Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 6x19 “Seeing Red” FULL REACTION

I've always thought it would be funny if a reactor spent the entire time referring to Andrew as "Tucker's brother".

UTU49

"Is it Andrew or was it his brother?" I couldn't stop laughing for five minutes.

Dipper

I really meant to say that... ... but then I just got really busy.

UTU49

Sigh... Time for The Spring Poking already?

I was somewhat looking forward to, but mostly dreading this episode. On an emotional level, this is one of the two most difficult episodes to watch for me (the other one being "The Body," of course). There's so much I wish I could say, but I can't/won't because of possible spoilers. So for now all I will say is take heart and keep pressing on.

Steve Quast

The gun, makes it real. It really grounds the show. It's very raw.

Brent Justice

I feel like this is very spoilery. I would suggest editing or deleting.

Heather Flores-Ricks

Same. I'm putting it off and watching more fluffy reactions. Maybe tomorow.

Rachael

Thank you! I don't think the trio are really the villains this season, but more side characters. I can understand how it can be perceived that way, though. They definitely want to be villains, but aren't the big bad for this season. This episode hits me in the feels each time. I appreciate you watching this!

Grace

I've tried posting this comment so many times, it kept disappearing. Someone please let me know if it actually appears multiple times in this thread and I just can't see it.

KT

The Trio works for me partially because of the time period they exist in, and what they say about our culture. Hollywood has a long history of not taking the Adorkable Misogynist (got that term from the YT channel Pop Culture Detective) seriously, and that fact has a direct negative effect on society. To portray such an insular and repressed but privileged group as both malignantly harmful and relentlessly pathetic was really the best way to go about it, and was basically unheard of in 2002. It is ungodly easy to romanticize villains, even if you don't agree with them, even if you hate them. So when you write villains that reflect the actual villains of our world, you should try your best to not accidentally make them cool in any way, lest incels view them as underdogs. Portrayals of Nazis as formidable and charismatic like Hans Landa in Inglorious Bastards doesn't actually counteract radicalization, it makes burgeoning white supremacists want to emulate him because he possesses a lot of swagger and conviction. It's portrayals of Nazis as goofy and nasty that actually subconsciously discourages people from being Nazis. It's totally fine to hate the Trio btw, plenty of people do and I completely understand, but I am personally so glad they exist and were written in this specific way. They don't become more dangerous because they become more powerful (they have pretty much the same level of power as when they first appeared), but because of their toxic ideology and attitudes combined with escalating rage. Their nerdiness is not endearing and does not counteract their hateful beliefs and actions. In fact, it's a catalyst for that. Warren is Alek Minassian, he is Elliot Rodger. And Andrew and Jonathan are the boys that feed his ego and enable him to act on his hate. It is not Warren's cunning that kills Katrina and Tara, he didn't "mean" to kill either. It's his rage.

KT

I always felt they did a good job with Jonathan this season. Over the years we have seen his desire to have friends/be part of a group. His journey through this season starts with him putting that need over the morality of his actions. But we have seen him try to draw the line (Flooded: not wanting to kill Buffy, his reaction to the death of Katrina) and in this episode he actual takes action twice. Once was helping Buffy smash the orbs but the other is when he stopped Warren from killing Xander at the Bronze. Because I really believe , as someone who was revealing in a strength he could not control, Warren would have killed Xander if Jonathan hadn't mentioned the time. This is not to forgive any of Jonathan's previous actions. And yes, he could have stood up the the others directly. but I think he is still fearful of being alone/friendless so he helped Xander and Buffy with the small amount of courage he could muster. I think the question is, now that Warren has abandoned him will he change and start to base his decision on morals rather that that need to fit in with his friends.

Quantoto

Long time watcher, first time commenter etc. First: I absolutely adore your reviews, never ever change. Re: The Trio, I honestly don’t like them either, but I think the reason they bother me so much is because they aren’t the sort of fantastical evil we’re used to on Buffy—they’re the normal, banal kind of evil we all often have to face in the real world, and are that much more uncomfortable for it. In a way, I think Joss ended up foreshadowing the incel movement with these three, and that feels both particularly raw and prescient right now. I think they’re a interesting choice, but it’s a “this is too real for me” kind of situation when it comes to being able to enjoy them as I watch, even though logically I can appreciate the experiment with the kind of bad guys Buffy had to face.

