The Hellblade 2 dillemna (and 9 other games we love)
Added 2024-05-28 07:01:03 +0000 UTC
We didn't get to our Summer Game Fest predictions in this episode because we had too many new games to talk about. So you'll hear that convo in this week's Besties.
We did, however, talk about a whopping 11 games, 10 of which we liked and 1 of which... inspired a good conversation.
Games discussed:
Frushtick's "Top 5" Pico-8 Games:
Free Dave the Diver Godzilla DLC
It's available for a limited time, presumably because of Godzilla's complicated licensing agreements outside of Japan.
Comments
This is an extremely niche opinion, and not one devs should consider from a financial standpoint, but: I’m an avid games fan who doesn’t play. I keep up on the news, watch playthrus, make my partner play games I want to see. HB1 is absolutely mind blowing to see as a playthru. It’s up there with my favorite books and movies as art that sticks with me and I keep coming back to. I know playthru isn’t an official art genre (but it’s not just a movie! Watching the player struggle and fail adds a whole other level) but if it was, HB1 would be a foundational classic and it sounds like HB2 might be great in that form too.
Katie LaBarbera
2024-06-18 20:19:20 +0000 UTCI just wanted to say that I really appreciate your take on games that you don't like. I understand the hesitation to say something negative about what other people like, but it doesn't feel like you're trashing something for the sake of trashing it. It's great to hear thoughtful critiques to better understand what makes games work.
Mixmaster Moose
2024-06-09 16:13:26 +0000 UTCBalatro! Or Wildfrost! ORRRR Marvel Snap!
Chris
2024-06-08 04:42:14 +0000 UTCLove the podcast y'all, keep it up! I just listened to this episode because I didn't get notified when it dropped. Probably just me skipping over or deleting my notifications lol, anyway loved this episode didn't love hellblade, it made me uneasy playing it.
Brad MacDonald
2024-06-06 21:52:11 +0000 UTCQuick question, I think you know who this is for! Recently got into slay the spire, I now have almost 100hours. What deck builder is next??
Overcooked cucumber
2024-06-03 14:10:14 +0000 UTCHey besties. Thanks for all of the content and Yall are something that I look forward to every week. I wanted to know if anyone has had the chance to check out Abiotic Factor? It is a first person game that is inspired a ton by half life as you are a scientist on their first day in an underground facility that goes bananas. It can be single player or coop. Coop I what I prefer as my brother and I have been doing a play through of it. The game throws you for a ton of loops with crazy mechanics and gameplay. It combines survival mechanics, horror and some Metroidvania mechanics. The world building is also insane. Reminds a lot of dark souls 1. This came out in May with early access and has been sitting at overwhelmingly positive reviews on steam but there is not much talk about. Would love to hear yalls thoughts. Thanks!
Taylor
2024-06-01 23:23:29 +0000 UTCI have enjoyed the Hellblade games. I can understand the cognitive problem of trying to "bucket" them. They aren't Walking Simulators -- They aren't really puzzle games -- They aren't really action games. I can't listen to a podcast or music while I play them... Honestly, the closest comparison I have to these games is Journey and similar titles from That Game Company. There is something that I need to do, but it is only a vehicle to make me feel something.
Andrew Rogers
2024-05-31 16:58:58 +0000 UTCDamn, I specifically came to see if anyone had brought this up to him. 😂
The Last Raneff
2024-05-29 21:08:34 +0000 UTCThank you! And yes! The more I learn about big company structures, the more I'm amazed any art can come from this org charts/biz models
Chris
2024-05-29 20:36:56 +0000 UTCThanks for the reply! That's a fair point, I never really thought about the company structure in that way. I suppose I'm saying how I wish big companies operated as opposed to reality 🤣 Love the show btw!
Grant Cameron
2024-05-29 16:59:58 +0000 UTCThis is definitely the kind of game that would benefit from a GameFAQs-style guide (complete with a high effort ASCII art logo). Something to allow you to explore but ctrl+f for a hint/solution when needed. I think the sense of exploration is what helps draw you in to the story. But I tend to have trouble engaging with playthroughs, if that's not the case for you then it may be a solid option.
