a bit later: improvements to alchemy!
What’s Wrong with Alchemy?
My original plan was for alchemy to add cool new mechanics based on consumable items, and easy ways to recycle consumable items you don’t want. The system sort of does this currently but has a lot of holes. The system is complex, only marginally helps with recycling items, and a majority of its produce is overly situational or just plain underpowered.
I think that the biggest source of these problems right now is alchemical energy.
Currently alchemical energy is a mostly static resource that the game just gives you as you find alchemy rooms. Because players will want to use it up, energy does a decent job of encouraging players to try out alchemy, but otherwise it utterly fails at its role. There is often more than enough energy for the player to craft what they want, and so mostly it ends up just adding complexity, rather than improving alchemy in any meaningful way.
How am I changing Alchemical Energy?
I think the best way to address this is to make a crucial change to energy that would make it a much more important part of the system: Recipes now use energy instead of seeds/stones, The energy that alchemy pots start with is massively reduced, but more energy can be generated by sacrificing potions, scrolls, seeds, and runestones.
This repositions energy as the core resource for alchemy. It would become a primary driving force both for the cost of recipes and for recycling consumables. Crucially, this would also be a lot more flexible than the current system, as once an item is turned into energy it could be used on anything.
Naturally, the next question is what happens to the existing recipes that involve items like seeds, stones, and catalysts? These recipes originally included these items as an attempt to get the player recycling, but if energy is changed in this way that is no longer needed. This is a part of the design I haven’t fully worked out yet. Swapping the seed/stone cost on many recipes is easy, but catalysts have some value in their own right, and so I may not want to totally remove them. There’s also the question of how the alchemy UI will be changed to accommodate all of this.
My current rough plan is to keep hammering out the details while working on talents, and then implement this change in v0.9.4, after the talent system is finished. In the meantime though, I’d love to hear whether you guys think this would be an improvement to the alchemy system!
Comments
Scrolls of remove curse actually used to have a stone equivalent for this, but people complained that it was useless. It was statistically better to keep the scroll of remove curse and just keep equipping things until you found something that was cursed. Rather than buffing it and just flipping that situation, I opted to change it to work on traps instead, so the items weren't in direct competition.
Shattered Pixel
2020-12-30 21:10:30 +0000 UTCThis is tricky because I suspect just letting players make potions/scrolls from any ingredient will lead to people to just stack healing potions. Giving more control over base drop consumables would be good though, just has to be limited in some way.
Shattered Pixel
2020-12-30 21:06:28 +0000 UTCRe-balancing energy costs is likely something that would go along with the change, but just reducing recipe costs alone isn't really going to help at all. That will just further push energy towards pointlessness while not really improving on any of the issues of the current system.
Shattered Pixel
2020-12-30 20:57:59 +0000 UTCI'd like to see this too! But if you did have the ingredients for that recipe, would it come at a reduced energy cost? 🤔
brodes
2020-12-29 02:38:21 +0000 UTCI think by using energy as the main ingredient for alchemy, It'd be much easier to balance the cost of late game alchemy items. By being able to sacrifice potions, scrolls, etc for more energy, you as a player would be able to make use of the alchemy pot much more frequently. But I don't think flat out reducing the cost of catalyst based recipes would be very balanced.
brodes
2020-12-29 02:36:13 +0000 UTCThat'd be cool! Should encourage players to recycle more!
brodes
2020-12-29 02:30:26 +0000 UTCIf anything you could just massively reduce the cost of catalyst-based recipes.
Zrp200
2020-12-28 18:21:03 +0000 UTCWhat I would love from the alchemy system is a way to be able to craft specific potions or items that I need from anything. Like sometimes you really want a specific potion, but if you don't find the base potion, or can't get the right seeds to create it, you are screwed. Let's say I want Featherfall, but have no potion of levitation, and not enough stormvine to create one. I would love to be able to use up more resources of other seeds or potions in order to be able to force the Potion of Levitation for example. Rather than risk random seeds in the hope of getting it.
D
2020-12-28 17:32:00 +0000 UTCI like this change. The biggest thing I notice with alchemy currently is that I mostly just make the 4-5 items that are super useful for specific boss fights, like the elixir of dragon's blood and arcane armor for Yog. I think an improvement to the system could include some items that make life in the dungeon a little easier, so you have to decide to use your limited energy on specific fights or on quality of life. One idea I like is an stone or spell that could identify which items are cursed in your inventory. Depending on its cost it could either effect one item or it could affect the whole inventory at the time of use. During the prisons and the caves I tend to get a glut of weapons, armor, rings, and wands and there are never enough scrolls of identify or remove curse, wells of healing or insight, or explosive traps to check all of them for upgrades or curses. It would be nice to be able to break down these more powerful scrolls to identify curses on items, especially since all the classes have way to improve how quickly they identify items naturally already through talents.
Andrew Gasper
2020-12-28 16:20:37 +0000 UTC