Attack on Titan 4x20: "Memories of the Future" // Early Reaction and Discussion
Added 2023-01-16 04:12:05 +0000 UTC
Comments
That's so awesome!
Xavii MAncero MosquerA
2023-01-22 15:15:39 +0000 UTCOh interesting! Thanks for the correction! I'm still working on my listening hahaha
Stephen
2023-01-20 22:52:47 +0000 UTCHi, I am Japanese. Grisha says "カルラの安否", so the translation is correct. The pronunciation is similar for sure, I'm impressed at your listening ability and careful attention to small details.
三上
2023-01-20 22:47:13 +0000 UTCThank you
Child of the forest
2023-01-20 20:43:57 +0000 UTCExactly. It's easy to miss but it explains perfectly how this works. Griesha can hear Eren because he has the power to glimpse into the future, so he can connect with future Eren. But why he can see Zeke? Because they are together in these memories, whenever Eren is connected to Griesha and looks at Zeke, Griesha can see him too, like from a 3rd person camera perspective. It's crazy how well thought-through this is. Isayama alone gave 10 times more thought and consistency to time travel than all of superhero genre.
Adam Adamowicz
2023-01-19 09:19:01 +0000 UTCYour analysis of Eren's free will is exactly what I ess getting at in earlier comments. And I completely agree with your conclusion. Great post.
D
2023-01-18 00:11:34 +0000 UTCYeah! They'll be exactly on time to watch it live with all of us, that's gonna be so freakin sweet!
Adam Adamowicz
2023-01-17 14:43:10 +0000 UTCPart 3 March 4th! At their pace they’ll catch up with about two weeks to breathe. 2023 is our year guys
hman70
2023-01-17 13:24:17 +0000 UTCOne thing I noticed in this episode is when Grisha says Eren didn’t show him whether or not Carla is safe, he says “カルラの安地” which better translates as Carla’s safe place” or a safe place for Carla
Stephen
2023-01-17 06:20:34 +0000 UTCThe real question is... Are the viewers really free? Are we able to have our own opinions of Eren and the Marley/Paradis conflict, or were they predetermined by Isayama from the beginning? So why do we keep watching? Because we were born into this world.
Tempered Glasses
2023-01-17 02:18:44 +0000 UTCPlot twist, Pieck was the main character the whole time. 10/10 would watch again.
Tempered Glasses
2023-01-17 02:16:18 +0000 UTCNot sure if it’s because I’m on mobile but I wanted to thank you all (Readster, Sayantan, and Joshua) for taking the time to reply! Great community <3
Russell Gambardella
2023-01-17 00:16:52 +0000 UTCBoth make sense and I appreciate you not spoiling the last reason, thanks!
Russell Gambardella
2023-01-17 00:01:27 +0000 UTCAh yea I forgot to consider his further troubles emotional state when he finds out Carla is dead, thanks!
Russell Gambardella
2023-01-17 00:00:45 +0000 UTCEren himself has always been a slave to himself and the idea of freedom
bondbond53
2023-01-16 18:12:36 +0000 UTCMy speculation is that Eren will still send more memories back to the past in a convenient time to convince Grisha to give Eren the founding. It's like they said, Eren picks and chooses what memory to send back to direct how Grisha reacts. At this moment, he sent memories of "something horrible" because he knows this is what Grisha has to see right now. It's possible that Eren sends "something good" when Grisha gets back to Eren, which convinces him.
Joshua
2023-01-16 17:06:42 +0000 UTCDefinitely Pieck fiction.
Eugene
2023-01-16 16:01:48 +0000 UTCu have a point !!!!
vinny cucinello
2023-01-16 15:38:43 +0000 UTCLook at how eren is positioned everytime grisha saw zeke eren was facing zeke when grisha saw zeke
Deonte Gray
2023-01-16 13:48:41 +0000 UTCOne is that he found carla dead and thought that he has no other choice. Also his term of 13 years must have been close to being over. Another reason is yet to be animated
Child of the forest
2023-01-16 13:42:40 +0000 UTCMy understanding is that once Grisha gets back and finds out that Carla is dead he gives up completely and doesn't care anymore. He's lost both of the women he loves as well as his sister. Noteably, when he injects Eren, along with the line about Armin and Mikasa, he also tells Eren to avenge Carla. Basically Grisha is so overcome with grief, along with all of the emotions he's still feeling from taking the Founding Titan, that he has completely changed his mind and just wants to let Eren get his way.