Noah Wood
2024-05-29 16:47:23 +0000 UTCIt feels like my dream game... except I'm awful at puzzles. Im seriously considering just watching a playthrough
Chris
2024-05-29 16:30:47 +0000 UTCThis is a really interesting POV about Microsoft funding risky games, and I think you make a great case for your argument. For me, I think I have lower expectations in termswhat's possible within a company like Microsoft. I'd love for a trillion dollar company to use its wealth to fund greater risk on stuff like games, but I also know that's not how these companies work. For a few reasons. One is that the funding of risk goes into opportunities with far higher potential ROI, like A.I. Microsoft will gladly lose hundreds of millions in the short term if it makes them trillions more in the future. A game can't offer that. But more importantly to Xbox is that the division operates like a separate company with its own P&L. So it wouldn't be Microsoft covering the risk of smaller games, but Xbox covering that risk. And with Xbox still number three in the market, its big IP like Halo failing to meet expectations, and a massive spend on all these properties, it is ironically and sadly poorly positioned for risk exposure. (It sounds like ABK and Bethesda may have their own mini-sub businesses too, further complicating this.) I think your point still stands: Microsoft could restructure how it operates. But with a board and share holders satisfied with their current approach (or simply afraid of massive change) I don't think that will happen in the foreseeable future. It would also be a very difficult way for a company of its scale to operate.
Chris
2024-05-29 16:29:33 +0000 UTCI really liked HB1, but I played it at a time where that type of game really clicked with me. When the 2nd was revealed I had this feeling of "Oh Cool" but the more I saw, I think I realized that that type of game just wasn't what I wanted from a game anymore. I really wish Microsoft did a better job with marketing it because I'm sure there's an audience for it. It might not appeal to me anymore, but I think it's cool to see a game like it get made, faults and all. A game I really hope to see y'all check out: Nine Sols. A sekiro-inspired metroidvania that just released on 5/29. It's self-described as sekiro-inspired (with some pretty sizeable differences to the combat). It's from the same devs of Detention and Devotion. I could see it really going over well in a Resties episode, but could see it fitting in an episode with the whole crew.
Rooster
2024-05-29 15:40:38 +0000 UTCI remember playing HB1 while I was doing schooling for the military and had a bunch of time to myself in a hotel room and that game blew me away. I also remember watching some dev interviews on it and they were saying that even though they were an Indie studio, they wanted to show that you can make AAA looking games. I understand that these style of games may not be for everyone, but I do enjoy a good narrative rich game that doesn't ask alot of its audience so I can sit back and enjoy a story sometimes. I know I could watch a movie, but it's not the same feeling to me. I get a stronger emotional bond to the main character when I play a game than watch a movie. That's my take on it at least. Love you guys and what you do!
AWildBrozerker
2024-05-29 12:50:17 +0000 UTCI'd love to hear Plante's thoughts on Lorelei and the Laser Eyes, if he has anything to add. I think it draws a lot from both David Lynch and Federico Fellini and I'd be interested in what he made of it.
Noah Wood
2024-05-29 11:49:32 +0000 UTCFirst off, please have more discussions like this - i'd love to hear you interview game devs and discuss these kinds of topics. Or if not game devs other journalists who have different takes. I take issue with a couple of things you say about "irresponsible green light" of some games. I think it's interesting you say this against the backdrop of massive game publishers laying off several good people at good studios. If we really do allow companies like microsoft to buy out lots of smaller devs - the intent should be to absorb risk. Sure you can have your giant AAA games which are guaranteed safe bets to make you lots of money - but this money should go back into smaller studios you own to allow them to take big swings. I don't think this is irresponsible. What's irresponsible is instead taking that money to make fat cats as rich as possible at the top and then firing people/punishing companies for taking those risks. The other thing I would like to say is I just think this is a different kind of game - comparisons to God of War make no sense to me, they both have a very different mission and intent. I know you prefaced it by saying the studio size is very different, this then invalidates that argument completely. I'm amazed what they achieved with this game for a small studio. Is it a problem that some games are less interactive than others? not really. I totally think there's a space for both. This obviously falls into the category of interactive story telling. Where gameplay takes a back seat. As technology develops I think we will see more of these, Ninja Theory is just leading the charge (and has been driving it since heavenly Sword! Finally a word on technology - it's not as simple as using this mocap tech in other bigger games. With software engineering there's always a balance with cpu/gpu/mem resources, i'd imagine (but i'm not expert - software engineer - not a game dev) that having the resolution / framerate of mapping this kind of performance takes more resources - ones which could be used for other tasks. When you think about everything an open world modern day game needs to track at all times, that's gonna take a large chunk of resources. This game only needs to play out in the here and now which allows it to use more resources of the machine for that. Anyway please discuss more - I love these topics.
