Attack on Titan 4x21: "From You, 2,000 Years Ago" //Early Access Reaction and Discussion

I absolutely can analyze it from a moral point of view and there are more than 2 choices, as shown by hange and the team. Genocide is wrong and they should say it. And they can fight for a third option.

Mizzy

Yes and there are 2 choice, let the world genocide eldians or the rumbling. You can't analyse the situation from a moral point of view, this is pure pragmatism and rationalism.

dolo

This manga is a warning.. if the entire world persecute a country who has the military power to destroy the world, the country will do it... because anyone who is threated to be killed defends itself before being killed... they're is no pacific ending in this case. There are 2 choice, win against the whole world or be killed by the whole world... eren chose to sacrifice hilself and the whole world to protect his people. You can't analyse the situation with a moral point of view because it's the most radical situation..

dolo

Eren is not a vilain, this is a story of an ultimatum.

dolo

Based

Jasmine Tea Enjoyer

Empty words mean nothing

Forrial

Genocide is wrong.

Mizzy

eren get out of here i read the manga and your plan kinda makes sense in the end go be the stickbug titan some more or sumn

Sydney

so we met the devil of all earth i guess. and turns out. he's just a big bug. huh.

Sydney

This is bullshit. Eren waited until Tybur officially declared war. Don't try to pretend they're innocent.

Zyrus

Enough people that the critical mass kept the hate going for a century. You're arguing the exceptions, not the rule. Pretending otherwise is a naive dream.

Zyrus

thats what im saying your deduction is just that, a deduction, it has weight and you can deduce all you want with what we have and infer but as i said it doesn't change the fact that it has not yet or been presented at this point of the story, regarding your formulae of titan mechanics it is too one sided to the founding titan, looking through that lens yet missing out on what available info we have . if you want to use formula then instead of inferred deduction , id rather go with presented truths - royal blood is only needed by founding titan to access the rumbling. not to see the future of titan holder ( this is already specific trait for Attack titan and defining the loop of memories for certain characters) titan shifters can see past memories of titan holders but not the future, thats the difference with AT. Eren merely needed the royal blood to activate the founding titans power for the rumbling rather than it being a solely a prerequisite for seeing future memory and/or sending memories to past of titan wielders. you can deduce all you want but it will always bend to you will/subjective pov. the founding titan is always kept in check by AT. id rather watch attack on titan than jaw on titan/ beast on titan/ warhammer on titan... why didnt eren influence the thyburs ? coz its not the attack titan. id refer to the work than a fan deduction (which is pretty damn good ) but i digress to what has been presented and not inferred too. i get what you're coming from but i wont budge unless theres more actual narrative expositions rather than unconfirmed deductions that further support you formula.

You realize characters say things with limited info right? Not everything that is said is literally true. My point is that the formula for the future seeing powers is this: non-Royal Eldian (holding the Founding Titan + 1 more Titan) touches a Royal Eldian (holding any Titan power). The other Titan power held by the non-Royal does not have to be the Attack Titan. This isn't even a theory, this is a deduction. Sorry if this breakdown is still not enough for you to understand, I can't make it any easier.

Globalist

i would stick with the script and presented facts in the story rather than theories tbh , you can frame it that way but up to this point what is presented to the audience spell otherwise. your inference has weight but if you say easily the warhammer, it wont because they have had contact with zeke , so many times, so did colossal and armoured titan. Attack titan is solely the only titan not influenced by founding titans 'will' so if any other titan used founding titan they will revert to the renouncing of wars will , except ATTACK TITAN. not every titan can do What attack titan can, and your claim that it easily can be any titan shifter to accumulate that said function/mechanic/skill/power is not valid based on given info drops and facts within the story ( disregarding theories of mechanics that hasn't even been confirmed. ) so no , if i missed the point , is that it is YOUR point of view , NOT isayamas words in the world and characters built so far, so thanks for trying to correct something im aware of that can be valid in theory but will stick with my own view if this is gonna be subjective discourse. sigh

