Buffy the Vampire Slayer - 4x11 "Doomed" FULL REACTION

OMG. I just went back and rewatched your reaction to The Freshman, S4's start, and noticed what you said about the guys that turned out to be The Initiative. "Maybe they're playing pant ball." Riley when he sees the Scoobies and Spike, "I was just playing paint ball." I LOL'd so hard.

Raven Dark

Love this reaction, even though the episode, while good, wasn't my favorite either. I agree, they could have totally called this episode "Welcome Back to the Hellmouth." Missed opportunity. LOL And you, sir, are the Master of Puns. Buffy's equal. :D

Raven Dark

SHIT that was long. SORRY hun.

Bellatronics

This is not a WOW ! episode like the last one, but there’s a lot of good stuff in it. Mostly the scenes of Spike & Xander in Xander’s basement, and Spike wearing Xander’’s Hawaiian shirt. :D Liam: “Vampires in Hawaiian Shirts Is My New Favourite Thing.” And his wondrous final monologue of course. But other stuff too. Btw, you missed Spike attempting to brain Xander with the wrench Xander handed to him - and getting a chip fire for it. it was very brief - you looked down. :) Riley “ I can feel my skin humming” Liam: “You should probably get that checked out.” LOL Riley - you are WEIRD! IMHO Riley is being way too pushy in this scene and not respecting Buffy’s feelings - even if they are quite pessimistic ones based on past tragedy, he still needs to respect her boundaries and her no and where she’s at with what she wants right now. He annoys me. [Edit, as Rachel says above - who the hell says “I’m not going to force myself on you.” Creep.] And then later in the next scene, he kept pushing as you mentioned Liam and I agree with Buffy that he is outta line and is saying all this stuff trying to analyse her when her barely knows her. And I VERY much get her wariness that he sees demon fighting as a job and as fun. He doesn’t get what being a slayer is, or destiny. I think this is quite linked to the lack of knowledge at the Initiative about the supernatural and what they are really dealing with. I too really like the scene where they are comparing research/prep methods - ancient lore, books and magic vs science & tech. I like the idea of bringing science & tech in - weapon & tracking wise there could be useful stuff. And just the concept of bringing in science, tech, army & government into the Buffyverse/ supernatural world. But the Initiative operatives/organisation seems completely clueless about magic and the supernatural, and seem to think the same as Forrest’s earlier comment - that demons are just animals. With no intelligent or higher thought or purpose. If left to them the world would’ve ended int his ep! Also, their methods are way dodgy. Locking up and doing non-consensual medical experiments and dissection on sentient beings. If a demon is dangerous and a threat, then you kill it like Buffy does. You don’t torture them. However, it is obvious that not all demons are a dangerous threat - we’ve had the Bracken demons and the other refugee demons over on Angel, and also there was that demon in season 3 who wanted to sell the books of ascension that seemed very non-violent and was living a fairly innocuous human style life. The main evidence on Btvs though - is that Buffy doesn’t go into Willie’s every night/week and slaughter all the demons in there just because they are demons. If they’re not up to something evil she leaves them alone. Apart from the vamps of course cos they snack on humans for survival. Can you imagine Doyle being captured by the Initiative , locked up and experimented on. Ugh, though horrifies me. Ok, he’s gone now, but you know what I mean. I greatly dislike that they opened up Spike’s head and stuck a chip in there - from the non-consensual torture and imprisonment point of view. And he’s a violent killer! From a plot point of view of how to bring Spike onto the show as regular cast character without Buffy having to stake him though, and a possible way for him to maybe hang more with the Scoobies, it’s brilliant. Another point on that demon that was trying to get free - and Forrest says - ‘see just an animal’ because the demon was fighting and ‘violent’ - well if you were captured and locked up and gonna be experimented on, you’d try and get free too. That’s all the demon was trying to do. Does not prove that particular demon is evil or violent by nature. Or that they are an ‘animal’ with no higher intelligence ( which is an insult to animals anyway!) I really do not like Forrest! Ah!! You missed Spike’s smirk!!! After his diatribe against Willow & Xander outside the museum, you look down to make some notes. As Spike walks away from them, he has this great smirk on his face - yes he was being nasty and cutting close to the bone on Oz, and wrong on them being useless - Buffy does need her Scooby team. And I think Spike knows it too, that they do help, he’s just finding a way to have a dig. [ Spike in School Hard to Dru : ” A slayer with friends and family. That as sure as hell wasn't on the brochure." He knows he lost at the school because of Buffy’s friends & her mum.] It’s obviously the only way he can get his jollies/kicks at the moment since he can’t really be bad or evil in any other way at the moment. That smirk is very telling. WHY have I never thought of that in all these years - Spike could have drunk that blood at the Hellmouth ritual scene. That’s scene has a lot going on it it though, and I’ve always noticed that bag of bones more - what with them being thrown around and all - I don’t think I’ve really noticed the jar of blood. Yes Liam - you are indeed a genius! :) (re. the demons being the sacrifice) Spike WAS NOT listening to Willow there! “Spike, not in the hole!” :D Bit too distracted with the high of being able to wreak violence on demons eh. :) I love that after offering to stake Spike earlier, Xander then automatically rescues him. :D “Noo, siir. I’m just an old pal of Xaaandeer’s here.” LOL at James , an American pretending to be a Brit doing a bad American accent. :D I <3 it. “Nice Little trip down memory lane’” Not only is there still Mayor Gunk everywhere, but also, you can see the Witch Cheerleader statue lying on the floor of the hallway in that scene ( others have probably already beat me to it on this!). BALLS! - Liam you crack me up, yet again. I find it quite amusing that it’s the end of the world AGAIN. A bit like in the Zeppo - it’s casually a potential apocalypse, just a regular old thing on the Hellmouth now. :D Though I don’t like Riley - which is to do with him being Jock/Army type - ew! ( personally) [will elaborate another time, this is already way too long!] - - his hapless twit side is the best bit about him. Oh yup - just out paint balling :) Thanks Liam for another great reaction.