Grant Cameron
2024-05-29 08:10:26 +0000 UTCI’m really enjoying my time with Senua’s Saga, more so than I did with the first one. The more direct and clear story fits me better and the combat, while limited is one of the best feeling combat I played in years. Every stab or block feels heavy and realistic in a video game sense. I also want to give them credits for skipping the Ui more or less and not having a constant “press A” when in front of interactions. It feels a little like the early promotions from Microsoft and expectations on a more AAA game, when it’s clearly a smaller team in a shorter timespan, is what most people are having a problem with. If you like well looking “walking sims”, this is by far the best one.
Gundeman
2024-05-29 07:43:52 +0000 UTCJust want to say how much we appreciate all the comments on this one. We always aspire to be a video game book club, and the comments on the Patreon genuinely feel like we're having that experience. Lots of different perspectives and opinions! And not only are folks *not* antagonizing one another, but the conversation is giving us a richer appreciation of the game. Y'all are great!
Chris
2024-05-29 05:57:13 +0000 UTCI... am tempted lol
Chris
2024-05-29 05:55:00 +0000 UTCI'm about halfway through Hellblade 2 and to my surprise, I'm really enjoying it. I played Hellblade 1 for the first time a few weeks ago, in preparation for this game. The audio for HB1 was awesome, and the graphics still hold up pretty well. However I found most of the symbol puzzles to be really tedious and not fun, and the combat to get really repetitive by the end. Also, I found the story, while engaging, to be a little confusing as it was told out of order and I could not tell what was real/what wasn't I came into HB2 apprehensive, given the divisive reception and folks saying it was more of the same/not evolved from the 1st one. The beginning of the game doesn't help, and I agree with the podcast that it's a slog. It wasn't until the second chapter that I really got into it. Combat wise, I really like how they dialed up the "cinematic" animations in the fight scenes, and I've even found myself withholding my use of the "focus" ability unless absolutely necessary because it breaks the immersion. The visuals are gorgeous (I rarely use photo mode in games but with this one I'm constantly taking screenshots). The symbol puzzles appear much less in this game so far at least. I've found the story easier to follow and as such more engaging. I think many were (rightfully) hoping that HB2 would build on the combat/puzzles of HB1, and were disappointed that in some cases it opted to dial them back. But for me the parts they dialed back I didn't really enjoy in the first game, so the result is a more focused experience for me. I've been playing it in chunks so It's like a lightly interactive TV mini-series.
Evan Moore
2024-05-29 05:09:55 +0000 UTCThe statement from the Hellblade director about graphics seems especially weird when you look at the games that get big and last, and they’re almost never the ones with the high fidelity graphics. Like this year we have Animal Well, which is like 300mb and still absolutely draws you into its world. Last year we had Baldur’s Gate 3 and TOTK, which looked good, but they weren’t exactly pushing the envelope into new graphical spaces. In fact, even when I play a game with high fidelity graphics like your God of War or Horizon, the appeal doesn’t last. Like at first it’s like, “Oh wow!”… but eventually that feeling fades and I’m just in the game. In fact, I’d say that the pursuit of high fidelity graphics is one of the biggest reasons the games industry is as volatile as it is. So it’s disappointing to hear the developer try to aim for that as their design goal.