The juxtaposition blows chunks. I'm so glad that my life has included a reason to say the above sentence.

UTU49

Y'know, I like this episode less and less, every time I see it.

Rob Z

Ah. This is here. Plus 100+ comments. All I'm gonna say is I haven't rewatched this since it aired, incl reactions to it, and from that moment in I watched Buffy with the remote in my hands because honestly I was quite young (14ish) and this was quite scarring. I've been meaning to rewatch it via reactions. The willingness has not materialized yet. 😵

Pate

I kept hoping he wouldn't look up and see her!

Pam Nail

Pretty sure she's checking HIM out. :P Who wouldn't?

SweetSummit

You'd never suspect in a show about vampires and demons and super natural stuff that a main character was gonna die in a random act of gun violence, makes it more realistic, happens to people in real life all the time.

Cameron Rayburn

Nice. It also probably that realisation where she was pleading him to stop and then when she finally gained the strength to push him off, she saw just how messed up their relationship was, or at least saw just how messed up she was to allow him to do those things to her. Like perhaps, physically, it wasn't as painful as it was emotionally to really push him off and to not let him in. Like even the time when she broke it off with him, you could see she was still struggling and here, you can see her doing that to the full extent. It's like when he thought he had the chance, he really went for it, while she was making sure he didn't. Since she was not in the best state emotionally, she definitely struggled to fight. Kind of like how she struggled with the vampire in "The Body." It reminded me of that 'scene.

Shierra C Styver

Been looking forward to this reaction since "Tabula Rasa" which was when the Tillow ship sank and went into a black hole... and then came back to life episodes earlier and sailed away throughout this episode until the very end... where it could no longer be... I mean, that bullet went straight to the heart there 😭 I still recall just staring at the screen for a couple minutes, jaw dropped, unable to speak thinking , 'wtf just happened' Oh and the whole Spike thing 😡🤬 Man, you should check out AfterShowReacts reaction to this episode and then the one after. The finale is definitely epic but these last 3 episodes definitely make up for this gut punch of an episode. 👍

Shierra C Styver

This episode is a tough one to get through. I can feel your raw emotions and understand where you're coming from. I don't think I'd call the Trio 'innocent nerds' however. Warren had his ex-girlfriend as an unwilling sex slave he shared with his friends, and her 'accidental' death is exactly how a LOT of real life deaths happen. A domestic dispute getting out of hand, an angry spouse/bf/lover losing control rarely 'mean' to kill. It's still horrific and disgusting when they do. I wouldn't call it hapless, I'd call it showing the real, darker nature of humanity. Likewise, he didn't show up with a gun for nothing. He went with the clear intent to murder another person. That also happens in reality, bystanders getting shot (even people thinking they're safe in their own houses have been killed by stray bullets). I think it makes a good villain like that. Spike is a tough one. The soulless thing really is exactly a mimic of a psychopath, someone whose brain is damaged/never developed that part of the brain. It's difficult to understand where to put it when you have someone over here with a normal functioning brain who commits a sexual assault, who is capable of empathy and understanding how they're behaviors are destructive and traumatic to another, compared to someone who sees other humans as one dimensional, has no comprehension of the pain and trauma they're causing, so in one way, can't understand the full consequences of their actions even though they know society has deemed this wrong, they don't have that morality to lead them. They need to be held accountable as well, but it's interesting to question just where to put that kind of person in the grand scheme of things. With Spike, he does seem to have the ability to care about another person to some extent, but to what extent that is, I don't know. The Judge in series 2 mentioned that Dru and Spike had some humanity in them where as Angelus didn't, and I always think it comes down to Spike's human personality, the parts of him that were passionate and romantic and full of love that held over into his soulless, demon form, but again, to what extent that is, it's hard to say. There's NO excusing his behaviors. It is somewhat satisfying to see that look on his face though when he does seem to realize he's gone too far. It's a complicated issue and I can understand why people have such opposing and passionate feelings on it though and your own feelings on it aren't wrong either.

Jayna

I don't feel like watching this. :(

UTU49

What if we think he was ALWAYS irredeemable?