@meat You missed the point. The Attack Titan has that power because that's the titan Eren had when he made contact with Zeke. If Grisha had inherited a different titan from Kruger instead of the Attack, then that titan would have had the future-seeing ability because the ability isn't actually specific to the Attack Titan. It's Eren using the power of the Founding to send his memories to previous wielders of his titan. Which titan he has doesn't matter (aside from the Founding). It could just as easily have been the Warhammer that had that power.

camel

Doesnt matter, if you let people do what they did (hundreds of years of persecution, sending pure titans their way knowing they will get eatan alive) and not do anything against it then you are an accomplice. All Eren did was self defense and before you say he didnt have to go that far, yes he had to. The world already send their whole military to kill them all, they all made their choice, if Eren stopped and Paradis lost their only chance at using the Rumbling they would be the one dying.

Forrial

yeah you're acting like everyone that lives there is indoctrinated though. there is literally people like have the same mindset as annie or falco that know it's not black and white.

demetri

If the editor or someone is reading tell Anna that she misheard the lyrics of the opening. The last lane of the opening has no "you two" or anything like that.

Forrial

S2 anime ending came long before the manga even got to this point about Ymir being eaten by Maria, Rose, and Sina.

Andrew

uhm sending memories and seeing memories of future titan wielder is exclusive to the Attack Titans power. . .not all 9 has that power, only SHINGEKI KYOJIN - which was spelled out last episode by grisha to frida and the reiss family.

They were going to grow up indoctrinated by the stupid people around them, so does it matter how old they are at this point? It's been a century, and they're still keeping up the hate.

Zyrus

My takeaway from this ep is that the Attach Titan doesn't actually have future seeing powers. That power only exists because Eren and Zeke touched. If Eren had the Armored instead of the Attack, then he would be sending memories to all previous Armored Titans. I'm also glad you brought up the theory that Eren is purposefully making himself the great evil for the world to unite against. I feel like no other reactors ever arrive at this theory, but it perfectly explains Eren's actions.

Globalist

No regrets Rob

Tim Zaum

yes

Forrial

Glad to know we agree. To be really honest even I don't have anyone to talk to so I say these stuff in their comments. If you wanna discuss AoT, I'd gladly enjoy. Thing is we can't converse here about the ending since they'd probably read comments after this season

Child of the forest

Ymir had such an awful, miserable life..so many years moving forward without rest and she finally got her freedom but a what cost? The world is lost at this point. King Fritz is the worst of the worst.. This show is just amazing.

Aras Paty

even literal infant babies who can't talk yet?

Jasmine Tea Enjoyer

I LOL when you ripped the book in half but trust me, 100% valid response. y'all are my favorite bc, you just are, the attention to detail, the talks, basically everything you guys do together is a win. lol but I cant be saying that All the time, it'll get weird or something, but its nice to know I think, and I think y'all are winners and doing amazing. A + in my books. more S tier tbh

Reggie Azem

I like Everything you said, especially about the Attack Titan, I don't have anyone i know to speak with, but After re reading and re watching countless times, I also came to that same conclusion. EVERYthing that has happened since the First Attack Titan has to be connected For Eren's plan to work. It's like a direct building block, just 2 millennia's of unbroken Will, meaning it could Only be Ymir's, plus the titles of the first ep and this confirm this theory.

Reggie Azem

From the narrations in season 1 and the history books shown, around 100 years ago (specifically, 107 years from chapter 2 of the manga), the first ruler of the Walls, King Fritz the 145th created the walls to protect humanity (They mentioned it in the 20th episode too: when grisha's father explained it to him). When a someone gains a titan power, their remaining lifespan is set to 13 years due to "Ymir's Curse". Same number of years between the royal family's succession ritual. "145th king" means there have been 145 wielders of the Founding Titan at that time. 145 x 13 = 1885. So 107 years ago, it has been 1885 years from Ymir Fritz. At present time (1885 +107) it would be 1992 years since Ymir Fritz. Eren got his titan power at age 10, he's supposed to die when he's 23. Currently, Eren is 15 and has around 8 years left to live. So it makes 1992 +8 = 2000... Ready??? SEASON 1 EPISODE 1 Title: "To you, in 2000 years."

