Supporter Exclusive: Gravity, god of the atheists
Added 2022-11-09 00:36:56 +0000 UTC
Comments
Projection - listen to Donald Trump - every time he accuses anyone of anything, you can be pretty sure he did that thing. In fairness, we often project our feelings on to others even non-human animals.
QuebecCity Oliver
2024-05-10 14:00:30 +0000 UTCI wonder why so many of the religious think that everyone else must also be religious.
Daniel
2023-04-17 02:11:19 +0000 UTCAlso, the density thing kills me with guys like this. First, what they are describing is buoyancy, not density, and second its the force of gravity pulling on objects that makes them sink or float. And even then! The mediums matter! Try getting a solid hunk of gold to 'sink' through ice. Look at that, density irrelevant! And don't even get started on displacement in relation to boats floating which, again, is tied to the weight of the displaced medium due to gravity.
Fletcher Etheridge
2022-12-22 10:11:14 +0000 UTC"It should pull in, I imagine, one direction" It does, Shmuel. The force of gravity pulls toward the center of any object with mass. Of every object with mass. Earth's gravity pulls things toward Earth, my gravity pulls things towards me, etc etc. "But that many different directions!" He screams, holding up wooden blocks shaped like arrows.
Fletcher Etheridge
2022-12-22 09:57:53 +0000 UTCI gotta admit, I'm real happy you didn't come back with a big multi-paragraph thing like mine, haha. I don't know about you, but I wasn't having much (if any) fun with this one. I don't think we're going to change each other's minds because this isn't really a question of fact as much as it is a question of subjective opinion, so agree to disagree and leave it at that?
Logicked
2022-11-11 01:47:36 +0000 UTCWell, this all comes with the understanding that different people are annoyed by different things. So from that standpoint, I can accept that.
Ryusuta
2022-11-10 22:57:32 +0000 UTCI just meant it as an acknowledgement that I understood what you said, and that I don't have much else to say about it.
Logicked
2022-11-10 22:26:54 +0000 UTC"I mean, you publicly express your beliefs on things here, as well as on Youtube, right?" Yes, I respond to people who express their opinions publicly. Usually, this is an argument-vs-argument situation, not just self-back-patting on either of our parts - and if it becomes that, it becomes very annoying very fast. It's a discussion, with actual points made on both sides. This is not what a bumper sticker with a slogan is. It can't be. Imagine if my videos were 30 seconds long and just proudly said, "On this channel, I believe: There is no god; Evolution is true; Science is useful; Math is real; Intelligence is a virtue." Even as a channel trailer or something, that would be hard to watch. At that point, all I'd lack is the tipped fedora and calling everyone "m'lady". It's absurd. The problem is that slogans have zero content or functional purpose, at least when presented rapidfire like that. All a slogan is, when presented this way, is a way to advertise those things about yourself that you consider virtuous. It's the political equivalent of McDonalds' "I'm Lovin' It." "What do you feel the fundamental difference is between a person putting a sign up in their house and putting a video commentary/opinion up on Youtube?" One is a literal advertisement for the features of a particular human, targeted at everyone who drives past, and the other is an attempt to contribute something meaningful to a discussion, targeted at those interested. One is about attributes of the person, and the other is an attempt to engage with the subject under discussion. "They're still both just expressions of belief, aren't they?" Yes, and expressions of belief can be very obnoxious if done a certain way. Not exempting myself from this - I'm sure I've had my moments. But to pretend like all "expressions of belief" must be treated as equivalent, regardless of format or content, is strange. Equivalently permissible, sure, but not equivalently motivated or annoying.
Logicked
2022-11-10 22:25:05 +0000 UTCOk
Logicked
2022-11-10 21:48:33 +0000 UTCI don't really look at it and someone congratulating themselves on having beliefs so much as being assertive about expressing them. And of course, they feel their beliefs are correct, but that doesn't in and of itself present a problem. I mean, you publicly express your beliefs on things here, as well as on Youtube, right? And you believe you are correct on them. And strangers might stumble upon your videos just as someone might see a stranger's bumper sticker. But that doesn't mean you doing so is "cringe" or that you are saying "Look at me, I'm so awesome" for saying them, does it? Genuinely asking... What do you feel the fundamental difference is between a person putting a sign up in their house and putting a video commentary/opinion up on Youtube? I personally don't think that either one is necessarily a bad thing and I wouldn't think a person necessarily to be conceited for doing so. They're still both just expressions of belief, aren't they?
