Decoding Material for Yuval Noah Harari
Added 2024-03-19 01:07:36 +0000 UTCYuval is our next decoding episode and this is the material we settled on. Long-form, wide-ranging, and highlights Harari's strengths and weaknesses. I've listened and have a lot of thoughts and Matt will listen soon. We will record it sometime this week so if you want to play along here's the source material to work from.
Also, if you want to make us aware of any other material or points, please add in the comments below.
Comments
Agreed that his views are influenced by the Buddhist central tenet which is to free oneself and humanity from suffering and samsara. But that's not just vipassana. That's Buddhism. Theravada seems the least culty. I've been to several 10 day sits and while yes they teach their beliefs (life is suffering and only practice will save you), and they want you to return and do other sits, they are not charging you anything, they are not a high control group, they do not demand you to do anything outside of the mediation retreat. Yes the retreat is quite militant with the hours of sitting. But then you're done once you leave. Other Buddhist orgs like Mahayana sects are much more demanding. I've been a part of 3 Buddhist organizations. Goenka's was the tamest. Maybe something is going on with their books that would categorize them as a cult.. But certainly not other called characteristics. If anybody has other information let me know.
JC Larke
2024-04-30 03:17:04 +0000 UTCThank you. That's useful information.
Sonje Finnestad
2024-03-28 01:41:32 +0000 UTCI did one of their retreats years ago. It's culty as fuck. The fact that Harari can sit through one of their retreats and not notice the overt manipulation throughout is an enormous red flag. I wrote this article about my experience there: https://medium.com/@williammhaigen/vipassana-meditation-nightmare-a-cautionary-tale-8126f102ffa7
Will
2024-03-23 22:51:45 +0000 UTCThanks, Roland. This helps to explain some of my frustration with the book because it didn’t make sense to me that large population groups could function like smaller ones. The changes that had to be made at the Burning Man festival were telling. Unfortunately, I could hardly read the second one on my phone, but I will try to find another way because it looks very helpful.
Linda Sears
2024-03-23 13:07:44 +0000 UTCI’ll check it out, thanks! The subtitle on the Smith paper seems a little…acerbic? Perhaps a little resentful of Graeber’s success? “Shoddy Scholarship in Support of Pedestrian Conclusions.” It’s a good thing David Graeber died in 2020, otherwise he would have been honor bound to beat the shit out of Smith at the next Teotihuacan conference.
Christopher McLaughlin
2024-03-22 22:58:48 +0000 UTCChris kindly pointed me to some criticism of "The Dawn of Everything", I'll share the links here. I read the first one and found it very interesting. > If you want to see some of the reasons I’m critical of (some) of the claims they make, see: https://escholarship.org/content/qt3wc3p3hf/qt3wc3p3hf.pdf or https://doi.org/10.5281/zenodo.5907061#.YfFv2KME804.twitter.
Roland Weber
2024-03-22 22:56:20 +0000 UTCOne of the historians I mentioned, Patrick Wyman, created the excellent podcasts The Fall of Rome and Tides of History. Season 4 of Tides of History starts with early humans and works its way up through ancient civilizations. I highly recommend both of his history podcasts!
Christopher McLaughlin
2024-03-21 22:08:48 +0000 UTCIs this it? https://podcasts.apple.com/de/podcast/the-diary-of-a-ceo-with-steven-bartlett/id1291423644?i=1000641266529
mobitobi
2024-03-21 16:40:05 +0000 UTCThat is disturbing.
Linda Sears
2024-03-21 16:27:45 +0000 UTCHarari is also a member of the S.N.Goenka vipassana movement, one of the cultier manifestations of the Buddhist modernism thing. It’s very culty if not a cult outright and definitely much more than the average Theravadan vipassana situation. They have centres around the world staffed by volunteers who have been made terrified of the outside world to one degree or another and all financed by donations extracted after 10 day silent retreats where all you hear is the leaders (Goenka) booming voice over the intercoms and videos of him in the evening telling you how to interpret your experience. At the end of the 10 day ‘course’ he hammers home how important to your own liberation from samsara the donating of your money and time to his organisation is, and so the centres have proliferated across the world. Harari dedicated Sapiens to S.N.Goenka and the themes of Buddhist modernism are weaved throughout his books, presented as self-evident truths
Minotaurus Rex
2024-03-21 13:08:22 +0000 UTCThis recent interview includes many of the same ideas, but he does address the Israeli/Gaza conflict towards the end for those who may be interested. I watched it last night. In my opinion, the format is better than the Bartlett interview: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FWcJ8rTKtmw
Linda Sears
2024-03-21 12:30:38 +0000 UTCThanks for the list of alternatives to Hassan. Does anyone know of a well-researched book about early humans and societies of the Paleolithic, Mesolithic, and Neolithic? I got through about half of the Dawn of Everything. I liked that it made early human pre-history and history more complex, but I also wondered if I should jettison the traditional narratives.
