Buffy the Vampire Slayer: 7x17 Full Reaction
Added 2025-08-27 14:56:36 +0000 UTC"Lies My Parents Told Me"
Comments
The first didn't create the trigger, it just discovered it within Spike and used it to it's advantage.
Jeremy Szefler
2025-11-29 14:45:57 +0000 UTCI don't see it as an issue of lacking empathy; He was angry, and hurt, and felt threatened, and so he said what he said to make Wood feel hurt and scared too. Not very mature, granted, but we already know Spike is good at compartmentalizing his remorse when he chooses to, and we know he uses the coat and the tough guy persona as a shield. And he had actually set aside those shields, until recently, when a certain someone told him to pick those shields back up again and be a warrior or go kick rocks.
Maia Brodsky
2025-09-08 17:30:56 +0000 UTCI understand Robin's POV, and I think he had every right to do what he did, but I agree with Buffy that it REALLY wasn't the time. I don't like how Spike handled that interaction, either, telling Robin his mum didn't love him. I understand the point he was trying to make, that slayers will always prioritise the mission above all else, but he didn't have to take that route when he'd already taken Robin's mother from him AND just beaten him in the fight. If he had genuinely held himself accountable for what he did, I would feel differently, but he doesn't even care about all the things he did. Compared to Angel, who still tortures himself over all the people he killed, Spike seems to be over it just because he had a couple of weeks of suffering. The fact that he also took the coat back really grosses me out, too. I know it's become his signature thing, but that could have been some real growth if he left it there. It's clear even with a soul that his empathy is still lacking.
Dante
2025-09-06 23:48:48 +0000 UTCI think the First could program Spike because he lived for so long in the basement of the school, right over the Hellmouth, where the First had direct access to him and drove him crazy (for a time).
Rod B
2025-09-01 00:40:02 +0000 UTCSo, the First can’t invite triggers out of thin air, Spike’s end with his mother caused him to suppress that memory, and after 2 hundred years it was buried deep, which made it into a trigger. The First realized that it could use that memory as a trigger and turn Spike into a monster. So this is not an attack the First can use with anyone else, as it requires suppressed memories
Christopher Drakulich
2025-08-30 04:04:13 +0000 UTCYeah, like c’mon Giles, she died twice, she killed the man she loved, she sacrificed herself… are these not hard choices?
Jorgalorg
2025-08-29 12:34:37 +0000 UTCI don't know why, but so many people don't connect the call from 'Fred in LA' to the "Angel" series. I was so happy to see you piece that together. I enjoy this episode, but it's part of a tapestry of storylines that make season seven one of my least-enjoyed seasons: The way characters say over and over again that Buffy is weak or unprepared for the 'hard choices' and the Role of Leadership. It's repetitive and frequently nonsensical because she DOES make those 'hard choices', just not the exact way they want her to do it. I commented on your last "Angel" episode that Faith wasn't "in it" in that episode, and Wesley was correct to point it out. But that was ONE EPISODE of it being a theme and character dynamic, and it came out of her being visibly out of sorts. Here it's been 10 episodes of people saying this, when she hasn't actually made any mistakes at all. The only area where you could argue she made a mistake is with Spike, and even that's just an ARGUMENT, not 'proof'. The characters act like they've suffered defeat after defeat or that Buffy has made mistake after mistake, when none of that has happened yet. This story-arc might have made sense in season six when Buffy was 'out of sorts' for the entire season and it bled into every aspect of her life. But that's just not where her character is at now.
JBK405
2025-08-29 01:09:26 +0000 UTCThe lies your parents tell you are the lies you tell yourself. until they break down so much you just can't carry on pretending, because they are lies. Until you do tho the lie has power over you. The "men" effed up big time. They listened to fear, and gave in to vengeance as a vice, because it pleased them, and they felt they could make the fear go away, by tricking Buffy, and killing Spike, and that somehow she would forgive them because she would see that they are the men and they know best. Giles actually gave her good advice, and she ended up deciding to take it -- I don't think they intended it that way, actually, but of course they weren't thinking big picture at all, while lying that that was their sole reason for being treacherous and deceitful. They made their point but they made it backwards -- Spike is now the indispensable one and they are the expendables.
spikeysnack
2025-08-28 08:52:46 +0000 UTCWill Buffy ever trust Giles again? This is the second time he has betrayed her after Helpless. And she knew he wasn't trustworthy in The Gift. Buffy said she would now let Dawn die if it would save the world, when she wouldn't to defeat Glory. I think a big reason is the Potentials. How can she be willing to put their lives at risk and not be willing to do the same with Dawn?