Ryusuta
2022-11-10 21:34:57 +0000 UTCNo, you said it made other people feel unsafe, or at least that it was directed at others who may feel unsafe: "putting out these signs was a way of hopefully helping other similarly-minded people feel more safe" ; "I just hope that it helps people feel more safe in my neighborhood." Either way, though, I'm confused by wanting to feel safe in an unsafe situation. Not that I understand feeling unsafe outside of a life-or-death situation either (or at least one that's likely to cause injury or loss), but if it's an unsafe situation that's not life-or-death, and I had the choice between feeling inaccurately safe and feeling accurately unsafe, I think I'd still want to feel unsafe. Otherwise I'd have an inappropriate emotion under the circumstances, which would lead me to have incorrect interpretations of threats, and potentially exhibit dangerously incongruous reactions. I don't think this is something that we'll change each other's minds about through arguments, and I doubt it's worth bothering to try, because we seem to just have very different reactions to stimuli.
Logicked
2022-11-10 21:20:20 +0000 UTC"I'd hope that you don't assume that someone thinks they're better than others just because they put out a sign or have a bumper sticker." I usually do, but then again, I live in a society where people haven't entered a lawn sign and bumper sticker arms race. You see it occasionally, but not enough for people to start trying to worry about competing in the lawn sign idea market. the very few people who do that sort of thing here are rarely overly popular, because of the association of that behaviour with an assertion of personal superiority. Every day, I become more glad to live where I live, because when people from other places tell me what their surroundings are like, I feel like it would drive me quite literally insane.
Logicked
2022-11-10 21:02:47 +0000 UTCAnother thought, and I know I shouldn't reply 3 times in a row, but... I don't grasp why a person would want to feel safe if they are in a situation that they believe is actually unsafe. That feeling that something isn't right and isn't safe is a survival mechanism. If I were standing face to face with a bear, I would not want to feel safe. Calm, maybe, but not safe, because that would mean my survival instincts wouldn't kick in, and I would not take appropriate steps. It's a confusing standard, to me. I've never heard of someone wanting to feel safe while actually unsafe.
Logicked
2022-11-10 20:59:20 +0000 UTCBesides, you said it makes people feel "unsafe". That's a far stronger stance, since it implies that the signs are tantamount to a threat of violence, which is something that would require police intervention. I just said it's annoying. I feel perfectly safe around such things.
Logicked
2022-11-10 20:48:47 +0000 UTCFinding something obnoxious is in no way the same thing as denying people the freedom to do it. There are plenty of things people do that I'd like them to stop, but I don't think the government should make them stop.
Logicked
2022-11-10 20:46:09 +0000 UTCSo you already had a chronic problem of people posting their opinions on lawn signs, and just joined in, but as a response to something that was already happening. In my ideal world, their obnoxious political virtue-signalling wouldn't have been a thing in the first place, so there would have been none of it to respond to. Do you also think that would have been better?
Logicked
2022-11-10 20:28:05 +0000 UTCNothing to do with upsetting neighbours. It's about the attitude in and of itself. It's about walking around with a billboard on your forehead saying, effectively, "I think I'm so awesome". Lawn signs, bumper stickers, t-shirts, etc. Nobody wants that sort of neighbour. If they want to do it, fine, but the rest of us are just going to raise an eyebrow and cross the street. Imagine if the sign simply said "I'm the best because of my beliefs." Imagine if that were printed on a t-shirt. It's the exact same behaviour as the people who cover their cars with Trump and Jesus stickers. Indistinguishable, just from a different side of politics and religion. It's really hard to take such a person seriously, when they don't even take themselves seriously enough to avoid such petty public self-congratulation.
Logicked
2022-11-10 20:20:50 +0000 UTCHonestly, you phrased things far more appropriately and accurately than I was able to. This was a much more well-written and fitting way of phrasing things.
Ryusuta
2022-11-10 19:59:39 +0000 UTCI don't see why there has to be a high bar to express a stance on an issue you feel strongly about. Do you feel that it's not okay to express something just because it might upset a neighbor? Or because it's "cringe,"? At what point do you just not say anything at all for fear of upsetting someone? It seems arbitrary. A political statement is often going to look "cringe" to someone that disagrees with it and/or is apolitical and doesn't like seeing it. That doesn't mean that there's anything wrong in general with expressing it.
Ryusuta
2022-11-10 16:52:12 +0000 UTCEdit: In retrospect, you're right that I could have characterized things more appropriately and accurately. I do apologize for not doing so.
Ryusuta
2022-11-10 16:44:12 +0000 UTCI agree that when someone broadcasts the "fuck you, deal with it" attitude through their neighbourhood to the people they are supposed to trust and rely on the most, it does not come off as open-minded, and doesn't do much to indicate that there would be a positive response to disagreement. Whether that attitude is justified or not I guess depends on the situation, but it'd have to clear a pretty high bar for me to think it is.