Bisibia

The way Spike is written is pretty interesting. One way to look at of not having a soul is psychopaths. About 0.5% of people are full psychopaths, thus 40million total in the world, and while lots of them are serial killers and even worse they are the leaders of our world and CEOs that willingly destroy humanity, there still are lots of psychopaths in all fields of life that are not monsters. Nothing works with psychopaths, not even decades long of therapy, not even a little bit. Something can revert them back to being 100% selfish and without empathy. Spike is a lot like this, but I don't think Spike is incapable of empathy based on the story, but he is capable of getting rid of that empathy at will. Perhaps his soul is effecting him through the ether somehow, or something like that. That is the reason why I don't consider Buffy being completely crazy, she felt it, like we all. And that made her and us make errors in our judgement when it comes to Spike. He has capacity to empathy, at least at some form, but that empathy isn't in control and could be wiped away at any moment. Thus ultimately Xander is right, like he always is when it comes to lecturing Buffy. His decision not to tell Buffy about Angel potentially getting save in Becoming part 2 was the only sensible choice, and telling Buffy would have only made it more likely that all would have gone to hell. Xander while certainly flawed character, is the one that tells the hard truths in this show. But for some reason they always had to mask these truths superficially as Xander being shady or jealous or something like that. In any case, Buffy really phucked up when it comes to Spike. And based on how Buffy had sex with Spike, "you were an animal... wanna see the bitemarks" are just couple of examples, it's Buffy who schooled Spike that she likes it violent, and Spike liked it violent already. So this rape scene is completely hypocritical and manipulative. Buffy suddenly is like weak grandma when this scene begins and her actions totally contradict of what we know of Buffy. So I really hate this scene because of that manipulation, it's totally unnecessary and it only works because those violent sex scenes are not shown. Buffy also in a way raped Spike in one episode, she didn't stop while Spike asked her to stop, she didn't leave when he asked her to leave, and she used strong force to get what she wanted.

Jussi Vatanen

This season is hard to watch because unlike most shows where characters make bad decisions early on, they decided to wait until season 6 to make everyone do terrible things. By that point, you love them so much it is hard to watch them do these horrible things. It hurts that Xandar leaves Anya. It hurts that Spike does that to Buffy, but Buffy also used Spike for the previous episodes. It hurts that Willow hurts Dawn. All of these things hurt. And I get it. I get that the trio really are just annoying to watch. They are awkward, incompetent, and annoying. Edit: But I love what this season does. I think it is brilliant personally.

Angela Colon

Buffy can blame herself 99% of what happened. Xander was totally right of what he said, yet again, but somehow this show always has to paint Xander as being asshole when he is saying those things. First time I saw Buffy at 20yr old, I really didn't understand Xander's actions, but when I found this show again at 35yrs old, and after multiple rewatches, Xander is most of the time 100% correct. Though Xander is really flawed person, which isn't surprise when you account his background and the fact that he was and in a way still is a social outcast. But the fact that he has no other qualities but his heart and commitment to Buffy and the cause is what makes him so powerful character. But they should have showed that little more on the superficial level as well, as it's really frustrating to see so much hate toward Xander. Buffy is really flawed person too, but she eventually owns her mistakes and flaws. That's one important reason why I love this show. Though I would have liked to see some of her flaws shown on the superficial level so that more people would understand that. Buffy is a show about growing up. And pretty much nothing is more important than owning your mistakes and flaws and trying to learn from them and become better. Buffy does that, but in order to do that, you must be having flaws and do mistakes. Now many of those mistakes are being blamed over to other parties, and sure they are guilty also, but it's Buffy that we are focusing the most. I love season 6 for finally showing the flaws of Buffy and Willow. This season while having many weak episodes, is finally elevating the show into new heights in the "metaphysical truth department".

Jussi Vatanen

Spike was introduced in season 2 as a rapist and murderer who enjoyed torturing people railroad spikes. He told Dawn in season 5 a story about killing a child and her entire family and clearly enjoyed reminiscing about it. Now people want to act like he's irredeemable because of what he did to Buffy? Strange.

Tania

Look, I'm not excusing Spike, what he did was horrendous. However, think back, how did his sexual relationship with Buffy start? It was a violent, vicious fight in the house that fell down. Their intimacy has always been mingled with violence and hurting each other. Also, remember season 3? His devotion to getting Dru back with the approach of 'torturing her till she likes me again'. He thinks the more you hurt someone, the more you care for them.