Readster
2023-01-16 13:41:49 +0000 UTCWhat a great comment!
Yinki
2023-01-16 13:36:53 +0000 UTCI don't think you can compare what Eren is doing with "shooting somebody in a head". In Eren case avoiding to take actions will lead to Eldians being destroyed by other nations or by Zeke plan. He would still be responsible for that outcome if he did nothing. But Eren acts only after declaration of war on Paradise. Yeah they declared war because of fear what Eren might do to save themselves, but still. Marley acted first. So Eren either do nothing and let Paradise to be destroyed (which is extremely out of character for him to do) or takes actions that he took. I don't really see it as a pursue of freedom, more like persue of survival.
B11zzard1991
2023-01-16 13:13:21 +0000 UTCIt’s interesting how after Grisha steals the Founding Titan he asks Zeke to stop Eren…yet he proceeds to inject Eren with Titan serum and give him the Founding Titan. I know he’s been manipulated by Eren who’s been showing him convenient bits of the future but technically, he still had the choice to never give Eren the Founding Titan at that point in time. I’m not saying this is a plot hole as I can think of a few reasons why Grisha would still ultimately willingly choose to give Eren the Founding Titan… “boy” Eren technically hasn’t done anything yet…Eren’s safety…hoping the future he saw through Eren’s memories is not set in stone…Grisha was very traumatized and emotional in the moment he asked Zeke to stop him….etc, I was just wondering if there’s any more explicit clarity on this in the manga as I haven’t read it yet!
Russell Gambardella
2023-01-16 12:24:38 +0000 UTCEren is the child geisha wanted in Marley and zeke is the child he wanted on Paradis
Deonte Gray
2023-01-16 11:50:25 +0000 UTCThey really fed us. 🍱 🥲 Next episode is going to be a cornucopia.
Paris Hardy
2023-01-16 11:23:18 +0000 UTCGreat discussion as always! Something to add is this. I do not think that Eren necessarily got a "power up" when he touched Zeke. Eren's attack titan power has always been the same, which is to send memories back to the past. HOWEVER, the fact that Zeke used the paths to bring Eren into Grisha's memory, means that Grisha saw his OWN future through Eren's eyes, which led him on the rails to this specific outcome. This is not normally possible. At least that's how I saw it.
Joshua
2023-01-16 10:38:10 +0000 UTCOkay, it's just amazing how you were able to put so much together in one sitting. But just in case you two are not able to articulate it well in your head, I'd explain the paths mechanics here which took me 3 re reads of the manga chapter for this episode to fully get. Time travel is not a thing in AoT. Only the memories and will to act travel. Zeke and eren were there the entire time, but grisha saw Zeke only twice. One was when he was in the basement and the other was outside the cave. Again, it's the memories. Grisha saw everything from eren's pov. The reason being eren was standing behind grisha and looking at Zeke on those two occasions. As Anna pointed out, eren realised this when grisha first saw Zeke in the basement. And after that you could see how the control of this journey shifted from Zeke to eren. Till that moment, zeke was leading the way. But right after eren realised what's happening, he took control. Another thing, grisha never saw future eren, he just felt his presence. In the 🗝️ scene when grisha is looking at future eren, he's basically looking at himself in 3rd person. It's not memories of the judgement day that he's seeing. Those are memories eren has ofcourse sent him but whenever he looks at eren, he sees himself in 3rd person because eren is looking at him. Also in the cave grisha felt eren's angry presence behind him. Grisha was literally being watched by eren all along and grisha knew this. Lastly, attack titan can see the future is a very oversimplified explanation. Actually it's the memories sent by eren to the past that makes AT see the future. Same happened when eren passed the memories to Kruger (the owl) when se said "you have to save Mikasa and Armin" to grisha. Eren IS the Attack Titan. The characteristic of the Attack Titan to keep moving forward and seek freedom is literally Eren's characteristic. Eren manipulated all past users to keep moving forward and act the way he wants just so he could reach this point so much so that it was thought to be a characteristic of the AT when eren is literally the person who gave this power to AT. You asked "why eren", it's because he is the only person to satisfy certain conditions. He had the AT, the founder and a titan of royal blood using which he made it to the coordinate. It doesn't even have to be AT. If eren had the cart titan, he could have still done the same thing and the world would have said "the cart titan is the one that moves forward and seeks freedom". So it's not that AT influences it's holders to seek freedom, it's eren influencing other holders throught the AT to seek freedom. And yes Anna, eren can manipulate previous holders and he did that to all the holders of the AT since it's first holder to reach the point where grisha takes the founder and gives it to eren. "We were led by our memories for this one