Logicked
2022-11-10 00:27:05 +0000 UTCMan who can't comprehend exponents and division has problems comprehending the very basics of gravity. How this person functions I really can't comprehend. Also, wholly unrelated to atheism.
Doug Bonomo
2022-11-09 23:32:58 +0000 UTCI suppose when you put it that way, I definitely see where you're coming from. Thank you again for the clarification.
Ryusuta
2022-11-09 23:19:58 +0000 UTCI'm of course open to disagreement on the virtue-signalling point. That part wasn't a strawman at all. I think that tossing around name-brand, empty-calorie slogans like that, even in videos or on Twitter, but especially in the way mentioned in the video, is more often than not just a way to try to proclaim moral superiority, without engaging with any point in anything like a meaningful way. I consider a lawn sign worse than Twitter in this regard, since it seems meant to set the resident apart as better than the neighbours. It reads as a passive-aggressive insult, and it's very hard to see this as anything but intentional. And this insult is delivered in spite of the fact that no more than a heap of catchphrases is presented as evidence that the resident really is some sort of Übermensch over the neighbouring plebs. I find this equally odious regardless of what's printed on the sign. Signs or bumper stickers for any given opinion, including ones like atheism that I of course deeply agree with, are profoundly irritating to me, and make me instantly suspicious of the quality of interaction I'd get with the person displaying them. It has the same energy as randomly starting to talk at Thanksgiving dinner to your Christian uncle about how you're smarter and a better person because you don't believe in god. There's a time and a place, and a way to approach the matter, and I think this is quite a long way from the right time, place, or way. If you see it differently, you are welcome to, and we can argue about it if you wish.
Logicked
2022-11-09 22:50:26 +0000 UTCJust to point out an inconsistency you may have missed Ryusta: if someone says "Fuck you if you have a problem with these things. They're how I feel. Deal with it." then I think you can't say it "in NO WAY implies they're not willing to hear other arguments and would react poorly to them." If your response to a counter argument is "fuck you if you have a problem with my position, just deal with it", you may be justified in feeling that way, but you're definitely not open to counter arguments.
Oliver Pickford Scienti
2022-11-09 22:38:12 +0000 UTCI apologize if I misunderstood your point on that regard. I wasn't intending to strawman you and I'm glad for the clarification. As far as the "obnoxious virtue-signalling" thing goes, I suppose we can leave it at that, since that is an opinion that isn't necessarily right or wrong. I don't personally find it obnoxious, but I can understand how some people might feel that way. In any case, I apologize for the misunderstanding and I withdraw my objection.
Ryusuta
2022-11-09 22:19:51 +0000 UTC"especially that they'd be the same people that would engage in cancel culture or other genuinely bad activities like that" This is not what I said. You accuse me of engaging in a "massive stereotype", while you engage in an actual massive strawman. You need to listen again. I said that in the world, there exist people who do these things. That is the extent of my statement. Anything else that you heard came from you, not from me. I do stand by my statement about it being obnoxious virtue-signalling, though.
Logicked
2022-11-09 21:55:24 +0000 UTCLogicked, I'm actually going to have to disagree with your characterization of the people that would decorate their homes with slogans like that being mostly virtue-signalling [[, and especially that they'd be the same people that would engage in cancel culture or other genuinely bad activities like that. I feel like that is a massive stereotype and a pretty unreasonable one at that.]] Edit: I misunderstood and mischaracterized what was being said here. I apologize for doing so. The thing is, some people very much like to express feelings in a public, visible way. That doesn't mean they're only doing it to virtue-signal. It means that they have an opinion they're not shy about expressing. And there are a large number of people that demonize people for saying those very same things that the person listed in their home. [[So my takeaway from that is that they are posting those things as a way of saying "Fuck you if you have a problem with these things. They're how I feel. Deal with it."]] Edit: Again, poorly phrased on my part. To put it another way, it's very much the same thing we all do on Youtube with videos like this. It's not an inherently bad thing and it in NO WAY implies they're not willing to hear other arguments and would react poorly to them. It simply means they are open and assertive with their opinions.
Ryusuta
2022-11-09 21:24:13 +0000 UTCI've heard a lot of people discredit gravity cause they need it to be fake. But this is the first I've heard someone call gravity a god. But what can you say about the guy who wants all of science and math to stop existing because it "fixes reality" and we need God to be doing things at every second. Also, these "We all have to get along" people bother me. It's basically saying "Don't challenge my opinions. They're so fragile I can't defend them"
Curtis Rogahn
2022-11-09 02:43:32 +0000 UTC