Linda Sears
2024-03-21 12:18:30 +0000 UTCI haven't watched video yet - just the first seconds. But I just want to throw this aspect out there, with so source material to back it up: We have the "AI doom" / transhumanist gurus, among whom Harari is perhaps an archbishop (and E. Musk the Jester). They have very much in common with old-school doomsday cult leaders: "Humankind is on a very dangerous path, not understanding what will happen. Doom is upon us in the near future. Behold, for I have insight: Only those that heed my call will have a chance, to go to Mars / merge with AI / etc. See how I know the only way to accomplish this (Mars, transhumanism etc.). See all my Followers who acknowledge my Genius and worship at my feet, feeding my Ego (which was already blown up beyond anything healthy)." Lots of other parallels can be pointed out. And to Christopher, I DO think Harari has more than enough narsissism to go around (even though neither me nor Christopher are his shrink and can't diagnose willy-nilly etc. etc.). He has a soft-spoken and almost frail appearance (hell, it seems if you sneeze on him too hard he will end up in a different time zone). Don't let that fool you.
Gaute Lund
2024-03-21 11:48:14 +0000 UTCLots of bad criticisms in those sources too.
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-03-21 04:39:31 +0000 UTCI enjoyed the video. I think Harari speaks in a similar manner to a secular guru, but lacks the narcissism to build a nice cult following. Sapiens is a really easy read, so that was convenient, but then I read David Graeber and David Wengrow’s The Dawn of Everything and had to question everything I had just read in Sapiens. If only we had an anthropologist to turn to, too bad we’re stuck with a pair of psychologists. Just finished the Hassan Piker podcast. I’ve consumed a lot of leftist media over the last 20 years, and fuck if I’m gonna let that himbo be a representative for leftist Americans. This is the first time I’ve heard him speak and boy is he one dumb handsome guy! There are a lot of bright people on the left who I listen to: law/history academic Samuel Moyn, journalist Doug Henwood, intellectual historian Daniel Bessner and analyst Derek Davison, media theorist Douglas Rushkoff, historian Patrick Wyman, novelists like Kim Stanley Robinson, Iain M Banks, China Mieville, economist Steve Keen, and Friend of the Pod philosopher Natalie Wynn. To name just a few. Anyone looking for substance on the left check out these folks output, not goddamn Twitch. It’s embarrassing to be lumped in with Hassan Piker, he’s just a dumbass who loves anime, video games, and Mao.
Christopher McLaughlin
2024-03-21 03:21:26 +0000 UTCI have never read any of his books and only know of Harari from this interview, another interview I saw of him earlier this year, and what Matt and Chris talked about with his views about human rights being fictional, so I tried to come into this with an open mind. I really was not keen on the over-the-top begining of the episode because it creates more fear or anxiety than necessary, but that isn't Harari's fault. One thing that puzzles me is the whole idea of people's brains being directly connected to AI. Personally, I cannot imagine what it would be like to have access to constant information flooding my brain. I think I would self-destruct from overload/overstimulation. Not to mention, there are all kinds of privacy issues that come into play. As for the bulk of the interview, I didn't find much that he said to be objectional since I don't view him as predicting the future but just speculating on possibilities based on what we know right now, which is pretty much all we can do. I am probably biased since I'm a pessimist, which means I'd rather be aware of the potential dangers of any new technology than blindly walk into disasters. I really don't like the idea of us, especially the younger generation, being the guinea pigs that lead to the brighter future for people a hundred years from now. Anyway, I'm curious to hear your thoughts on this guru.
Linda Sears
2024-03-20 20:38:03 +0000 UTCAs additional material, a 35 minute interview from last October, about the terror attacks on Israel. I think that both the interviewer and Harari did a decent job there. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTQ2Hn9uyxg
Roland Weber
2024-03-20 19:54:39 +0000 UTCI’ll be interested to see how he is decoded! I’ve read one of his books and listened to him here and to me it all makes good sense.
Lucy
2024-03-20 19:54:08 +0000 UTCYeah definite motivated reasoning there
Mark K
2024-03-20 16:49:05 +0000 UTCThe discovery institute criticism is that he's biased toward evolution and doesn't consider intelligent design. I guess he's doing something right.
Sean Osborn
2024-03-20 11:27:57 +0000 UTCOr wear sunglasses
Adam Sher
2024-03-20 03:49:24 +0000 UTCHe strikes me as a pretentious idiot posing as a deep thinker.
