Buffy the Vampire Slayer: 4x20 Full Reaction
Added 2024-05-07 04:31:25 +0000 UTC"The Yoko Factor"
Comments
My take on Buffy and Angel is that they're more compelling as exes with a complicated history than as a couple.
Holy Stregas
2024-05-10 08:54:46 +0000 UTCI didn't think you were being literal at the beginning when you said you were out of focus, I thought you meant your mind was elsewhere, I'm glad I was wrong.
slypeartree
2024-05-09 23:00:33 +0000 UTCYes, Spike is manipulative. He is very savvy and street smart. And he is not a "good guy". But he is funny and weirdly charming and surprisingly sensitive (to his own emotions as well as, of course, to others'). He is a complicated character which explains much of the fandoms' complicated feelings toward him. All this to say, Cass, you are definitely not alone in your feelings toward Spike and there is A LOT to unpack... for all of us!
StephanieB
2024-05-09 15:21:55 +0000 UTCI too, have a crush on Spike
vee xo!
2024-05-09 00:18:14 +0000 UTCBuffy’s ego wasn’t the driving force when she initially said she’d go back to the caves alone IMO. She had just seen Forrest, who had military combat training get killed and she barely escaped herself, so it would make sense that she wouldn’t want the Scoobies help if it meant them coming into direct contact with Adam.
Shaun J 🦄
2024-05-08 23:23:26 +0000 UTCIn that scene Tara was actually wearing Willow's cardigan so I think that is why Oz could smell Willow.
Kazza
2024-05-08 21:49:03 +0000 UTCI will always say that Buffy & Angel are soulmates, doesn’t matter if they’re actually togheter or not. It’s just something that will always be between them. And I think that only intensified AFTER they broke up. We actually got a hint of that being canon when Buffy could feel his presence during the Pangs episode. They are both “warriors for good”, fighting for the same cause even when not together. And it’s nice to know they’ll always have each other’s backs. “Magnetism” IS the right word for them!
codrut
2024-05-08 11:27:27 +0000 UTCCass acknowledging the Bangel cuteness. Love to to see it. We kind of knew he might show up because in the previous Angel episode, Wesley asks Angel if he wants to go after Buffy (after their fight). Angel says that he does. The diabolical GLEE tweenybopper me used to have when watching Angel throw Riley around in this episode 😂. I think the division between the Scoobies has been sown rather well all season long. It's a lot more obvious on rewatches. Also, Willow saying she's interested in taking drama illustrates how far she's come as a character. Back in season one, in the nightmare/puppet episode(s) she was really afraid of performing onstage.
Rebecca
2024-05-08 08:54:05 +0000 UTCMy thoughts... Buffy and Angel are showing a better and more balanced dynamic as friends than as a couple and it presents better for both of them in the relationship department. Seems that few "doomed" romances see that kind of end. Riley? His actions leading him to Adam might be easier if not simpler to explain. Riley is conflicted in his sense of duty to his comrades-in-arms due to his being their leader for a length of time that I can't determine... those ties run deep in spite of a betrayal via the Initiative. He hears the squad needing help and goes to help, running smack into an annoyed Angel. Then he hears about Forrest's death, and on top of the macho thing through testosterone poisoning, he feels duty bound to make somebody answer for the death of a close comrade... specifically Adam, which is ill-advised.
Michael Labs
2024-05-08 01:47:37 +0000 UTCThe use of Drunk Giles in this episode is a stroke of genius. Not only is he hilarious ("Bloody hell...") but also seeing how Cass was spinning out that no one was putting two and two together regarding Spike, it adds authenticity to that scene. Most likely sober Giles would have figured it out pretty quickly.
StephanieB
2024-05-08 01:20:51 +0000 UTCI always thought Riley went to see Adam to kill him because of Forest, Buffy told him Forest was dead and Riley took it it upon himself to go after him.
David Allan
2024-05-07 22:47:37 +0000 UTCExactly and that was the point. The more vague they were, the more they could get past the censors. Don’t wanna say too much to avoid spoilers but the writers all say that in order to get Willow/tara stuff in the show they had to fight for that and throughout s4, we have seen them push and push trying to get things through with each Willow and Tara scene.
Cait
2024-05-07 22:14:37 +0000 UTCI love repo, that cast was so weird. I love explaining it to people and watching their eyebrows rise into their hairline😆
Cait
2024-05-07 22:10:11 +0000 UTCYeah I agree, Faith is like an immediate button push for Buffy.
