Rogue Damage in 2024
Added 2024-09-16 17:15:15 +0000 UTCNot what I was expecting...
Comments
I don't think great weapon master works with true strike's magic action. It only works on the attack action
Infinitejest
2024-12-03 01:14:11 +0000 UTCTy Chris
Jamien Ousey
2024-09-23 00:20:18 +0000 UTCI’m currently working on a ranger hunter 5 rogue assassin 15. So far I’m out damaging everyone!
Jason Raper
2024-09-19 03:10:51 +0000 UTCTrue Strike requires a weapon that is worth a copper piece
Robert Lavallee
2024-09-19 01:39:21 +0000 UTCTrue strike with Psychic Blades?
Jesse Forney
2024-09-18 17:52:29 +0000 UTCMy Favourite rouge build is a Arocokra swashbuckler. Swoop into battle, do your attacks as above, and then fly out of range. No opportunity attacks (swashbuckler) and no melee (flight).
Peter
2024-09-18 08:42:24 +0000 UTCWell, it goes without saying that Rogue should be given something other than just +1 weapon. Once per turn damage boost or special effects like increased crit range suits Rogue much better than plain +X.
Kaien
2024-09-17 19:22:27 +0000 UTCSpeaking of rogue, I'd love to see a video breaking down stealth and hiding rules in the 2024 book
Zachary Shuford
2024-09-17 16:21:51 +0000 UTCI like to think GWM applying to ranged heavy weapons but requiring and increasing Str is a fair trade off in allowing ranged weapons the same damage increase but at a larger investment. It also finally gives Dex martials a reason to consider a Str score higher than 8
Fred de Jong
2024-09-17 07:11:51 +0000 UTCAh yep I forgot heavy crossbows had a 13 dex and not a 13 str requirement. Either way a cleaner stat spread. Doesn’t matter for this build, but it’s a shame, then, that great weapon master has a strength requirement and only increases your strength given that this is a useless stat for a Heavy ranged weapon user
Chad S
2024-09-17 03:17:41 +0000 UTCHeavy crossbow requires a 13 Dex the 13 Str is just for the GWM feat which won't work anyways so you can still use the Heavy Crossbow but put the points elsewhere. You can also get your Dex up to 20 quicker since there is no point in taking GWM on this build.
Thomas LeBoeuf
2024-09-17 02:16:26 +0000 UTCIf you can’t benefit from GWM, is there much reason to use a heavy crossbow? Would make the stat spread on the build a bit nicer I think.
Chad S
2024-09-17 02:04:09 +0000 UTCWell, damage-wise dual wielder rogue may be a bit better (tho probably not by much), but durability is a main issue here. If you go for dual wielder you will only have max. 18AC (not much better than 16-17AC you would get without dipping). Your hp is rather lacking and if you use your BA to attack then you will most likely not use cunning action to avoid being surrendered by enemies. I have doubts if you will live to see that spectacular damage at level 5. We can also calculate that level 5 more or less: you will have 3 attacks for 7.5dmg each (3.5 + 4 from dex) with normal chance to hit equal 0.6. I will also assume that with 3 attacks you have 100% chances to sneak attack so we get about: 3 * 7.5 * 60% + 3 * 3.5 * 5% + 2 * 3.5 = 21. Probably more given occasional advantage. It's also hard to calculate crit chances on sneak attack with multiple attacks so I left it out. I would assume that you will not go over 25dpr and its probably the best level of that build. Meanwhile, Chris's build makes not much less damage with much better chances to survive so yeah, I prefer his.
Kaien
2024-09-16 22:12:24 +0000 UTCGood point! I had not considered that
Treantmonk's Temple
2024-09-16 21:28:01 +0000 UTCDamn, that's almost exactly the build of my Elf Assassin. I also use True Strike (flavoured as telekinesis), dip Fighter for Archery and even similar feats. The most notable difference is that I take Elven Accuracy at level 4, but if my DM will not allow it I will probably just go with your version. Edit: tho when we have Elven Accuracy then Archery doesn't seem as needed so you can actually go full Rogue and grab free crit in first round of combat if you expect to go to 20th level
Kaien
2024-09-16 21:27:58 +0000 UTCChris, I don't think great weapon master will work for the optimized build. GWM specifically states the attack must be part of the attack action. If you are using True Strike the attack will be part of the magic action. Otherwise I love the video and it's great to see the Rogue isn't as bad as we all feared it was.
Thomas LeBoeuf
2024-09-16 20:22:04 +0000 UTCRogue strongest class of 2024, CONFIRMED. Hahahaha. Great video as always Chris.
Keegan MBG
2024-09-16 20:05:21 +0000 UTCVery encouraging to see! I've always found the rogue very fun, so good to see there are ways to keep up in terms of damage (and still get cool utility/control/skill things)
Zach P
2024-09-16 19:39:11 +0000 UTCWorks on paper but in practice ending your turn next to an enemy as a Rogue doesn't usually end well. You're going to go down way more often in combat with this build. While you can wear heavy armor it comes at the expense of disadvantage at stealth and fewer points to allocate to Int or Wis for your Rogue skills making you less effective out of combat. I'd personally sacrifice a bit of damage to be a better overall rogue.
Thomas LeBoeuf
2024-09-16 19:28:33 +0000 UTCProblem with a true strike rogue is that it looks a lot better without magical weapons. If you add a +2 magical weapon at lvl10, monk will do 8*hit chance more dpr if their base was the same. TWF however, can do up to 3 attacks, hence is much more in line with other martials in terms of scaling (though a glass canon for sure)
Alex D.
2024-09-16 19:09:43 +0000 UTCSo I was a bit off in my assessment of Treantmonk's route, but let me point out one thing that led me down the dual wielder route. You do get 3 attacks at level 5. Primary attack with a scimitar or dagger gets you the nick trigger, which you then get to make another attack with the short sword and vex mastery as part of the same attack. Dual wielder also triggers, because it is separate from nick, so you get to make another shorts sword attack as a bonus action, which you may have advantage on, and your first attack next turn may have advantage. If you dip fighter at 1, you get some ranged weapon masteries, and you get the two weapon fighting style, allowing you to add dex to both the nick attack and dual wielder attack. 3 attacks on a rogue starting at level 5 I think out damages the builds you mentioned in early levels. Especially if you go assassin at 3 and get advantage on those attacks on the first round of combat.
Nicholas Comeau
2024-09-16 18:56:04 +0000 UTCLove the video as always. If you fire twice, your chance to get a crit on your sneak attack is not 5%, it is chance you crit on first shot + chance you miss on first shot * 5% . Also, I think you are probably better off firing once normally then using sharpshooter on the second shot only if you hit. Of course sharpshooter -5 +10 doesn't exist anymore so we don't really need that crazy math anymore
Daniel Renzi
2024-09-16 18:13:33 +0000 UTCGonna go out on a limb here, without watching the video, and say you realized, like me after number crunching, rogue damage is actually pretty decent after you take into account nick mastery, vex mastery, and dual wielder feat (+Heavy armor proficiency and two weapon fighting style if you dip fighter 1).
Nicholas Comeau
2024-09-16 17:27:33 +0000 UTC
