Buffy the Vampire Slayer: 5x7 Full Reaction

Your face when you realized you're seeing Spike before he was a vampire is the best part of this lol Also relating to what you said about how you'd love to watch a show detailing the history of slayers. Next best thing there is a book series called Tales of the Slayer. Each volume has several short stories about a different slayer in time. One comes to mind of a slayer during the civil war. Another during mid 1800s London who marries and even has children with her watcher. I have a couple of them but I don't know how many they did. Really fun reads

Nathan Conarroe

Such a beautifully made and choreographed episode.

Gung Ho

It makes me think he got just a bit of Drusilla's ability to see in to people.

Gung Ho

3 quick things i think you missed: 1. Willam got the name Spike from the guy that said he would rather "have a railroad spiked through my head" 2. Spike got his eyebrow scar from the Chinese slayer 3. Spike got his leather jacket from the NY slayer

Bisibia

Spike's strongest weapon is his ability to read people. He went to Buffy's house to kill a derisive Slayer, but what he found was a vulnerable Buffy. He could see that she would be receptive to an "act" of compassion.

Bud Haven

Its not there first time (Spike and Dru) they've been around eachother too long by this point.

Morgan Williams

Angelus said sn angry crowd would teach him, and that's what happend to Drusilla when we see her in her weakened state at the first of season 2.

Morgan Williams

Spike says before Angel is his sire in the second season, but turns out he meant grand-sire, cuz Dru actually made him and angel turned her.

Morgan Williams

When Spike was turned he started torturing people with railroad spikes cuz of the people who laughed at him here, thus he earned the name Spike liked stated in the 2nd season.

Morgan Williams

There are vampires that just live to drink blood, revel in being strong and taking revenge against humans, and choose evil because they fear the light. Some like to make plans, pretend to be human with nice things they could not afford when alive, by taking from the living. Dracula was a rich and noble warrior in life, then a tyrannical murderous ruler to keep his lands and enslave the population, and fight back the other warring peoples trying to steal his land. As a vampire he became legend, a celebrity, but desires companionship, and drama. Angelus, Darla, Drusilla, and Spike took it on the road, wanting adventure and learning not to draw attention, moving on. The Master wanted to be a cult leader, as he was a forward thinker, sort of like a practical prophet -- very smart, he became insane by his imprisonment, I forget how, over the hellmouth, and became focused on freeing himself. He apparently could call dark warriors from all over the globe, much like the Mayor, so he probably had quite the reputation, and some serious psychic powers. He even mentally stunned Buffy, she was paralyzed, for a while. Slayer power seems to rise up against whatever is against it, at levels big enough to win. Spike on his own (Harmony is just a fling, he actually treats her quite badly, even for him, remember how he doted on Dru, almost to a humiliating degree. But he chose Buffy over Dru when it came to destroying the world (I am not sure that is really possible, demons and legends are prone to wild exaggeration), and now he is choosing her as his obsession, probably not healthy either. Buffy is letting him in to the group, and to her inner thoughts and feelings (and fears), because she thinks he will understand more than the others, more than Riley would. Perhaps it is the fact that he is bereft, and she sympathizes as she feels the same, and needs an outsider to talk to, or maybe Riley just can't relate the way she needs. Maybe its because she knows that Spike in his stupid way is a strong person, but not unfeeling, and he does not make fun of real emotional pain, he is not a fear fetishist, not really, he likes the action, and Buffy can relate to that too.

spikeysnack

I like to picture as a 'petrified tree'. It follows the same bends & grooves as the original (i.e., the soul), but it now made of something different (the demon essence).

Chet Erez

Spike has always been a little different from other vampires. Some remnants of his former personality showing through, very clearly, and he feels emotions very strongly... I think his feelings are very confused about her. Obsession, clearly to a dangerous degree... but perhaps more than that. As for what is wrong with Joyce, you may have missed it... it's already been pretty well established that what is wrong with her is physical. Buffy did the spell to reveal any magic in her house, and it revealed Dawn (and we now understand why, she's the Key, etc) but it revealed NOTHING around Joyce. That was the point. Whatever is wrong with her is natural and human, not magic. :(

dreamsofspike

Honestly, I still don't think I've ever heard the word 'effulgent' used by anyone in media/real life since this episode first aired, so props to the writers for plucking that one out of the ether 😄

Antonio

Great reaction and insight as always. I ❤️ this episode. That whole scene with the NY Slayer has always stuck with me ever since my first viewing. From the aesthetics, to the subway fight, to the inter-cutting between the two time periods, it's just so well done!! I would like to reiterate a comment made by another person a couple of episodes ago about Joyce, however. There's not really been anything to suggest her ailment is of supernatural origin. The one piece of evidence that makes you seem to think so is her asking Dawn "Who are you?" before collapsing to the floor, thinking she was seeing past the spell. But don't forget that if the problem is with her brain, temporary memory loss could've just been a natural symptom of the issue. It could've been Buffy instead of Dawn in that scene, and it still would've made complete sense. We are, after all, fragile machines made of meat and electricity.