Bellatronics

No, many of us have other reasons for not liking him. I was never really a Bangel fan - and is very 'Ewww!' to me now - absolutely not no.1, and not really no.2 - I'd just be blaise about a boring character. And it's not about spoilery things in the future either - I really never liked him right from the start. It's to do with him bing a popular jock type, and so normcore it hurts, and a military person - a combo I really don't like, but not gonna go into why here, cos that would be too long, and will post to Liam about it sometime later. But it's kinda bout him being the privileged type of guy in life and not being an outsider at all in any way like the rest of the Scoobies or other characters in the show that I/we relate to. I cannot relate to this kinda guy AT ALL. I get that many people think he's just a nice normal guy, but to me he's off and ewww. It would be great not to reduce dow.n to 2 generalisations the views of thousands of fans. There are many reasons not covered here.

Bellatronics

What’s this. Sitting around watching the telly while there’e evil still afoot. It’s not very industrious of you. I say we go out there and kick a little demon ass. What, can’t go without your Buffy is that it? Let’s find her , she is the Chosen One after all. Come ON! Vampires urrggh nasty!! Let’s annihilate them, for justice and for the safety of puppies .. and Christmas right. Let’s FIGHT that evil! Let’s KILL something. Oh COME ON!! One of my favourite Spike monologues, the end of this episode just makes it. :D Well, really this episode is ok, kinda average - were it not for Spike who lifts ti to something better. IMHO.

Bellatronics

Yeah, Forrest is such a douche. It's my headcanon that he is such a douche about girls, and Riley's feelings for Buffy, because he cannot admit he has feelings for Riley haha!

Holi117

Perhaps I am misunderstanding you, but I don't think that is entirely fair to Buffy. Buffy _has_ to keep her 'normal' self separate from her 'slayer' self. Giles told her that, and even if he had not, Buffy does not live in a society in which she can exist openly as The Vampire Slayer. Riley himself is undercover as a grad TA, but presumably Riley has the freedom to leave the Initiative whereas Buffy has no choice in being the Slayer. I thought that was the point she was making to Riley. Buffy occasionally explores not being the Slayer, but she always inevitably embraces it, like in the House of Black and White when instead of identifying herself as, "no one," she announced that she is, "Buffy the Vampire Slayer." Not Buffy Summers. The sad truth is the being the Slayer will always keep Buffy separate from everyone else, no matter how hard Buffy tries to be normal. And Buffy knows that Slayers die young, so there's that extra fun bonus. I completely understand why Riley acting like an Owen Danger Boy would set off alarm bells for her. As far as Kendra and Faith are concerned, they represent the extreme versions of Buffy (some say the roads not taken, others say the superego and the id). Buffy is supposed to be somewhere in the middle. Kendra had relinquished her individuality to be 100% Slayer. Faith used her Slayerhood to justify being above society and the law. I would not embrace either's ideology. P.S. I love Faith. My thoughts on her are much more complex and sympathetic than were perhaps indicated above. I'm sad we didn't get to know Kendra better.

Rachael

Buffy saying Riley treated his position like a job while she was different doesn't ring entirely true to me. It's the reverse of the parting words she got from Kendra: “You talk about slaying like it's a job. It's not. It's who you are.” (Faith echoes that idea with her “It's who we are” way of thinking in Season Three.) Kendra pointed out that the way Buffy went about being the Slayer showed that she was much closer to accepting that than she wanted to admit but, two years later, Buffy is still trying to keep her 'normal' self separate from her 'slayer' self. Had the story continued unbroken from “Graduation Day” I think she might have gotten there. Everyone (she cared about) knew who she was and it was good. Then she went off to a new location with new people and she's back to keeping part of her life separate from her 'normal' life again.

Bruce Trogdon

Thank you for that. Marti Noxon truly disturbs me.