Sonje Finnestad
2024-03-20 03:38:54 +0000 UTCHere’s what ChatGPT 4 gave me: Yuval Noah Harari's work, particularly his books like *Sapiens* and *Homo Deus*, has garnered both widespread acclaim and significant criticism. Here are some of the major criticisms from various sources: 1. **Factual Inaccuracies and Scientific Criticism**: Harari's work has been criticized for containing factual inaccuracies. For instance, *Current Affairs* highlights an error regarding the geographical distribution of cheetahs and chimpanzees and misrepresentations about the Waorani people's history and the role of state in reducing violence. It also mentions Harari's overly optimistic view on pandemics prior to the COVID-19 crisis, suggesting that his projections can sometimes miss the mark dramatically [oai_citation:1,The Dangerous Populist Science of Yuval Noah Harari ❧ Current Affairs](https://www.currentaffairs.org/2022/07/the-dangerous-populist-science-of-yuval-noah-harari). 2. **Philosophical and Ideological Bias**: The *Discovery Institute* criticizes Harari for presenting his own ideological biases as facts, especially his materialistic view of human history and the evolution of cognitive abilities as a matter of "pure chance." This critique focuses on Harari's naturalistic assumptions and his views on religion as an evolutionary tool for fostering group cooperation, arguing that these positions overlook the complexity and potential designed nature of religion [oai_citation:2,A Scientifically Weak and Ethically Uninspiring Vision of Human Origins: Review of Yuval Noah Harari’s Sapiens | Discovery Institute](https://www.discovery.org/a/review-of-yuval-noah-hararis-sapiens/). 3. **Intellectual Consistency and Approach**: An article from *Tablet Magazine* points out what it sees as a fatal inconsistency in Harari's work. It argues that Harari offers a grand narrative that undermines traditional narratives while failing to acknowledge his own narrative's subjective underpinnings. This critique raises questions about the intellectual and philosophical consistency of Harari's arguments, especially his views on artificial intelligence, knowledge, and human experience [oai_citation:3,A Fatal Inconsistency in the Work of Yuval Noah Harari - Tablet Magazine](https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/yuval-noah-harari-campus-week). 4. **Relativism and the Dismissal of Human Concepts**: *Philosophy Now* argues that Harari's contention that many aspects of human society are mere "myths" — including human rights, ethical codes, and political systems — undermines his ability to effectively address anti-democratic threats. This critique suggests Harari's approach may lack a solid philosophical foundation to support the societal changes he advocates for, critiquing his relativistic stance on the objective validity of social and political principles [oai_citation:4,Sapiens by Yuval Noah Harari | Issue 154 | Philosophy Now](https://philosophynow.org/issues/154/Sapiens_by_Yuval_Noah_Harari).
Mark K
2024-03-20 01:09:04 +0000 UTCYeah, I was expecting a Big History Malcolm Gladwell but it's more like secular soothsayer piling speculation on top of his lay understanding of topics in the zeitgeist (AI, Putin, populism, etc). I wonder if his books are as trite and dumb as this interview. By chance, before listening to this I was reading Mark Koyama's essay on the political economy of Dune (after seeing the second movie last night) and I think it serves as a good contrast of what is missing from Harari: an engaging introduction to some ideas from economic history (and their limits), how it might relate to Frank Herbert's intellectual influences, the interesting parallel between the "Golden Path" in the books and Acemoglu and Robinson's recent "narrow corridor" idea. All consistent with the fictional universe. Seems like a much better use of imagination than whatever Harari is doing.
rooftowel
2024-03-19 22:31:15 +0000 UTCThanks for the info. That puts his comments about hacking into his clones into perspective.
Linda Sears
2024-03-19 18:22:29 +0000 UTCSteve Bartlett sold a company and started this podcast (possibly with a break in between the two). I’d call his overall podcast vibe as an optimizer where he will show you, through his guest interviews, to get rich, have great sex, and hack your body to live your best life.
Adam Sher
2024-03-19 17:20:43 +0000 UTCA lot of claims from Yuval feel doubtful to me. He must have intimate knowledge about all parts of humanity to be able to speak about what trends are becoming more or less prevalent in so many areas of our existence. He is also a very good guesser of the future lol
Lee Kebum
2024-03-19 16:37:34 +0000 UTC"One of the brightest minds on Planet Earth" Well then, I guess you must try to figure out what he's talking about.
Trees
2024-03-19 13:36:39 +0000 UTCCould someone clarify for me who the interviewer is?
Linda Sears
2024-03-19 12:22:59 +0000 UTCI'd have said don't bother until recently as there's nothing to the guy beyond a soulless desire for money and attention. But since he started paltforming and promoting the worst kind of science free grifter because he's invested in their supplement brand he probably makes the list.
Unfitforpurpose
2024-03-19 08:44:02 +0000 UTCSo much decoding podtent to keep up with. I’ll have to start listening at 2X!
William Carpenter
2024-03-19 03:33:29 +0000 UTCNot sure if Bartlett himself counts as a guru but he certainly has no qualms with platforming them. Have you guys considered decoding him?
Will
2024-03-19 02:18:42 +0000 UTCWe did cover it in a special episode dedicated to that!
Christopher Kavanagh
2024-03-19 01:34:55 +0000 UTCI hope you'll touch on this recent Twitter firestorm (widely misinterpreted, I know). "Take a human being, cut him open, look inside, you will find the heart, the kidneys, neurons, hormones, DNA, but you won’t find any rights."
William Carpenter
2024-03-19 01:17:21 +0000 UTC