HuntingSwan

I never realized how intense the gay subtext was in this episode regarding Andrew and Warren until rewatching it now.

My thoughts exactly! ❤️

Stephen Mintac

Exactly!

Stephen Mintac

Well, it depends on what you mean by "fans". Obviously I don't agree with anything the trio does, but I would consider myself a "fan" of them. They totally worked for me. They were funny to watch and, at times, they were horrid to watch. They made this season so dark, gritty, and yet interesting. They're one part of why season 6 is my favorite season. Without Dead Things or Seeing Red showing such important issues, this season might not have made such an impact on me. I'm glad they were a thing, as much as I dislike Warren.

Prue

A lot of people forget that Spike doesn't have a soul, the chip is holding him back, that's all. He still can't understand love, and he can't be in love with Buffy in the way he wants cause he has no soul. So the rape scene is intense, but it makes sense because he has no moral compass. AS he says, he's not a monster or a man. The chip doesn't allow him to be the monster he was, but the lack of a soul doesn't allow him to be a man. He wants to love Buffy, but he can't figure out why he can't love her right. He is having a conflict, there's a paradox inside him he can't overcome and he sees it, he's aware of it. It's very deep when you really look at it. He genuinely wants to fix himself but can't in his current state. So he has left, to go do something. Interesting. Let's see where that goes.

Brent Justice

Oh damn... watching this as soon as I finish feeding the Pugs. Lol

Stephen Mintac

You are one of my favorite reactors. I think you’re incredibly genuine and so funny. I am sorry that people have spoiled major episodes for you. I hope that dies down so you can finish watching the series on your terms. All the best from NY.

Kathleen F

I remember years ago when a certain character died on the 100 (I won't say the name for people who might have not seen it, but it happened in almost the exact way with a similar storyline so Liam should know who I'm talking about.) I remember watching reactions to that and some reactors going "This is like Tara all over again!" Liam just happened to see The 100 first instead but yeah that moment brought up so many emotions from this show even so many years later. 😭

Jenn Rose

knowing your reaction to the death of buffys mom, this episode is the reason i joined patreon, also try and remember the pay off from the useless nerds is that the least effective bad guys, the ones that you laugh off as pathetic have the capacity to be the remorselessly evil, and in contrast Spike an evil vampire nearly did something terrible and even he recoiled from what he almost did, even after the stupid jet packs and hapless antics we have a true villan not because we have a classic power hungry bad guy or someone hell bent on world domination, or an evil souless vampire but its just a random guy who is rotten to the core, Warren is the most realistic villan in the show and thats why its a great story

He figured Spike was upstairs and he didn't see anyone in Buffys bedroom, (door wide open, no light), but saw a light on in the bathroom. I agree opening the bathroom door might be a little intrusive, but also who doesn't lock the bathroom door if they don't want to be interrupted? It's clear their friendship doesn't have bathroom boundaries.

Scott Rabie

I LOVE Spike as a character, but I can never defend him. He's proven in the last few episodes that no matter how much good he does in the name of trying to make Buffy happy, he has no other good in him. This is one of the reasons I always defend Xander against him... especially in the previous episode. Xander knew, like with Angel, Spike was always gonna do something evil. The rest of them should have known too. It was in him, and it wasn't gonna stay buried forever. I don't think, at any point, Spike became a better person than he was. He has no empathy. His soul doesn't stop him from doing evil, his brain does... and only because he's smart enough to know he will lose Buffy if he shows his evilness. Crush, in season 5, is the perfect example of this. He let Dru kill those people, then he drank one. The ONLY reason he turned on Dru was to prove that he loved Buffy... it had nothing to do with Dru murdering people, or him feeling remorse. He just wanted Buffy. He's such a great character, but his actions are indefensible.

Bisibia

I gotta say something about Buffy and Spike and their toxic relationship. Attempted rape is (duh) wrong and is challenging if ever possible to forgive. But I think in Buffy's headspace, she partially blames herself. She shouldn't though, it's 0% her fault. But I'm pretty sure what she's thinking is how much she used him, let him cross those lines repeatedly, engage in very violent trysts with some BDSM thrown in. And she gave him an expectation that she would always let him in as long as he pulled off that evil charm. I don't agree with it, but I understand that perspective.