moment". Just like how the first king's ideals affect every founding Titan Inheritor, eren's ideals affect every past AT holder. So FT is connected with the past and AT is connected to the future. So eren created these manipulations after getting access to the coordinate after they touched, but then a future eren sent the memories of these manipulations to grisha in the past. It's trippy. Like the forming of the memory and the sending of that memory is happening at the same time. So as Ben said, everything from s1-s4 was already influenced. Yes it was. Because grisha getting the memories of getting manipulated by eren into killing the royal family is a memory being sent to him by a future eren(Eren we are about to see who's gonna do "something terrible" as grisha said). The same eren who sent him the future memory of "something terrible" that grisha tells zeke about. Eren cannot see the future. Nor can any holder of the AT. It's only when eren wants them to see what he has already seen in his time that past holders can see the future. Eren only saw his future in a roundabout way through his dad's memories when he kissed historia's hand. The same memories that he created after going to the coordinate with Zeke and then sending those memories to grisha. Yes, it's a loop. So yes, AT is on rails. Now there's this question to ponder over, does eren have free will? It might seem that he does because everything happened as he wanted but then by knowing the future, he's trying to make sure it doesn't deviate from that path. So, is he doing what he's doing because he saw the future and does that make him really free because the future is holding him captive? To me, eren is a slave to his own future memories and his nature. This entire episode was a commentary of nature vs nurture aka eren vs Zeke. Lastly, You may think how grisha touched Zeke. It's just that he was hugging the space where zeke was standing. In real time, if anyone had seen grisha would have thought grisha is just hugging air. That scene symbolises a "fake" hug or a "hollow" hug symbolising it's too late for grisha to redeem himself as zeke's father.
Child of the forest
2023-01-16 10:10:39 +0000 UTC"If I saw my future self shooting someone in the head, albeit for good reasoning, I would try to put myself in a position for that to not happen". The thing is, I think Eren did try to change the future he saw. We saw in 4x9 and 4x10 that he opposed going with Zeke's plan in the beginning, trying to find another way. IMO the moment he realized that the future he saw was inevitable was when Sasha died. When it happened, his first question was "did she say something" (a weird 1st question to ask in that moment) and then, when he heard Connie's answer, he lost it (like he did when Hannes died): that's when he realized he was powerless to change the future. The next time we saw him in the present was in the prison, the Tatakae! scene: to me, that's when he finally accepted that he will go down that road, but he hates what he's going to do and has to drive himself to do it. But does that makes him a slave or not? I don’t know! Like you said it’s a philosophical question. He knows his future choices, but they remain HIS choices nevertheless. To me, if Eren is a slave, he’s a slave of his pursuit of freedom. If that isn’t a contradiction!
pas douée pour les pseudos
2023-01-16 09:56:29 +0000 UTCHow can I wait till friday tho
Francesco Montefusco
2023-01-16 09:40:56 +0000 UTCAs this episode alludes to, Eren saw his dad's memories when he kissed Historia's hand. He probably saw the memories future Eren let Grisha see, too. Four years ago, he saw a terrible future. Four years later he's doing everything in his power to ensure it does not stray from that path. Those who push themselves into hell...
Stoke me a clipper
2023-01-16 09:06:32 +0000 UTCI guess its just more a philosophical and circular(pun intended) question. If I saw my future self shooting someone in the head, albeit for good reasoning, I would try to put myself in a position for that to not happen. But Eren here marches straight towards the future he sees, knowing full well the damage it will cause. He could have made different choices along the way but his drive for freedom pushes him to do what he said in this episode to Zeke: Take others' freedom before they can take his. Its a scary and dangerous way to live one's life though fits well with the hotheaded kid we've watched grow up. And this isnt me saying one should never fight for their freedom, not at all. That scene when Eren get upset after being told he is the slave by Armin says a whole lot, IMO. Eren is quit literally a slave to his future self and time(more than humans normally are). He's aware of the things to come and can influence them but only in a way that will ensure what he's seen will come to pass, regardless of whether or not he likes it. To me that is a type of slavery and a bit tragic for his character considering it was his own doing that put him into that positition.. IMO the other characters are more free than Eren will ever be. They can move and make choices, regardless of whether or not those choices change things, without the thought of the inevitable future looming over their heads.