Child of the forest

Who says the world united to kill everyone on the island BEFORE Eren attacked Marley and made it seem like Willy Tybor was telling the truth? Sure they were moved by his speech but I don't want to assume they were all on board with attacking Paradis. Like I'm sure there would of been conversations held after the speech, but Eren put the nail in the coffin when he attacked Marley in front of all their eyes and basically "confirmed", that he was a threat to the world.

Ray

Great, now I don’t know if I want to watch part 3 as it sounds like they f@ck it up like Game of Thrones

Rob Brown

Speak for youself, Eren is right in my eyes to kill the entire world. The world united to kill everyone on the island and that gives the right for the people living there to defend themselfs and do the same to their enemies.

Forrial

Ok so here's my interpretation of ymir's feelings You guys were mostly spot on So Ymir was a slave for her whole life and didn't know anything better. But she craved connection when she saw that marrying couple(idk if it's the king or someone else but it doesn't matter). After she got the power, she went back to the king because all she knows, is how to serve someone. Notice when the king says "he'll reward her with his seed🤢", her hands are placed in a way which resembles a convict being handcuffed, showing how she's shackled to the king. Basically a condition of stockholm syndrome. In her eyes, her only connection in life is to be the king's slave. And her kids are the symbol of that connection. It's all fucked up. But then why did she not obey him and heal herself after the spear pierced her chest? Perhaps, in that one moment, when she saw the king ordering her to rise(basically heal herself) , she felt a sense of worthlessness which is a symptom of many patients of stockholm syndrome and she lost the will to live due to that. We know from Reiner that you won't heal unless you have the will to live. But she still does not die fully because ofcourse, if it were that easy to just let go of her slavic mindset, then we wouldn't have had AoT. She forms paths realm and obeys the king's order there. Two contradictory feelings of someone who's only known slavery and has seen it as the only connection in life forms a world where she's away from the man who gave her the feeling of worthlessness but could also follow his orders that she had always done. A place free of death. A place that connected every eldian to her. Why? Because she craved connection. That's why everyone is connected to Ymir(the coordinate). Now the 8 other shifters are all some sort of wish or desire of ymir stemming from her trauma - Armour- protect herself from foes(dogs, arrows etc) Beast- she feels she's below humans like animals Cart- a tool (basically a human tool that's why the cart titan has a human like structure) Colossal - rage with the strongest destructive titan Jaw- agile and small with sharp teeth like the dogs that chased her and her trauma cuz of that Female- she is female Warhammer - a tool used for fighting other nations(marley) And finally Attack- the little desire to be free which made her free the pigs. That little desire plays into her waiting in paths for eren. Remember how I told in my previous comment under the last episode reaction on how eren manipulated every past holder of the AT. Well who was the first??? Ymir herself. So I interpret the little desire for freedom inside Ymir being the nature of eren himself since it's a loop. The first founder and the latest founder who have the attack titan with them. This interpretation may sound wack but you will perhaps like it after the ending. I didn't spoil anything. Only used stuff that has been said or shown before and since you guys have always talked about it being a loop. Regarding the mechanics of titan creation, infinite and instant are used here with respect to the world you are talking about. If you're talking about the paths world, then with respect to the real world, time in paths world is infinitely slow. Conversely, with respect to the paths world, time in real world in an instant. So whenever someone turns into a titan in the real world, Ymir build the titan slowly and slowly in paths, but in real world it's an instant. Now just think about it, she waited for 2000 years in paths. 2000 here is the time of the real world. In paths time, it's infintely more than 2000 years. She has the most cursed existence in this world. Hence the curse of the titans. Also, she was making the wall titans in this episode just before eren's Monologue cut through fritz's Monologue. You could see a line on giant colossals that she's making. Sorry for the long one lol but lastly i'd like to add that the episode title of ep 1 and this ep have a meaning but it's a spoiler so I won't tell