Jarrod Wild

Nice to see Liam's Whedon radar is on full power. I too was a little suspicious to suddenly see Amber Benson in the opening credits.

Jarrod Wild

The one and only time I saw this episode was when it aired. I can't watch it again. Thank you for putting the afterthoughts in a separate video.

the scene reminds me of the body a bit in its style….except for the quicker cuts

Shashank

So Xander enters Buffy's house, sees Spike's jacket, and bursts into the bathroom to confront her about it? Who walks in on their friends while they're in the bathroom?

Yesmydog

Ignoring that final scene, the bathroom scene itself from a technical perspective is shot so well. There are a lot of quick cuts, the lighting is stark and very unflattering for our characters, the space is so cramped and they make you feel that. It's almost like they wanted you to forget you are dealing with fantastical characters and it gets real, really fast.

Jarrod Wild

Gotta get in that headspace to rewatch this one. If you had been asking rhetorically what else could go wrong for the Scoobies, well this one ticks off a few more checkboxes doesn't it?

Jarrod Wild

Ugh.... I forgot this was the next one. Because it just had to be.... I don't even know if I want to rewatch this... Guess I'll give it a go...

Amanda S

What I like the most about the Trio is that they subvert the trope of the cool villain. A loser with a wine bottle or a gun can do some real damage. You don't need to be cool to be bad or dangerous. Most bad people in real life aren't cool or suave. We also shouldn't have so much sympathy for incels that we ignore the damage they may do. Boys will be boys is not a good argument ... ever.

Moon Logic

My body is ready.... to have its heart broken, but it'S READY!! HYPE! "It's too happy" ah yes, the Buffyverse taught you well. Kinda hate that people "spoilered" the Tara moment by telling you that Whedon wanted to do the "person in the intro, then dies" thing in season 1. Obviously when it happens, you'll catch on immediately

4Tom4lepus4

Ah yes. That episode.

Nick Earl

I kind of like that the nerds aren't good villains, because to me this episode shows how humans can be the worst villains sometimes not because of innate evil but because they just choose not to be good or grow. But there are so many moments in this episode I almost couldn't watch.

Ixaala

Plenty has been said and will continue to be said and someone may have already commented about this but James hated the attempted rape scene...with a passion. He had it put in his contract that he would never do a scene like that ever again. SMG had to comfort and reassure him that she was okay after each take.

Chess Red Eagle

I am so sorry.

Chaotic Cam

Yeah, it's the perfect summary of his existential crisis all season, "What did I do? Why didn't I do it?"

SpikesEcho

I'm giving this one a skip (sorry, Liam, can't do it). I understand why they went to the place they did and can't talk too much about it because spoilers, but I do think they severely underestimated the emotional reaction to Spike's actions. (One of the writers supposedly was basing it on her own behavior after a boyfriend dumped her... trying to force him to realize he loved her by pushing sex on him. Which, yeah. No.) And plot-wise, it had to happen, push things out of the place they had been stuck. I can even see the thought processes that went into it and see why Spike wouldn't think of it in the terms that we are and how it could logically come to this point psychologically. But none of that matters in light of the scene as it is. As to the nerds and Warren in particular? The structure was obviously meant to take them from harmless comic relief and then remind people that what they were talking about was always far from harmless and was not funny. That techie misogyny is not a joke. The thing for me is that the whole season by this point had become such a joyless slog anyway that all of this just pretty much made me hate it, and if I hadn't been watching in a weird and whacked out order (I didn't catch these episodes until long after I'd seen season 7 and was simultaneously watching earlier seasons on cable), I probably would have just turned the damned thing off and never turned it back on.

FernWithy

Exactly. By claiming that rapists are monsters we try to distance ourselves from the issue. The reality is: rapists are people. And they might be good people most of the time. We need to see it for what it is, otherwise we can't do anything against it.

Alexandra Wege

Well, the blonde nerd's name is "Tucker's Brother"; it's a shame you didn't remember that, Liam

Khanach

I don't really think the trio have actual fans. It's more that people like the fact that misogynistic geekdom is represented with the seriousness it needs to be treated with on Buffy, something that hardly any other show has done. Sexist nerds are usually seen as harmless comic relief on TV and that's exactly what Joss Wheadon plays with here.