Test User

"Fool For Love" brings to the show a deeper emotional dynamic, something only seen near the finales in earlier seasons where the threat of Buffy dying (she did once) is real. But this time it is not just her, it is Dawn she has to live for, not just herself and her destiny. She has always been a protector, but living in Sunnydale with evil has given them personal losses, from the first episode with Jesse. But Buffy has a wake-up call, that she can be taken out of action. This was sort of like a first date with Spike, in a way, the first time they became personally intimate, even though still on their different sides. (If you don't count Willow's spell that made them want to marry each other for a while ... ) . There is definitely chemistry. Spike is usually not so broody, and he is not the only one. Everyone is dealing with emotional trauma by now, and probably going to have to face it and deal with it when the big bad comes around, or it will end up killing somebody. One the thing the slayer knows is when death is in the air.

spikeysnack

dude? are you posting spoilers on purpose ??

madfem

Sam Alexander

This is my favorite episode of the entire series. There are other episodes that are "better", but this is my favorite. The final scene where they are sitting together like two old warriors. Spike in reality and Buffy just for a Slayer. My two favorite characters, one mostly good, one mostly evil. Those two sitting on the porch could be the main image for the entire show. Spike, when he was talking to Buffy about how Slayers die, mentioned three ways. First, Slayers are in deep if they don't have a weapon. The first Slayer dropped her stake and dropped her life. Second is pure RNG. Keep fighting long enough, eventually something is going to get you. Third was the darkest. Eventually Slayers get to the point where they've had enough. When Buffy says, "Say it's true. Say I do want to." I don't think she was talking about making out with vampires. I think it was about that third way. Spike would never be the vampire that takes her out. But Spike was trying to get a physical relationship going, and that is how he took her rejection. Spike says that inevitably her death wish will come to the fore. S-"The second that happens, I'll slip in, have myself a real good day." Later, after his awkward attempt to hit on her he says "Come on. I can feel it Slayer. You know you want to dance." Spike is saying he can feel her desire for him. But then Buffy says "Say it's true." That she has desire for him? Or is she saying she has a desire for the dance. A death wish. "Say I do want to." But Spike also said it's her family and friends who tie her here. Keeping it at bay. So is it in her, kept at bay by her family and friends? We already know the answer to this, it's yes. In The Wish we see Buffy without her support system and she has death-wishyness all over her. B-"The world is what it is. We fight, we die. Wishing doesn't change that." And she turns down help to fight the Master. B-"There's only one thing I'm good at." G-"At least let's muster some force." B-"I don't play well with others." And eventually he kills her. So I think it is there, and Buffy is telling Spike he would never be the vamp who takes her down.

Bud Haven

Spike's assessment that all Slayers have a death wish is believable even if he is an unreliable narrator. Being the Slayer is isolating, brutal, exhausting and relentless. No one could live like that day in, day out and not develop some kind of morbid preoccupation with death, to say nothing of the depression and trauma that would ensue. The death wish is something that Slayers unconsciously develop when they realize there is only one way to escape their neverending battle. They get tired, they lose heart, their will to fight stumbles.