Devin White
2024-05-29 03:48:01 +0000 UTCThis is definitely more of a “Reader Mail” question since it doesn’t fit anywhere in particular but, Plante, I have to know if you’re going to try the Nier Automata wine - https://x.com/spbrando/status/1795488188443881916?s=46&t=EHegwOywk3GLKKLSi8PX7w
greyandgory
2024-05-29 02:58:06 +0000 UTCI totally agree with you two on Hellblade 2. I have been looking forward to this game for years. I was extremely disappointed in the lack of gameplay, and found the story to be so much less personal and compelling than the first game. I was really hoping for more in depth puzzles and gameplay and it felt like they took a huge step backwards in favor of the visuals. I played the entire game to give it a fair chance and got through it in 5 hours, and I have to say probably more than half of those hours were not fun but just pushing through.
Grace
2024-05-28 22:55:04 +0000 UTCI have a "Reader Mail" question for y'all, either for Resties or Besties: Help, I have fallen down the Animal Well! On my way down I have gone "full Russ" and made sure to completely avoid any spoilers, tips and hints. I've talked a few friends into joining me on my journey so we can all experience this amazing game together, but we've hit a snag: we're all so paranoid about spoilers that we can't figure out how to talk about where we're at in the game! How do we find ways to check on each other's progress, share the joys of our explorations, and generally share in the brilliance of this game without giving anything away?
L.B. Morse
2024-05-28 22:42:59 +0000 UTCI think Hellblade 2 is victim of genre expectation vs what it is. As Russ said compared to God of War it is lacking. Except I would not compare it to that. I would compare it to a games like Journey, Firewatch etch.. Just you know with less walking and platforming, and more 3rd person combat. Which isn't typical for most story focused games as most of those games don't typically have anything like what I would consider normal gameplay. I would even go so far as to compare it to a visual novel except maybe it's more like an interactive movie. Which does come with a unique risk like Plante was saying. To throw a big budget at an art house movie that is only going to emotionally resonate with some. Is a massive risk, but it's also what Hollywood does with Oscar bait movies and it can be successful. Though that may not necessary be a good thing depending on your opinion of the Oscar's and those types of movies.
Josh Andrews
2024-05-28 22:34:17 +0000 UTCAt first listening to Plante connect Crow Country's visuals to printed screenshots, I was a little skeptical, but I looked up the game and it's SO TRUE. Immediately gave me early gameinformer flashbacks
Emily
2024-05-28 19:20:27 +0000 UTCThis is correct, i remember an article from 2021 with their creative director. In that article he mentioned they where working on a slice of the game before going into it full swing.
Daniel Nielsen
2024-05-28 16:22:34 +0000 UTCI really loved the first Hellblade game. I went back and replayed it about a year ago, and found myself enjoying the combat a lot more than I'd expected. Despite the relatively simple mechanics, the battles in the game had a lot more depth than was apparent on the surface, especially as you experimented with combos and mixed in standard melee attacks while managing multiple enemies. Use of the Furies' voices and binaural audio to alert you when an enemy was about to strike you from your flank made it feel like they were closely integrated into the combat as well. Hellblade 2 strips back more than I think many players of the original may remember. In addition to restricting fights to a single opponent at a time, the game fully wrests camera control from the player and significantly limits your movement. Sprinting attacks and melee/push moves from the first game are both gone as well, removing the strategy those aspects added. The use of the Furies in combat is much more limited to, essentially just using them to tell you when you're badly hurt and annoyingly reminding you again and again to use your focus ability or parry attacks. Combat does look great, yes, and the transitions from one opponent to the next feel so choreographed is impressive. But Hellblade 2 really feels like a SMALLER game than its predecessor due to how simplified this aspect was. It's disappointing, because while it did get a bit repetitive toward the end, I think the combat in the first game was really good for a title of that length. Ninja Theory has had genuinely great combat in the past, too, with titles like DmC or Enslaved: Odyssey To The West. Here, it's so simple and lacking in player engagement that it feels like it overstays its welcome within the first couple of hours.
BucklingSwashes
2024-05-28 15:08:39 +0000 UTCHey Resties, are you familiar with Sockpop Collective? They release new indie games every month from a collective of indie devs. They have a Patreon that gets you the games every month for a great deal but you can also just get them on Steam/itch piece meal. Would love to hear you talk about some of their releases sometime.
