Inner Circle Update for July 10 2019!

This is all answered in previous posts. We are 'stuck' (we aren't) paying for a side project because it was churning out too many red bank numbers. Developing a quicker side project would bring in extra funds and publicity needed to complete MATM.

MangoFishSocks

Ouch. That sounds like poor planning, and a waste of our time. Personally, I couldn't care less about Pure Onyx. I supported MATM, that's why I'm here. So spending money on Onyx is a literal waste for me. A lot of other game devs are able to set their tiers appropriately to adequately fund their single title. Why are we stuck paying for a side project while the main game that got us all here is on hold?

CrocoKyle

This has come up in a lot of the monthly update comment sections and they've made extensive posts about it. It's on hold while the team builds the smaller Pure Onyx project to secure funding for MATM.

MangoFishSocks

Am I the only one who feels like we haven't heard about MATM in like...months? No disrespect, but I've supported Ero for a long time because of MATM, not Onyx. Just my thoughts.

CrocoKyle

Wanted to think about this before posting. I'll reciprocate QuestionablyInsane statement, being on the fence but for a different reason. I'll use my own experience with the new lion king as comparison. The new adaptation is a spit and polish replica of the original story in a completely 3D rendered world. Visually the movie is drop-dead gorgeous and I’m sure any 3D artist would cream themselves just looking at it. So if the story is the same and the world looks amazing, why is the movie utterly soul-less. You don’t feel a thing going through the entire film and for some, me included the story is supposed to pull at the heart strings. I think it is strongly related to the super realism of 3D and the fact that relaying emotion on such 3D models is so bloody difficult that and how do you render a laughing 3D lion... Pure Onyx is about a badass fighting dangerous monsters that want to rape her. It's going to rely on visually showing the resistance, grit, surrender and sheer determination of the MC and those monsters. The concern is that this can be shown far easier in a 2D drawn setting. You guys have done some great stills in 3D with the visual redesign of MATM, but how do you guys feel about animating in this format? I see the bloodhound went on a diet, look-in lean and mean :D Slums look awesome!

Venus

Looks great! Hey... Curious about one thing: Now that you are doing 3d animations. Are you going to add back asymmetrical details to Onyx like her tattoos and knee pads that you had to remove because of Mirroring of 2d sprites?

QuestionablyInsane

Update on the 3D stuff :D. She's coming along quickly ^-^ https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/390230116996743169/599179185570971648/Onyx_3D_proc.jpg (Adding this to the bottom of the post since discord isn't generating a link)

I was a bit on the fence but then I saw what you had for the image and dang you nearly got your current art style simulated in 3D. So yeah that's very exciting! But yeah I'm also big on cell shading and I'm curious about how you're going about it? Are you using for lack of a consistent word... A shadow bias map that is making it so certain spots are always shaded on the model as well as other bits are always lit up... Also are you guys getting as anal about with it as Arc System and manually tweaking all the vertex normals? I would love a rundown on your workflow down the road! Also sounds like if you go full 3d you also can have the advantage of alternate costumes/ clothing damage... And more animations and also reuse certain H animations of Onyx with different enemies swapped out. I will say I'm mildly bummed you are moving away from Spine to go more traditional with your animations as Spine gives a certain flair to it's animations... But Also I think it's a wise choice with your art style and benefits.

QuestionablyInsane

Thanks ^-^ didn't realize it was 100 :D. We're very conscious about not losing the charm of the 2D. We're referencing Guilty Gear Xrd's techniques for how to get the right look. They've published a lot of documentation on how to achieve it. Ours won't look that good, nor does it need to since we don't need extreme closeups, but the techniques and lighting model are solid. For all the praise Bloodstained got, I thought their stylized 3D looked awful, so I definitely want to steer clear of that. About the combos, I'd like for some to offer movement (including vertical and retreat options), while others plant Onyx in place. Remember that enemies have collision and are physics based, so she won't just barrel through all of them. I agree with the difficulty thing -- I felt Dragon's Crown was too easy due to characters like the Amazon being able to evade the AI with no strategy involved.

Assuming things go well with it, we'll eventually transition to using all 3D models. It's not some special tech to convert the 2D assets, is just that we've figured out how to replicate the style in 3D, and with relatively little work :D.

I'm on the fence about the 3D change. The workflow improvement is something you drastically need with the development cycle already running pretty long, but the preview does show a loss in that unique style that you have with 2D. I encourage you to certainly experiment with it further, as I see the progress being very volatile: it could be terrific, or it could be terrible. I also think you should be careful with how far Onyx lunges forward with her combos. It could make gameplay very tedious or very easy very quickly. She could pass enemies, get surrounded by accidentally lunging into a group of enemies above or below her or bunch them up really easily. The combo looks good otherwise, though. Onyx can finally properly fight like she looks like she could. The Biohound looks very elegant aside from the teeth. I think you should switch it up a little from the dog-like Charger and change the teeth, giving the Biohound a more deer-like appeal. It would also allow you to hide the malevolence of the plethora of tentacles that look like an innocent herbivore's head. Slums look great, although the Parallax 3 preview has this odd cartoony look to it still. I'm guessing it's not done yet. ALSO. Happy 100th Inner Circle Update.

MangoFishSocks

Hmm the time savings on a long run sound good. But i will wait for the next playable test version to judge. dont get me wrong, yes it sounds good but in the years there where so many tech and artstyle changes i cannot count and every time i get used to it, bam new engine, new art. So i am curious yes, but not hyped.

so maybe for some clarification , the beginning of the post is stating that you are managing to adjust the engine where it can make the 2D assets 3D in dimension? This is actually a really cool workaround to the limitations that 2D generally has on hand; and this means that the game art style will swap to this new hybrid model than the Spine version of models? Sorry, its a lot to wrap my head around. The combo showcase makes me anticipatory of 2.5D and I can fully get behind that.

Speedyshamrock