Sarah Rose

I’m a Riley fan. Is he my fave Buffyverse character? No, there are many many that come before him. But I’ve never understood the dislike for him. I think it comes in 2 flavors: 1) those who couldn’t let Angel - Buffy go at the time so they hated him for that and it stuck; 2) or those that find him boring. To me, he’s boring like Atticus Finch, in that he’s not boring at all! He’s fun, goofy, handsome, caring. I think following Parker didn’t do him any favors with the fans. Having said all that, I can’t really say more now. I just hope fans let go of their 20 year old hate and see the character for who he is: someone just genuinely trying to do the right thing. I try to give every Buffyverse character the benefit of the doubt, and except for one, I think I’ve suceeded.

Richard Lucas

I never noticed that!!!

Richard Lucas

me, personally, not a big riley fan... so i kind of zone out on their scenes in the episode. Riley comes off as kind of desperate and needy to me, and isn't listening to what buffy is trying to tell him and explain about her slayer-life. BUT at the same time, i do understand that. this is all new to him, and buffy is scared of things going wrong or caring for somebody that cant handle her life, or who will get hurt. Its all kinda stupid though, considering willow and xander are on the team without military grade training.. Honestly, this episode, Spike is the show stealer for me. TBH he is the scene stealer for me every time he shows up lol. James Marsters does a fantastic job.!!

Holi117

I hadn't minded Riley too much before now. He's not much of a character, but I liked his interactions with Willow. But wow, does Marti Noxon (who wrote the Buffy/Riley scenes) have some unsettling ideas about relationships. Buffy tells Riley "no" several times, and that should be the end of it. His dialogue is so weird, cringey, and offensive. "I can feel my skin humming, my hands, my every inch of me. I’ve never been this excited about anybody before. I’m not trying to scare you, and I’m not going to force myself on you. But I’m, by God, not going to walk away because I think it *might* not work." "I'm not going to force myself on you." What? Who says that? Then he tells her that she's stupid and too self-interested. That’s how you charm someone into dating you? I almost wanted Buffy to punch him. But no, at the end, Buffy rewards Riley's atrocious behavior by agreeing to date him. Not a great message to send to girls or boys about how to treat each other.

Rachael

I love that the cheerleader statue Amy’s mom is locked in is in the middle of the hall when they’re walking to the library in the school. She was probably hoping for the apocalypse 😅

Cheryl Coffin

Not a great episode. The main plot is an afterthought. Buffy argument with Riley feels repetitive and in the end is resolved without much of an explanation. She just changes her mind. The only enjoyable part are every single scene with Spike, from start to finish. From Spike attempting to hit Xander only to hilariously being blocked by the Initiative implant without Xander noticing anything, to the Hawaiian shirt, to the final scene that I could watch a hundred times.

Vicky N

I think Spike's the best thing about this episode. Every scene he's in, you just know something goods coming. I also thought it was cool seeing the old high school again but I didn't really like the end of the world story at this stage of the season. It worked in "The Zeppo" because they were making fun of it but it didn't really work in this episode. As for Riley, I don't love or hate him. I like him because he's a nice guy and I think Buffy needs to have a go at being in a healthy relationship right now but he can be a bit cringey at times with some things he says. Great reaction!

Donna

I don't love this episode... but I'll watch it every time for Spike in Xander's clothes.

Bisibia

I like Riley, too, particularly the doofiness. But I think there are times where they didn't quite know what they were doing with him, and they give him weird lines like "My skin is humming" or "You'll teach me." I'm happy to just ignore those weird lines or write them off as "They were trying too hard for 'nice' and 'normal,'" but I get people also responding with, "EEEEURGHHH." This isn't the greatest of Buffy eps--it's like the B plot of "The Zeppo," but without the self-satire--but I love Spike's plot as he realizes he can hurt demons.

FernWithy

This episode, man, Spike and Willow were everything. As for Buffy and Riley, I don't think Riley's the Antichrist, but I'll never love him. Having said that, thank goodness for whomever changed his hair. That center-part-and-floppy-bangs thing he had going on earlier in the season did him no favors.

Bean's friend

Great reaction as usual! <3 Percy's a jerk here. Some interesting character bits... I actually don't think Spike really believes Willow and Xander are useless to Buffy, because when he turns his back after delivering his little speech, he has a satisfied smile on his face... I think he was trying to get Willow and Xander to stake him (which Willow is perceptive enough to see.) By the end, he's happy again at being able to kill demons at least. Great comments on the contrast between the Initiative's approach to fighting demons and the Scoobies. Also, I don't like Forrest (Riley's friend) at all and dislike his commentary here. I do like the Buffy-Riley theme music!

The Buffy/Riley theme is one of my favorite pieces of music in the entire show. It's just beautiful.

Sisnerdly

I love how quickly you're getting these out. TY Liam! 🤗

Sisnerdly

Without having seen this yet, I'm already laughing at Editing Liam laughing at Spike trying to hit Xander. Heh. 😏 Ok Going to watch now. 🤓

RavenSteal