Alexandra Wege

This episode ... dread. So here's a feeling I only recently came to (probably because I can't bear to watch this episode often): I'm glad they made that story line with Spike. Not because I wanted to see a rape attempt, not because I hate Spike or Buffy. I don't think we (people of our TV/movie -watching generations) are very good at knowing how to feel, how to react to things. There are certain things, like death, like divorce, like assault or - so help me - like rape that we can hear about, read about, try to imagine, but we don't really know what they're like if we don't experience them or SEE them. Rape is a common enough element of shows and movies, but usually it's a brief suggestion that a rape is about to occur followed by a scene cut or black screen. Or it's the discovery of a battered woman, heroic or broken or whatnot, who tearfully claims she's been raped. But we don't SEE it. And I'm not saying we need the act, but most shows/movies will have a stranger jump out and commit the rape, an obvious villain. We don't have to connect with the rapist and we don't have to let ourselves believe that they are people. By making the attempted rapist here be Spike, who we have known and largely loved for five years, AND to show the entirety of the scene between him and Buffy, with all of her cries for him to stop and his temporary deafness to them ... it's horrifying, it's beyond hurtful, it feels like the betrayal and violation that it is. And do we forgive him? Do we want to? If so, why? I hate this scene with everything in me. But I also think it's just so important.

Bean's friend

I also think the trio work well for this season from a writing perspective. There are so many heavy layers to the story this season which a more fantastical big bad (re Glory/hellmouth, etc) would have stifled. Buffy needed the space to heal as a character. The trio acted as a mild catalyst for story without a feeling of menace the bigger baddies have. More like a "hellmouth Lite" for why monsters show up.

RavenSteal

I was like that with Hell’s Bells, I never missed Buffy but somehow didn’t see that episode. The next week I was like WTF?!

Richard Lucas

That's the first time iv ever heard spike question why he didnt for it after saying what did I do. I never noticed it before.

Shauni Livingstone

I don’t think he had any specific hint, just putting two and two together. I forgot just how much lovey dovey time they had together in this episode and that’s sometimes a big hint too in a Whedon show. I just thought they FINALLY added Tara to the credits, long overdue!

Richard Lucas

Andrew is clearly in love (or more likely lust) with Warren. I’m sure Warren knows it and used it.

Richard Lucas

So funny how differently fans of the show can see things. I agree with what you said about Warren, but I love the decision to make Spike do what he did... because he's evil.

Bisibia

Sometimes, people just need to take a beat to think about what they witnessed. I really don't mind.

Bisibia

After all the comments about wanting to see happy couples on your last Angel reaction... I just... This happens.

Bisibia

So much about this episode.... But I laughed so hard in the afterthoughts video when Liam forgot Andrew's name again! 🤣🤣🤣 Whew, needed that. 😪 K, back to the heavy...

RavenSteal

IF it's any consolation, Joss has stated plainly that if Willow and Oz were still together at this point, then it would be Oz who.... So, considering how much you love Oz, every cloud...? Your frustration with the Trio is completely understandable. They are not good people, they are hard to watch, they are pretty annoying. But, the villains always play a metaphoric role. The villains always represent something about Buffy that she has to overcome. It's worth keeping that in mind when thinking about the Trio's actions and re-actions this season. That doesn't excuse their shitness, but everything in this show is always working on two levels. If you can't stand them in the literal, you might find them more interesting in the figurative. Also, one small thing I think you missed, but in the police station Andrew says; "I thought he really loved... eh, hanging out with us." Andrew clearly feels some kind of way about Mr. Big Balls.

This notification popped up when I was sleeping. I saw it on my phone and was like nope not ready! Then went back to sleep. Which is ironic since I've been waiting for this one. I still feel like I'm not ready but I think I procrastinated enough. Time to take a deep breath and hit play.