Bud Haven
2025-08-28 03:26:01 +0000 UTCThis is an episode I rarely rewatch, not because it isn't good (much of it is great!), but because the Buffy/Giles relationship is my favorite thing in the series and seeing it crack here is awful 😟. It's even worse than the Season 3 episode with the insane Watchers test he subjects her to. Then you could argue he went along with it because he was put under duress by the council. He has no such excuse here, and I can't stand seeing him deceive her this way. That's not the Giles I know! (It's one of those times where I want to blame the writer, not the character.) Buffy's pronouncement that now she would let Dawn die also feels way off-key to me, especially the way they just drag it in out of nowhere, but that little moment almost at the end where they silently show Buffy tenderly watching Dawn in bed gives the lie to it. Everything involving Spike/William is brilliant! The slightly creepy Norman Bates-like feeling of his pre-vamp relationship with his mother, the Freudian/Oedipal cataclysm it turns into, it's amazing Spike isn't a bigger psychological mess. And Drusilla's reaction when she's told he wants to bring his mother along is hilarious. The title is a modification of the title of a 1975 film, Lies My Father Told Me. The episode includes an oblique Jack The Ripper reference. When his mother seems ill, William asks if he should "send for Dr. Gull." William Withey Gull was a prominent physician of the time. Many years later, some Ripper theorists floated the idea that Gull was involved in a conspiracy behind the killings, some saying that he may have been the Ripper himself.
DanielOrme
2025-08-28 00:34:30 +0000 UTCYeah for some reason Spike kept his same personality that he had as William, just losing the consciousness that makes you feel bad when you do bad things. But his mother didn't retain any of her caring behavior. Maybe it also speaks to William being a much stronger person than people gave him credit for when he was alive. I don't know, but it's very interesting that William's personality stayed so prominently in Spike.
Masha Gunic
2025-08-28 00:22:18 +0000 UTCGranted, they probably should have just kept him on chains until they could get rid of the trigger for once and all but they probably just didn't do that for storytelling purposes. So the solution is to put Spike (or anyone else who might have a trigger) in chains instead of killing them.
Masha Gunic
2025-08-28 00:19:40 +0000 UTCThere are 4 ‘parents’ referenced by the title; Nikki, Giles, Anne (Spike’s Mom) and Drusilla (Spike’s other Mom).
Isaiah Bryant
2025-08-27 21:31:19 +0000 UTCI wonder if maybe the reason The First was only able to control Spike is because he is a demon🤔
Preaching to the Horse's Mouth
2025-08-27 20:21:11 +0000 UTCWe've seen Giles take this sort of "make the hard decisions even if it hurts the ones you love" thing before. Between him and Wesley it must be a Watcher thing.
Preaching to the Horse's Mouth
2025-08-27 20:19:11 +0000 UTCThe fandom is usually split on the actions of characters in this episode. I'd say more support Buffy/Spike but I'm more so on the side of Wood and Giles. Buffy and Spike were not taking the trigger serious enough. As the potentials pointed out, they trained with Spike and there were plenty of times Spike was not chained up or supervised by Buffy. At any point the First could've triggered him and got people killed. They fight against Giles every step of the way when he's trying to help figure out cause of the trigger. Now going behind Buffy's back was wrong but at the same time, they ended up removing the trigger. I can't really blame Giles when he was talking to a wall.