Cait
2024-05-07 22:07:07 +0000 UTCThat is classic Whedon. All his early stuff liked to contrast feminine strength with male weakness. The end of episode 1 of Firefly is my favorite example of it when you have Book kneeling and seeking solace from Inara.
Dissonant Bard
2024-05-07 22:04:41 +0000 UTCThe complexity and depth of the Buffy/Angel relationship really comes through here. I think some people dismiss it as a swoony/doomed romance, but there's so much more to it. Also, I love it when Buffy lets both guys know she's not going to tolerate anymore "testosterone poisoning." 😂
DanielOrme
2024-05-07 21:56:00 +0000 UTCSpike's diagnosis of the situation was exactly right. He's been around the gang a lot this season and it's been well established that he's a fiendishly skillful reader of people and situations. As he told Adam, all the cracks were already there. All he needed was to stir up the s**t a little (he's good at that, too) and the deeper problems emerged.
DanielOrme
2024-05-07 21:35:41 +0000 UTCVery true. I remember watching it at the time and not being quite sure that it was a romantic relationship until the "I am, you know ... yours" scene. And I know there were some in my viewing circle who still didn't see it until ep 4x19. That's how carefully ambiguous the writing had to be at the time. Even the sexual overtones of the spellcasting scenes went past a lot of us. In our defense, a gay relationship involving an important character was something we would never expect or be looking for on a broadcast network show in 1999.
DanielOrme
2024-05-07 21:19:57 +0000 UTCAlso Angel addressing Riley as "boy," which is fair (if condescending) considering Angel is 200+ years old.
DanielOrme
2024-05-07 21:07:25 +0000 UTCThere's a literal physical computer chip in Spike's brain. It won't let him hurt individuals it reads as human without giving him intense pain. No brain rewiring, no distinction between good and evil.
G. Smith
2024-05-07 20:38:57 +0000 UTCTara and Willow may or may not have been in a sexual relationship, but I would agree that they haven't put a label on it until "I am, you know." or maybe later on.
G. Smith
2024-05-07 20:36:35 +0000 UTCI know who you’re talking about. He is so condescending.
Vicky N
2024-05-07 19:35:33 +0000 UTCI like Buffy/Angel's friend energy much more than their couple energy. You are the first reactor who actually got me to go back and watch Angel from the beginning, as I really enjoy your commentary. Riley's insecurities juxtaposed with Angel's confident jealousy is just great. It is in both of their characters and gives Buffy a chance to redeem herself as the one who doesn't get sidetracked by the trivial. The look Angel gives when he says he doesn't like him and Buffy recognizing it as his unneeded approval is a heartwarming scene.
Dissonant Bard
2024-05-07 17:50:53 +0000 UTCAll right Cass there's a guy here who's always in the comments of the (all female) reactors I follow telling them to question their attraction to Spike, to think about their double standards on Anya and whatever male character he wants them to have empathy for, and other similar things. My suggestion is : ignore him. He comes off as slightly obsessed with making women acknowledge that they have some sort of bias around power imbalance in gendered dynamics, which to me is a big red flag. I'm gonna block him now cuz I've had enough of him.
lorney tunes
2024-05-07 16:57:11 +0000 UTCFor example, Oz smelling Willow all over Tara wasn’t because they hugged (literally in the scene) , but because it was meant to emphasize that they had sex.
Cait
2024-05-07 15:43:55 +0000 UTCI think the issue is this is a 20+ year old show and the gay relationship wasn’t allowed to be explicitly shown on air. It had to be just alluded to. So if you’re not used to identifying that subtext, it can kind of go over your head. Nowadays, you would see them speak of their romance, kiss,or have a sex scene. That wouldn’t be the case back when this aired and it’s almost comical, considering what they do show for straight couples, like Buffy & Riley and Xander & Anya. But unfortunately, the networks wouldnt allow lesbian/gay relationships to be depicted so blatantly with a main character of a show like Willow. To add further context, Willow & Tara were one of the first canon lesbian couple on network tv.
Cait
2024-05-07 15:42:33 +0000 UTCYea Buffy was wearing the same outfit she had on in last Angel episode with the curls, so she just got back. I think she was needing someone for emotional support.
Morgan Williams
2024-05-07 14:19:47 +0000 UTCI really feel like Buffy was so upset and angry on Angel last episode that anymore Angel could have said wouldn't have mattered.
Morgan Williams
2024-05-07 14:11:11 +0000 UTCYea Willow and Tara had been together before Oz episode. It was just all hush hush, even a lil bit from us viewers not just the main characters. That's why Oz said he could smell Willow ALL over Tara. They were doin more than hugging, it was implied there was something goin on with them before, and we only got to see so much.