Jenn Rose

The trio are divisive within the fandom as is this whole season. Like you said you get what they’re trying to do, but it doesn’t click for you so far at least. I've always liked them as villains, the whole season just clicks for me. I like how it emphasizes the strong strain of misogyny, violence and inferiority complex in male nerd culture. That nerd culture is an aspect of most of Whedon's work, but for me this is the only time he's successfully deconstructed its goofiness and shown its’ casual indiscriminate violent consequences [he’s tried a few times]. The trio may be conventionally intelligent, but they’re emotional idiots and morally bankrupt, which is a combination of evil that is so much more common in the real world. This season’s been all about real life horrors, maybe that’s why I relate to it more. Great afterthoughts again. We’re all mad about Tara!

Shashank

oh boy...

colton

I didn't see this episode when it aired for some reason I cannot remember and seeing Tara's death in the "in the previous episodes of BTVS" made me cry so much...

Lonelyjesse

I really wish we got more of your immediate reaction after the episode ended. The half hour break sort of defeats the purpose. Just my two cents. :)

James MacDonald

Oh god, here we go...

Laura Navarro Díaz

I can't remember if Adam and Amber were dating while this was filmed but they were actually together for a hot minute, If you really want an extra layer of pathos to what happened here, go back to Warren's debut in "I Was Made to Love You". When the Scoobs met and discussed the robot situation, there was only one character that actually had a real empathy toward Warren and the loneliness that probably fueled building April - and it was Tara.

Dan H

Warren is arguably (well not arguably from my point of view, he just is) the worst monster they've ever had on the show, because he's human and he has a soul. As terrible and horrible a thing that Spike tried to do to Buffy at least he was actually horrified by his actions, and questioned why he had done what he did, although granted not having a soul some of the answers he was coming up with were like 'dude, FFS, you might wanna just shut up now'. Warren has never done that, not with Katrina, not with Buffy, not with anyone he's impacted; there's never been even any hint of remorse or him questioning any of the actions he's taken. He just revels in killing and beating women down, and when you've got a soulless vampire at least trying to understand the wrongness of what he did & at least expressing some warped idea of remorse, and then you put that up against a human being, with a soul who is just a cold blooded murderer without any semblance or remorse - well I think the comparison says it all really.

Claire Eyles

Also thats the point with the Trio Liam, they are academically smart, but socially they are dumb as rocks. They have been outcasts their whole lives, bullied at school, and Warren especially, sees this as his chance to get some respect and play the big man, when really he is a complete slimeball weasel. Dont be down beat, the final few episodes of this season are spectacular

Jon Dub

Yep. The female writer you mention was Marti Noxon

Tara is probably the purest character on this show all things considered...which makes all the stuff that happens to her that much more heartbreaking. I think you've correctly pointed out multiple times that she's the closest thing this show has to a moral compass and yet, compared to some of the other characters who do super questionable things and never really face consequences, she consistently gets the raw end of the deal. Tara basically pays for her relationships to the Scoobies more than any other character. On a lighter note... Tara and Warren totally dated in real life lol.

Second_Strike

I had to keep pausing it and taking deep breaths, this was so difficult to watch - but absolutely brilliant reaction! It's normal to feel overwhelmed after the events in this one 😭I was half-dreading, half-anticipating this episode, it's amazing but so traumatic. It always leaves me shell shocked and grieving. Agreed with all your after thoughts! 💕

Even after all these years it is still so hard to watch this episode. I am more excited for you to watch the next 3 episodes than I am for almost anything right now.

Mel Saville

I can never get over the fact that Adam Busch and Amber Benson dated for like seven years.

Pam Nail

The Spike and Buffy bathroom scene, interestingly enough, is actually based off of the real life experience of one of the female writers on the Buffy team - except she was the one who attempted to sexually assault her ex, and not the other way around. I can't remember exactly who it was, but I believe it was when they were in college and had just broken up with their boyfriend, they thought it would be a good idea to turn up at his place and essentially try and force themselves on him. Their ex managed to hold them off, but once they'd come to their senses they were so appalled at what they had tried to do and that became the basis/influence for what happened with Spike and Buffy. (edited to add: I think they were trying to show how wrong what they tried to do themselves really was & the result was a horror of a scene to watch).