Addison
2024-05-28 14:36:49 +0000 UTCI am enjoying Hellblade 2 (about 2-3 hours in). I think expectations going in have a role in that. It feels like the experience Ninja Theory wanted to make and it is executed with such high technical proficiency. I recommend Digital Foundry’s review for an analysis of the technical aspects. I agree the opening credits sequence is very slow and I ran into the invisible walls often in that first environment. I’ve notice those issues less as I have progressed. Even though I am enjoying my time, I hope they can strike a better balance of gameplay in future titles. One correction, Ninja Theory’s studio head said development did not start in full until into 2020 when they finished Bleeding Edge. So it had closer to a 4 year development cycle vs the at least 5 year Chris mentioned. With an 80 person team, I imagine it cost a fraction of a God of War or other similar AAA.
Matthew Aitken
2024-05-28 14:22:11 +0000 UTCIt's interesting that Hellblade 2 seems like a letdown, and maybe it's about genre expectations. My feeling is that we might be expecting it to be God of War because of the visual fidelity and presence of combat, but what if we categorize it as an atmospheric, story-driven walking simulator? Doesn't it fit that genre pretty well?
Richard Snyder
2024-05-28 13:44:56 +0000 UTCI managed to carve out some time and finish Hellblade 2 this weekend and I actually loved it. I agree that they obviously overemphasized visuals to the point that it left a beautiful world which felt like it should be open, but was very clearly on rails. Once I accepted that I was playing what was effectively an interactive film I enjoyed it much more. That said, I played Senuas Saga to revisit her headspace and story and I feel like the game did an amazing job of evoking that reality. By the end of the game I was confused about reality, and disoriented, and emotionally charged in several different ways, and for once that felt right because that's what Senua is experiencing as well.
Patrick Riney
2024-05-28 13:27:07 +0000 UTCI sent a DM to SFB Games' Adam Vian, Crow Country's creative director, who confirmed that game magazines and guides specifically were an inspiration, which is especially prominent in the marketing material. "I do love a blurry magazine screenshot," he said. Great episode! You make a very good point about Hellblade. I've been eyeing Arctic Eggs and 1000xRESIST, really looking forward to playing them. Hoping for a crossover called 1000 Arctic Eggs Resist.
Sweet Wizzle
2024-05-28 12:51:06 +0000 UTCI actually really enjoyed hellblade 2, but I can certainly understand everyone's trepidations around it. I think this game just released too late. If this would have been a launch title, replaced the medium on Xbox's launch lineup, it would have been a slam dunk. But in a post Alan Wake 2 world, it's hard for something like hellblade 2 to feel special
Joe Moore
2024-05-28 12:18:50 +0000 UTCI loved Hellblade and was very excited for Hellblade 2, thinking the same that the first was a great story driven tech demo for the studio, looking for an Assassins Creed type jump from 1 to 2, but I'll probably still play it. I was hoping you guys would talk about Alaskan Eggs, something about that game really caught my attention so I should probably buy it now
logan jilek
2024-05-28 12:09:28 +0000 UTCI say this having only played Hellblade 1 and not 2 yet but I never expected Hellblade 2 to be anything other than an experience with the same gameplay light, story driven, visually focused stuff as the first one. I loved Senua’s Sacrifice because it looked and sounded incredible and I was fine with everything else around it that other games clearly do better. For me, having the correct expectations for any form of entertainment is key to my enjoyment and appreciation of the experience I get from it.
MetaRidleyScott
2024-05-28 11:33:58 +0000 UTCI started listening to this a little before 5am when I was feeding my baby. My dumbass thought they were talking about Stellar Blade for WAY too long.
Geoff N
2024-05-28 11:31:24 +0000 UTCContinuing the egg theme, check out the recent playdate catalog addition, Touch Egg!
Shart Carbuncle
2024-05-28 11:11:39 +0000 UTCHey besties! I took a recommendation from a recent episode and bought a Miyoo mini plus. I’m obsessed with it. I already downloaded one of the more popular game packs and have a ton of games ready to go, but I’m feeling a little frozen up with what to actually play. I’ll be playing a lot of older Pokémon games for sure but I’m wondering what are y’all’s must plays for this hilarious tiny game boy. Thanks!
Joey Kennedy
2024-05-28 10:21:34 +0000 UTC