Mornir

Spike as a human died heartbroken, aroused and in pain. That tells us everything about how he became the vampire we know. His poetic and innocent yearning for love is transmuted into demonic lust and romantic obsession. It's tragic how Dru plays him into thinking she'll show him something shining and light - 'effulgent' - and instead draws him into darkness. When and why did his obsession with Buffy start? I think he was always physically attracted to her (the way he watches her dance in the Bronze before their first meeting is very sexual). He's always been 'dancing' with her in his mind. Helping her to take down Angelus established a rapport between them which likely grew into an unconscious preoccupation with her as both the Slayer and an object of attraction. Dru could see this. After he's chipped, he and Buffy are bewitched by Willow, and spend a day or so making out and believing they're in love. I'm sure that lingered in their minds, even if they thought it was disgusting on the surface. His frustration at being unable to kill her then becomes coupled with lust when Faith encounters him in Buffy's body. He's shocked, curious and turned on by 'Buffy' coming onto him. Love, lust and death are all intertwined for Spike. After that, it's only a matter of time before his desire to kill her becomes his desire to be with her... I don't think the night Spike killed his first Slayer was the first time he and Dru got together. I do think, though, that it was when Dru became "his". Even as a vampire, Spike is a simp for the woman he's in love with. There's no reason to puzzle at the final scene. What it shows us us is that even when raging against the target of his romantic obsession ,Spike's desire to serve and be close to her is greater than his fury. That's just who he is, human and demon. A fool for love.

Mornir

I love how Spike wins his fights with the Slayer because of some external factor that neither fighter could have predicted. The China Slayer is about to stake Spike before an explosion makes her drop her stake and gives Spike the opportunity to grab her while she is reaching for it (as Spike said, a Slayer must always reach for her weapon). The New York Slayer also has Spike on the ropes, but he is able to turn the situation around when the lights go out for a few seconds. Perhaps Spike only went after each Slayer when he sensed they were feeling off like you suggested, but Spike ultimately won each fight because he got lucky. We take for granted that Buffy won't die fighting a random vampire in the cold open of an episode because we know we're watching a show, but there's nothing realistically stopping an ordinary vampire landing a lucky blow or Buffy accidentally leaving herself open to an attack. Everyone makes mistakes and every time Buffy goes patrolling, she risks making a fatal one.

Lime Pie

BtVS vampires are more complicated than the Watchers say as they're not exactly impartial, and there is something to be said for thinking of vampires in black and white terms. Some vampires do seem to retain some of the personality of the victim, there is major changes when it comes to morality but the core of the identity is still there. I'm 60 and while I'm different than when I was 10, 20, 40 , "a new man" like Jessie said in "The Harvest", I'm still me.

slypeartree

And he got his eyebrow scar from the China Slayer.

Lime Pie

I’m not sure if you noticed it because you were taking your notes at the time, but it was revealed that Spike got his trademark leather jacket from the New York Slayer.

Keenan White

It seems that a lot of what drives Spike is that he is a poet at heart (albeit a "bloody" awful one). Perhaps that is part of his successful kill rate of Slayers and definitely figures in his Watcher files that were compiled... William the Bloody (for his bloody awful poetry) and Spike (for him presumably granting the other boor's wish that he "...would rather have a railroad spike driven through his head than to hear anymore of it...). He has a great deal of (empathy?) emotional connection and reads that can be weaponized like Angelus weaponized his traits. As to the reaction to Buffy's words and flinging the money at him near the end: "You are beneath me" was the killer statement made by Cecily to William and when Buffy stated the same phrase. That wasn't a trigger, that was a dropped bomb and if Spike had not seen Buffy's emotional state, he may have been capable of pulling the trigger in spite of the chip in his head. The change in Spike at the end? Maybe the recall of what he was at the beginning caused more parts of himself to be remembered. (Also of note: he doesn't seem to be particularly interested in harming Joyce even before the chip installation as seen in season two). Looking forward to upcoming developments.

Michael Labs

Jontor11

William used to be a romantic poet that lived for love. Now, as a vampire, Spike still lives for love. He had Drusilla, and now he's obsessing over Buffy. In 'Lover's walk' in S3, he said he might be lover's bitch, but he is man enough to admit it. Spike just doesn't know how to live without love, even as a vampire.

Jontor11

I've never been quite sure about the idea of 'All Slayers Have A Death Wish.' For all of Spike's skills in reading people, I just don't see that in Buffy. He's right about how Buffy's friends and family make her different, more part of the world. I've seen others theorize that Spike is projecting, that it's him who has the death wish, but I don't really see that, either. I like the idea that Drusilla and Spike didn't become a real couple until he killed the Chinese slayer. Dru would make him wait until he proved himself. The demon from the 1998 flashback was mentioned and described in Season 3's Lovers Walk episode. Spike recounts to Willow how he found Dru "making out with a chaos demon. Have you ever seen a chaos demon? They're all slime and antlers! Disgusting!"