Claire Eyles

Literally shouted "this is not a drill!" at my cat when I saw this reaction posted. It's a very talked about episode in the fandom for all of the reasons you are struggling with now. Can't wait for the remaining episodes of the season, and especially for your season 6 review! Also, fun and potentially disturbing fact: the actress who plays Tara and the actor who plays Warren were dating for several years and, I believe, were together at the time of this episode. So, enjoy those conflicting feelings! Final also: So, so sorry this episode had to happen to you. We all feel you. I second the rec to watch something happy now! :)

Lydia Anderson

I'll say this about Liam's review. Sometimes it takes the heart of the characters to die to feel alive. Example Zack Snyder keeps referring to Ray Fisher's Cyborg the heart of upcoming Snyder Cut. Everything asked in the review I think will be answered for him. And I think he'll enjoy what's to come. I didn't know Liam had hints of what happened to Tara from credits thing. That sucks I thought he came to this episode clean from hints other then our excitement to get here. I know I mentioned in season two that I'm just waiting for this episode.

Juan Sanchez

We’re all with you Liam. And agree with what you said.. I felt the same way about the trio at this point 😒Tara 😭😱💕💕

CeNedra

Tara is MVP this season, hands down...... Warren is easily the worst monster the show's ever had, because he's human......and the AR is arguably the worst writing decision in the verse, perhaps on par with one or two other things

SpikesEcho

Buffy, I love ya, but don't ever 'yech' my girl Vampi again. The figurine that she rolls her eyes at in the nerd's lair is a comic book character called 'Vampirella'. She was co-created in 1969 by Forrest J Ackerman and legendary feminist comic book illustrator and writer, Trina Robbins (who designed her costume). I have always found it a little odd that such a feminist inclined show as Buffy would dis a character that itself had a strong feminist background and voice behind it, but then I have to remember that they are portraying it from the pov of how the nerd herd are seeing the character. Okay, going to watch the rest of the reaction now. :)

Claire Eyles

I always had a feeling Andrew was in love with Warren lol. Warren really is a piece of sh*t but he is a great villain (the most realistic villain by far..)

Oh. Oh no.

AJ Newton

I can't wait to see the YouTube views in this when it's all said and done because the last six seconds in this reaction are tops over Aftershow, Van, and Torchwood Boy seeing Tara shot combine. I think on YouTube or will be high viewed. For this episode.

Juan Sanchez

*Breathes deep* Ohshit... Gulp. I'm not ready for this.

Raven Dark

Thanks for posting so quickly.....really appreciate it. Always a hard one to watch, especially as Tara has been the best character this season. Fair play to this season, it's not always easy to swallow but you never know what will come next 😭 Warren is the most hated villain for a reason...he's all too real x

Kyle Jordan Ashley Brown

Warren actor (Adam Busch) is amazing, he's playing such a great sleazebag, it's very easy to feel all appropriate feelings towards him, agree with you there

Vladimir Riga

I feel so bad for you 😭

Kris 별

Oh god here we go I’m nervous...

Sarah McKinlay

OK, i'm ready...

Salv Mancuso

James masters said in a interview that bathroom scene was the hardest day in his professional life and would curl up in the feral position between takes 😢

Stacey

The fact that a soulless vampire has any morality at all is what makes Spike so special. He has retained some measure of humanity that makes him capable of remorse. The chip allows that humanity to come out, but it also traps him. Like he said, he can't be a monster, but he can't be a man either. Doesn't excuse his actions, of course. But he's such a fantastic character. So many layers.

Rae

What a roller-coaster :( After this episode Marsters stipulated in his future contracts that there won't be any more sexual assault scenes in his roles

Vladimir Riga

Ohhh... I know what I’ll be doing this afternoon instead of working

Paul Thomas-Humphreys

Oh geesh. I need a drink first

Elisa H.

I'm never ready for this episode.

AngelicMouseGirl

Thank you Liam, I just got off of work from Amazon in Houston Texas and I didn't expect this so soon after Angel I thought maybe two days or three. so it's 5 AM in the morning just finish my shower and saw this notification as 300 Leonides said, today we die in glory!

Juan Sanchez

I cannot watch it right now, I really want to, but I have plans and I cannot show up with a crying mess face. It's always hard to know what it is coming and not being able to protect people because you don't want to spoil people. But I hope you watched something fun afterwards. Cause dear God. What an ending.

s jaco

Eeee... so excited for this

never clicked a link so fast in my life

Jon Dub