D
2023-01-16 08:32:26 +0000 UTCEren is truly free. And this is because the fixed future that was inevitable was HIS choice. It's true that Attack Titan is on rails - it can visit the past via memories and see into the glimpses of the future, so Attack Titan isn't really free - it FIGHTS for freedom, it's its core trait, precisely because it never had it. It's bound by the past and future memories and it can never be free, so it never stops fighting for it. However, Attack Titan met a person who was truly free, Eren, and that changed everything. Eren used Attack Titan's power to break the cycle. (Spoiler for the episode ahead) He freed Ymir. He decided to put a final end to one side of the revenge cycle, choosing Eldians over the rest of humanity out of love for his friends, but choosing none the less, when all the wielders of the Founding Titan from the past could never make that choice, resulting in the cycle repeating itself forever. Eren was free, all that happened was his own choice. Exactly like he said in Savagery, and like he is going to state once again in the final episode of the anime, when he explains his intentions to Armin.
Adam Adamowicz
2023-01-16 07:54:04 +0000 UTCLast Also...Anna is super smart lol Edit: Ben too.. 1:34:00 Comment. Chef's kiss. The fact that yall are able to put all this together in one sitting is brilliant and makes me excited for future shows like this that you watch....monster hint hint lol
D
2023-01-16 07:47:47 +0000 UTCbe sure to get some sleep
Aespa MY
2023-01-16 07:31:28 +0000 UTCLike Kenny said, " Everyone had to be drunk on something to keep pushing on... Everyone was a slave to something. "
Duke
2023-01-16 07:18:58 +0000 UTCDoes it really matter if you are slave to future self if you would make the same choices anyway? Like let’s say he sees his future and than thinks yeah I agree - let’s do it. Does it makes him a slave? Don’t you think Eren would fight to prevent future if he didn’t agree with what he saw? Maybe that’s what happened in a first place until he carved the future he wanted and that’s what finally formed known events. The way I see it it’s because of Eren attack titan strives for freedom. Eren influenced every inheritor from the start (maybe not directly, but as Grisha said they were all led to this moment). They all were striving for freedom because it’s just how Eren is.
B11zzard1991
2023-01-16 07:03:59 +0000 UTCAlso, when yall finally come back and read these comments, I want you to ask yourselves if Eren is truly Free. Can someone who knows the future and who, based on this episode, literally caused that future to occur for themselves truly be free? Eren put himself into this position. The Attack Titan strives for freedom, eternally. As does Eren. Is it because he knows he isn't? Makes the scene in Savagery when Armin throws Eren's words about being a slave back into his face more powerful. We see Eren become upset and express true emotion for first time in a while during that scene. Is Eren free or is he slave to himself, who he is and how he was born? He was born into this world, and was not special, until he forced himself to become so.
D
2023-01-16 06:08:06 +0000 UTCThe moment you realize the whole story was masterfully crafted all the way from Season 1 Episode 1, when Griesha didn't even look at Eren while talking to him... and when little Eren himself told his own Father that if he doesn't move along with the plan of Restorationists, their lives were in vain. Yup, you realize, if you haven't already, that you're watching the best TV show ever made. Every single episode, every line of dialogue has a thought through purpose and contributes to the future episodes. You could say, this show is on rails, always driving full speed to the inevitable future, just like Attack Titan within Eren. This show is amazing. And right when the last season is about to drop?? What a time to be alive!
Adam Adamowicz
2023-01-16 05:34:07 +0000 UTCEren's pep talk to Grisha is basically a rehash of Kruger's pep talk to Grisha. The callbacks are unreal.
SLK8
2023-01-16 05:16:59 +0000 UTCPeak fiction. Isayama is a madman....because Eren whispered the story into his ears.
D
2023-01-16 05:13:45 +0000 UTCEren said "right back atcha"
Michael deBoisblanc
2023-01-16 05:02:28 +0000 UTC"Zeke pulls uno reverse card"...
Michael deBoisblanc
2023-01-16 05:02:02 +0000 UTCThe episode you finally knew you were watching peak storytelling
Raden
2023-01-16 04:45:11 +0000 UTCIt's time
Benjamin Yee
2023-01-16 04:43:41 +0000 UTCHere. We. Go.
vera
2023-01-16 04:29:08 +0000 UTCgreatest story ever told
Mason Sali-Orvald
2023-01-16 04:27:14 +0000 UTCAmenn I’ve been waiting for this 😌
Armani
2023-01-16 04:19:03 +0000 UTCA two hour discussion, we’re eating good tonight 😈
hman70
2023-01-16 04:14:50 +0000 UTC