DanielOrme

We didn't KNOW that Drusilla sired Spike before this episode, but a lot of people sussed it out given their "Two doomed lovers" relationship. There were BIG arguments at the time about the line in "School Hard" where Spike called Angel his sire, but now it's just taken to mean that he was higher in the lineage (Darla -> Angel -> Drusilla -> Spike). It's a big argument to this day over how much a human's personality affects their vampire personality. In "Doppelgangland" Buffy said that they had absolutely nothing to do with each other and then Angel said "Well, actually..." but stopped talking because Buffy gave him A Look. Personally, based on all off the different remarks made over the series, I think that vampires view their previous life with the kind of attachment that we view fiction. They get excited or angry or happy like we do about TV shows, but it's not the same as being IN the show. We may want a show to end a certain way, and so a vampire may want succeed at some goal from their human life, but they may also just get bored with it and change their mind because it's no longer THEIR goal.

JBK405

I know, right! 20 years after being sired🤔

Vicky N

They haven't been blurred, just to confirm.

Antonio

I love the fact that when William is being bitten by Drusilla he actually says ow. I think he's the only person we've seen on this show react with pain from the bite.

Christine Cox

havent finished the end chat so not sure if you noticed but i like that it's implied spike got his leather jacket from the nyc slayer

kachow6969

"It's not murder if you say yes"

Captain Hammer

I'm pretty confident this was not their first time 😅😅

madfem

Think it’s so important to note that William didn’t want his feelings revealed. He’s writing off in a corner by himself and when he takes part in a group conversation his work is snatched from him and read aloud despite his protests. Cecily then ‘demands an honest answer’ and this poor poet who probably never would have admitted any of that has to spill his guts. It’s intense and sad and a bit cringe but what amateur poetry isn’t? Agree that Spike can be obsessive but William was just an innocent simp who got bullied at a party then murdered right after

Isaiah Bryant

ugh this last run of episodes (5x5, 5x6, 5x7) is one of the best in TV ever... you'll really get it after a few rewatches of the show

madfem

CeNedra

‘Spike is obsessed not in love’ fans when 5x07 porch scene: 🫥

Isaiah Bryant

It might not be worth much, but to me, Spike's obsession for Buffy was either born or, at least, exacerbated by how Faith interacted with him while she was in Buffy's body in season 4. And that slowly grew until now. But I might be totally wrong :)

Arronax06

Can’t wait to watch this, we know how much you love a flashback ☺️

Connor and Josh

This is a fun episode. Lots of great flashbacks and the transitions between 1970s Spike fighting the Slayer and Buffy & Spike in the present is particularly cool. Regarding Drusilla making Spike a vampire, in Spike's first appearance he does refer to Angel as his sire; but this episode makes it clear that Spike was being metaphorical when he said that about Angel in 'School Hard'.

James Smith

I'm not the biggest Spike fan but I still love this episode 😍 absolutely brilliant 👏

CeNedra

So, we're finally here! Fool for Love is one of my favorite all time episodes of Buffy. Infinite rewatchability. I've seen it probably 100 times over the years. It's truly a pinnacle episode of not just Buffy but television as a whole. Everything about it is utter perfection from the first scene to the last. The editing and story in the middle is incredible. And in a single episode, it completely reshapes our understanding of Spike and Buffy going all the way back to School Hard and deeply informs our understanding of the rest of the show as well. You could write an entire thesis just on this one episode. And indeed, many people have. James Marsters does a true acting masterclass. I wanted to shout out just what an amazing job Sarah Michelle Gellar does in this episode too. She really does such an amazing job with the full range of reactions from scared at the beginning, to annoyed when she has to order him wings, to repulsed by Spike after hearing about killing the Chinese slayer & again when he tries to kiss her and finally devastated when she finds out there's something wrong with her mom. But I wanted to specifically mention Buffy's utter look of confusion and bewilderment after Spike asks if there's anything he can do. And then as Spike *comforts* Buffy by patting her back. And most importantly, the fact that *she lets him*. SMG conveyed so much emotion in those few seconds just with her facial expressions. Didn't even need any dialogue. Just incredible. Also, a lot of reactors miss this on the first watch, but as the camera pans out, right before the ending credits, you can see Buffy and Spike breathing in sync with each other on the porch! I can't wait to watch this reaction and see what you think.

Land Howard Johnston

Omg girl I’ve been SO excited for this one! Sad I’m too busy to watch right now 😭 but yay something to look forward to for later 😃

Melissa Reynolds

fuck yeah i been waitin

Jorgalorg