Child of the forest

Fun fact the worm/centipede thing is based on a real thing called a hallucigenia

Night Sterling

The outside world deserves the Rumbling

Forrial

(NOT A SPOILER) Not much is known about the worm that's the source of Titan powers in both anime and manga, it's been mostly left to the reader/viewer interpretation, so i can share what I think without spoiling anything. I personally think it's supposed to be grounded in science, not spiritual/magical/alien powers, given what the worm was inspired by. The worm actually existed in our real world. It's an extinct species called Hallucigenia. Until new findings were made very recently, it was the most mysterious life form ever discovered. Scientists couldn't even agree where its front or back was, or what were the functions of any of its body parts, which leaves quite a lot for a sci-fi writer's interpretation of what it could've been and how would it interact with a human if it survived in a cave somewhere. What scientists did notice, was that it was lacking a mouth and sexual organs, so its means of reproduction and survival were unknown. - Giving birth to the idea that Hallucigenia would not be capable of replicating sexual and digestive organs for titans it's making I suppose, as it can't understand their purpose. Since it had to survive somehow, making it dependent on solar power like a tree it was originally connected to seems like a clever idea. It also had to reproduce somehow, so scientists theorized it was perhaps a parasite that would try to enter a state of symbiosis with other organisms to spread around its genes as they reproduce, though they had no idea what would it give in return for other organisms helping its genes spread around - imagining it as a mimicking parasite that would enlarge the hosts body to protect itself while using Eldians to spread around its genes into a whole race of men is another clever idea from Isayama to fill up the gaps in actual science. The design behind titan powers isn't random. It's actually VERY well thought through, and you can find many more small hints throughout the series. Remember Reiner being able to spread around its nervous system throughout the whole body to survive decapitation? EXACTLY like earthworms can? Or how about Hange noticing how Titans are very much similar to trees? Having their weight being distributed from bottom up, with arms being like "tree bark" and heads being very light? Almost like a ball of leaves, huh. The previous organism Hallucigenia was connected to was the large mutated tree. Perhaps it even learned the trick with channeling lightning from the atmosphere from its time connected to a tree, since it was by far the tallest tree around, it would've been struck with lightnings millions of times since the ancient times. AoT is sometimes so clever, you can go back and the watch the entire series with just one character or theme in mind, and you can discover a lot of new things and details hidden throughout. Amazing storytelling and lore building!

Adam Adamowicz

AoT: Final Season episode 21: the episode where Eren won both Best protagonist & antagonist in 2022 Crunchyroll Anime Awards 😂

Xam

Super impressed you got the daughters' names before they revealed the whole cannibalism part. I didn't expect it (even though it was obvious) and most reaction channels I've watched didn't predict that till it happened either. It seems obvious in hindsight/upon reflection but... still awesome.

lafatte24

Funny thing, the hallucinogenia is a real prehistoric organism. Love that Isayama was nerdy enough to actually use something real.

lafatte24

Oh I think I probably came off harsher than I meant too. I don’t really hate the ending like everyone else does, I just definitely think the writing isn’t as tight and some things (mostly character decisions) are pretty wonky. I’m not trying to influence anyone’s opinion on it or anything, my original comment was more so intended to praise the absolutely flawless execution of the story up to and including this episode.

Rice

That Rod Reiss question gets brought up a lot by reactors and now I'm really worried about how many folks out there think licking a broken flu shot off the ground will keep them from getting influenza.

AfroNinjutsu

A tastey detail is how zeke looked like the original king fritz

Jonathan Haws

it doesnt trend down hill at all. this is just false

Wayne Patterson

search for the song " Kimi ga Fusawashii to Omou Daimei" and read the lyrics its about Ymir, also remember what Eren answered Pixis, and the finale of season 1

unk2332

I agree with Katie. We should refrain on giving our opinions on the end of AoT so that they aren't influenced by anyone (positive or negative).