Morgan Williams
2024-05-07 14:04:31 +0000 UTCCass, can't you see that Spike is manipulating your emotions? My god, woman, you're like putty in his cold lifeless hands.
Tumbili
2024-05-07 12:34:42 +0000 UTCThis
Melissa Reynolds
2024-05-07 12:22:35 +0000 UTCIt’s completely normal to have a crush on spike, lord knows I have for like 15 years. Lol
Alysha
2024-05-07 11:47:26 +0000 UTCyes it is, it drove me crazy during editing and i’m so sorry😭
Cassie
2024-05-07 11:47:02 +0000 UTCThe reaction of that ending was priceless
anticonstructivist55
2024-05-07 11:41:14 +0000 UTCLastly, loved the brief moment of self-awareness when you had to question your attraction to spike. I think the Buffy fandom could use more of this and can't wait to see where things go if you do end up deconstructing that further in the future.
Brandon Scott
2024-05-07 11:36:06 +0000 UTCAlso, I love your reluctance to feel your feelings around Buffy and Angel, lol. I get it and you're 100% right, I think. Also, was it just me or did standing Angel next to Riley reeeaally make Riley look like a "college kid" standing next to a grown man? No? Just me?
Brandon Scott
2024-05-07 11:34:19 +0000 UTCStarting with Riley, I have noticed one of the things that the fandom as a whole tends to miss is why his attachment to Buffy, his feelings for her, are so scary or anxiety inducing for him. We need to remember that Riley is a soldier. He was all the way up to special forces training before he joined the initiative, and that level of indoctrination goes all the way to a persons core identity. Enter Buffy, and you not only have the standard, "What if I get hurt" anxiety but you have Riley, farm fed Iowa boy, superstar soldier, betraying his unite, his superiors and his country - not to mention, his entire way of looking at the world - essentially for Buffy's way of seeing the world. The loss of security in his own identity cannot be overstated. So the notion that she might have "hooked up" with Angel and, as an extension, be leaving him - however unfounded - would be devastatingly terrifying because the ramifications would go way beyond the ordinary fallout of a love lost.
Brandon Scott
2024-05-07 11:32:33 +0000 UTCI second all points
Brandon Scott
2024-05-07 11:23:49 +0000 UTC"i kinda have a crush on spike" girl, join the club
x_Rhi_x
2024-05-07 11:04:16 +0000 UTCRepo is a great Halloween Rock musical.
spikeysnack
2024-05-07 09:39:29 +0000 UTCJames Marsters is a good lookin man, no doubt why you low key would have a crush on Spike
carly powell
2024-05-07 08:09:37 +0000 UTCI think your camera is focused on the couch, leaving your face slightly out of focus in this reaction.
The Testimony of Mushroom
2024-05-07 07:49:56 +0000 UTCEven if Tara and Willow were technically being romantic and we had to read between the lines, I don't think it was an official relationship until Willow was forced to choose between Tara and Oz. It's kinda what launched them forward and made Willow reflect on her feelings for Tara. We see Willow grieving over her ended relationship with Oz this season but she realistically didn't take alot of time to be alone and reflect. She was in some ways, distracted by Tara and it helped her move on without really facing it. When Oz showed up, she had to face it again. My favorite scene of this whole episode is with drunk Giles and the fight. It really wraps up how everyone has been feeling throughout the season. We have caught glimpses of it in every episode, but pay little attention to it because there are bigger things going on. That's probably why each character has suppressed their own problems, due to the greater evil they have to overcome. The fight felt very real, awkward, and difficult which is something I've come to love about this show. You really believe the emotions and motives each character is portraying. Just one example of more great acting to come.
Ashley Simmons
2024-05-07 06:43:59 +0000 UTCIf you're digging Giles' singing, add Repo! The Genetic Opera to your watch list. It's a pretty terrible but pretty fun rock opera, and Anthony Head is one of the leads. Totally worth it for him.
Jon D Arthur
2024-05-07 05:40:52 +0000 UTCI agree with you. They were close but I don't see evidence of a sexual relationship before then. The spell they did to see Buffy's essence had a sexual component, but that was the spell. No one looks cuter with a gaping head wound than Buffy. I think Buffy's relationship with Riley is over shadowed by Buffy and Angel not being over each other. If they ever will be. Like Spike said in 308 Lover's Walk, You'll be in love till it kills you both.
Bud Haven
2024-05-07 05:35:44 +0000 UTCLet's go Cassie! This is just what I needed right now!
Ashley Simmons
2024-05-07 05:24:42 +0000 UTC