Steveo
2025-08-27 20:13:27 +0000 UTCYeah, Dawn did try to sacrifice herself at the end of season 5, but I agree, it would be a gut punch to find out your sister, who previously gave her own life to save you, would now be willing to sacrifice you to save the world. When we compare this episode to what Angelus did to his own family, we indeed see how individual vampires are different, just like people are different, and that Spike in particular is uniquely special in his capacity for affection and empathy, even without a soul. There's been plenty of evidence of this in the past, but I love how this episode really drives it home. His relationship with his mother also sheds light on the soft spot he always had for Joyce. He's always been a mama's boy lol
Maia Brodsky
2025-08-27 20:12:42 +0000 UTCI feel like you were SO SPOT ON with your analysis of how Giles is used to having to be her mentor and part of his being so combative this season is because she’s making decisions for herself. Which is wild because Giles’ whole reason for leaving in Season 6 was because he said he felt Buffy was too reliant on him LOL!! So now that she’s not reliant on him enough he’s like “well wait a damn minute!!” Haha. This episode is always so tough for me to rewatch because I think it shifts Buffy and Giles’ relationship CONSIDERABLY. Giles is Buffy’s father figure. She fully looks at him as a father more than a mentor. And this episode was when her “father” let her down and lied to her and manipulated her. It’s heartbreaking. I understand his intentions but OOF…. “Lies My Parents Told Me” indeed lol.
Cameron Ferguson
2025-08-27 20:02:24 +0000 UTCA brutal episode, as is the standard with Spike. James Marsters and DB Woodside absolutely kill it in this episode; the one-two emotional punch of Spike being torn apart by his mother in the past with Wood ranting tearfully about his mother in the present. Think you hit the nail on the head about Giles' motivations, but I can't say I like that he's acting this way; it feels beneath the Giles I know, and petty for a character who's usually rather dignified. One thing I wish they'd done in this episode, was have Spike give Wood the coat back; it's weird for him to be on a redemption kick while wearing the trophy of a past victim.
Jorgalorg
2025-08-27 18:20:11 +0000 UTCWhat's funny is there were two sisters in my high school named Robin and Nikki Wood, completely unrelated to the show since that was before the show began. So, flashback in Becoming Part 1, right as Darla is about to sire Angel she says "Close your eyes." Buffy right before she sends Angel to hell: "Close your eyes." Flashback in season 5 episode 7, Cecily breaks William's heart when she says: "You're beneath me." Buffy tells Spike at the end of the episode: "You're beneath me." Principal Wood's mom in a flashback for this episode: "The mission is what matters." Buffy: "The mission is what matters." Buffy sure has a way of repeating dialogue from past events in the most devastating way, lol. You might say she's a slayer in more ways than one. This is a great episode. As much as I feel bad for Wood and understand his motivations, it's crazy that he went behind Buffy's back to try to kill Spike. Even more crazy that he used the trigger to bring out the monster. I understand wanting to kill the beast and not the man, but 1) you can't kill one without killing the other, and 2) the beast is obviously way too strong and powerful for him to kill without some back-up. Dumb move, Principal Wood. I get it, but still dumb. At least now, we have the trigger issue resolved and we learned more about Spike's background in the process. Also, great seeing Dru again, even in flashbacks. This season's been a ride and, in my opinion, it stays good until the very end.
Steve Quast
2025-08-27 17:44:59 +0000 UTCPROPS to Juliet Landau as Drusilla.. Every episode, Every scene, she is in she is Perfect.. She doesn't get the credit, she deserves!! The chuckle when Spike wants to bring his mom with them!! 🤣🤣🤣 Also this is the episode that proves Spike is different.. Maybe Spike always had a soul... Maybe he just lost his conscience when he turned.. idk?? 🤔🤔🤔
Bryan J Brown
2025-08-27 16:38:12 +0000 UTCYeah, it's not unusual for reactors to miss or misunderstand something like that their first time watching the show. It happens. You're bound to miss things your first time around. One thing's for sure, you can always count on your Patreon supporters to correct you lol. I saw 8 or 10 comments last time doing just that, which is why I didn't bother saying anything. Yeah, Andrew becomes a much less annoying and a much more watchable, and even likable, character in season 7. It takes a while for him to get there, but I think he's made it. I would consider Storyteller to be his official "redemption" episode, although he's shown signs of loyalty to the Scoobies beforehand.
Steve Quast
2025-08-27 16:35:16 +0000 UTCBeen waiting on this reaction, I sure hope you didn’t miss the phone call that Willow received!
Keenan White
2025-08-27 15:21:57 +0000 UTC