MacarooniR0b

dude just spoiled the biggest plot point in the entire show im dead, manga readers are truly something else

Jasmine Tea Enjoyer

I liked the rest of the manga ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ but in any case I don’t think we should put ideas in people’s heads on if it was the best thing ever or the worst downturn. I think the anime and manga should be enjoyed with an open mind without our own opinions influencing others’ experiences

Katie Barnes

The reason Rod looked like that is cause he ingested the fluid wrong, there's been a constant way in which the titans have been transformed, and he did it by drinking it which is very much not how we've seen it be done before.

vera

This is the absolute peak of the story right here. Unfortunately It does trend down from here to the end of the manga but still the journey from the beginning to this episode/chapter was truly almost perfect.

Rice

"How did rod escape" Grisha tells you, "i killed all but the father just like you wanted" it was part of the plan. Gotta have historia to know the future to impact the future... to know the future.... And you don't have to assume ymir went back, she might of also passed out after her first transformation, got recaptured and lost memories, like everyone else does.

Sevenpsych

Let's not start this here already please.

Zyrus

Ha ha ha! How does it feel to realize that -from the beginning- you guys haven't witnessed the origins of a hero but the story of a villain instead? >:D

Byron Cuevas

The events of The Paths are only instant outside of it, inside the Paths time pretty much passes as usual, that's why zeke is looking old etc when he was waiting for Eren. So yeah Ymir was toilling in that realm for 2000+ years.

vera

I always thought Ymir freed the pigs herself because she values freedom no matter what creature you are. She was enslaved her whole life so.

demetri

I LOVE that we see what caused the titans but don't get any concrete answers as to wtf it is, where it came from, or what it wants (if anything at all). Ymir just happened to be at the right place at the right time (wrong place wrong time?). Everything that's happened in this story happened because of an oopsie. Which makes it even more fkd up. IMO, this parasitic prehistoric or alien creature holds a mystery that does not need answers whatsoever because... it doesn't matter. At least, not for THIS story. Also, google Hallucigenia, it'll remind you of a little spine-looking friend of ours.

Eileen Gheysari

I never thought about how that all happened in a matter of seconds (if that) in front of Gabi. That's a good observation. Thankfully Reiner was on top of things to save her.

Ray

If you guys haven't, you should listen to the song that was playing during "The Rumbling", it's called, "Footsteps of Doom". Godlike theme. Also, I think we all know in our hearts that Eren is not right for trying to kill the entire world outside of Paradis Island's shores. I love this anime with all my heart but I remember watching Season 4 Part II and just being like, "Can this anime end already?". My heart can not take being tugged in so many directions anymore. And the hopelessness.. It seems like there's no answers where everyone wins. If Eren does the rumbling but doesn't kill everyone outside of Paradis, the survivors will tell their children stories of the rumbling and how horrific it was. Their kids will view the people of Paradis the same way they are viewed today. If Eren doesn't do the rumbling at all, the people of the world will STILL attack Paradis Island because of the attack on Marley that he lead. Top reporters from every nation were there to witness it. Honestly, Eren doesn't have much of a choice when you start to play out the scenarios and it's so fucking upsetting because you know that it's wrong.

Ray

Attack on Titan is that kind of show where sometimes the first ten minutes of your discussion just has to start with dissecting how you as an individual process complex emotions 😂 Then almost the first thing Ben asks is “Will killing everyone outside the island help Ymir finally rest?” which is just *the perfect question*. Goated show, hall of fame reactors

hman70

First episode title was "To You , 2000 Years From Now"

Arimpact

You're in the end game now

Auti O

Looks like Eren kept his promise all the way from season 1 episode 2 at the boat when he said he'll exterminate them all.

Cation

Don't spoil if that's the case in the manga, but I've always thought Dina was simply an abnormal, probably because shes royal, similar with Rod Reiss. Dina also said she'd find Grisha no matter what form she takes, which is why she went straight to Grisha's house, ignoring Bert. So I don't think it was Eren's influence per se

Joshua

My favorite part about this episode is the music. It doesn't sound like the good guys are reaching their climactic victory, it sounds like the bad guys are just getting started. And imagine you're Gabi. You take aim, pull the trigger and before you can even shake off the recoil the sky is red and the walls are crumbling. Must have made Eren seem like a Devil

Spinning Red Chair

Spinning Red Chair