Why it's not possible to synchronize turn signals (but also absolutely is)

BMW 🤣

Ben Prescott

Wow, just wow. Being a total car nerd, I knew all this (mostly, didn't know about the Japanese ultra analog units, how typically overkill). Brilliant video. Thanks for the PSA about "drop in" LED "bulbs". Thank you. Glad to have an authoritative source to point to when I rail about this to other "car guys" that I know. It's totally ridiculous to replace vintage car bulbs with LEDs. My 1987 Toyota MR2 has most of the original Toshiba bulbs (Japanese overkill again). From an economic point of view, given the cost of LED vs incandescent, LEDs make no sense except for the automotive equivalent of dick measuring at the bar (can I say that?).

Now that we have a Traverse, we have a total of one car with the possibility of synchronization. The other two have those electromechanical flashers (the second type shown), for (almost) certain. None of them have the thermal flashers, though.

Citroen made my favorite car ad ever like 15 years ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4dilUbkP-PI

Stephen Gillie

Love the subtitles in the last 15 or so seconds 🤣

Seth Hensinger

My favorite non-mechanical turn signal sounds are from Citroen. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bl2sz61tNkU&ab_channel=sportbilen

Garrett Rabenold

We're aware over here. Now that it's back in the care of who actually owns it (my dad) it's only being charged outside. My folks don't even have a garage they could be charging it in. And GM has been in very good contact with them over this. It sounds like they're going to be getting basically an entirely new battery.

Technology Connections

I'm glad you're concerned, but there was very little risk here. If this were something I was rigging up to be permanent, I would have used one. But for this little demo, about the most risky thing I ever did was hook up the flashers which needed a ground. Otherwise the + and - side of the battery were never anywhere near each other, and even when they were close, the leads I used from the battery can barely handle 6 or 7 amps. Not that I'd want them to, but they'd surely burn up pretty quick.

Technology Connections

You may find https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1993/01/11/the-flash-of-genius interesting

Bob Frankston

Alec, there is ongoing service action of General Motors for Chevy Bolt produced 2019-2022 (model year of course). https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/news/gm-expands-chevy-bolt-battery-recall-to-every-model-sold-worldwide/ar-AANylrN TL;DR SHIT CAN BE ON FIRE BRO aka "in rare circumstances battery pack can ignite" Though you've might be interested as i've seen one on video

Mike Litoris

Enjoyed the video, but please, when connecting things to high current sources like a car battery, put in a fuse. One slip and you've suddenly arc welded two things together that you didn't intend to.

Gavin

Also, relevant something something: https://xkcd.com/165/

Mo Cassidy

Isn't that the "lane changer" feature? The idea is that to indicate a lane change, you don't have to turn the signal on fully; just tap it briefly, and it flashes for a few seconds then shuts off (since you won't have turned the wheel far enough to cause it to turn off automatically). I suppose some signals have that delay even if they were on fully, rather than held just short of "fully on". My driving instructor insisted we ignore that and always turn the signal on fully, so I still do.

legraf

A somewhat related thing to look at related to this is kitchen timers. One thing I have noticed about my favorite kitchen timer (the previous version of the Thermoworks Extra Big and Loud Kitchen Timer) is that the alarm cycle is always running. When the timer completes, you usually hear a partial chirp from the speaker since the speaker was activated in the middle of the chirp cycle. I am not sure if that is a common thing for kitchen timers, or something unique to the industrial design.

Colin Blair

By the way, I always like to make sure I get my 60-120 flashes per minute finished in the first 2 seconds of the minute, at about 50Hz. No point in dilly dallying!

Mo Cassidy

Oh! Oh! I've noticed this in Fords, too. It's fairly clever, but also as you say... such a weird thing to bother addressing.

Technology Connections

A relay as far as I understand it, is an electrically operated switch. As in, you apply power, the relay toggles state, you remove power, it toggles back. The turn signal thingy toggles itself, it's not an electrically controlled switch. Not sure if that makes it not a relay. I think it is in some cases implemented using a relay and a capacitor in a feedback loop to toggle the relay part of the turn signal blinker.

Lennart Sorensen

I believe the rule is that only emergency vehicles are allowed to have *forward-facing* flashing red lights. The rear combo brake/turn lights will flash red when you activate the 4-way flashers. I suppose if you drove backwards with the 4-ways on people might think you are a firetruck :-)

nobody

"Only emergency vehicles are allowed to have flashing red lights" Did a law recently change? Several new car models have a "flash 3x" feature when you press the brake pedal. It will flash 3x then hold steady, alerting nearby drivers more effectively to your stopping. Ambulances have had this type of brake light flash for at least a decade, probably because they've been allowed to have flashing red lights for longer. But now it seems cars can have them too - how long before this gets mandated like the 3rd brake light? Speaking of 3rd brake lights, saw yet another car where this was the only remaining stopping indicator. Thankfully this decades-old car's 3rd light was composed of LEDs, whose naturally long lifespan are keeping drivers safe even today.

Stephen Gillie

My Camry also has amber turn signals. I've attributed this virtue to being a world car, making it cheaper to supplement the USA's safety standards with the UE's, than to design the same car multiple times for different markets. Though I'm glad they removed certain Japanese safety features, such as the government-mandated chime that plays when exceeding 80(?) km/h.

Stephen Gillie

*holds the relay* "It's not a relay" *hooks up the relay* "You can hear the clicking from the switch inside" *holds the relay up so you can hear the relay click* Like you're describing a mechanical wooden duck. Wind up the spring and it'll walk around, or swim if it's in water, and has a bike horn to quack. Edit: To clarify - in the electrical engineering world, it's not really a relay - maybe a thermal relay. But in the automotive world, it's a relay. Similar to how we might see them as sodium, mercury, or LED lamps - but when you're onstage it's still the limelight - despite no longer being generated by a big rock of calcium heated until it glows from a high heat torch flame.

Stephen Gillie

When I went to buy my Accord, I specifically went to the back to see if the turn signals were amber (they were, and it was really too late to nitpick at this point in the process anyway). The salesguy saw what I was doing and said, "Yep, they're yellow," so I guess they get their fair share of JDM nerds (people who want their Japanese cars to be 'as sold in Japan' as possible). Also, the only lights on the whole car that aren't LED are the rear turn signals and reversing lights.

Darren Pierce

I discovered a classic "only the Germans" thing with my daily driver (a fairly recent Mercedes, so new enough that the flasher is probably computer-controlled). I had to leave my car with hazards flashing while checking into a hotel (it was a downtown hotel that didn't have its own driveway), and found that the "duty cycle" of the hazards *changes when the ignition is off*. Normally it's about 50%, but with the ignition off the on time is noticeably shorter (although the frequency is the same). I guess this is to reduce the drain on the battery if you leave it for a long time (similar to the idea behind parking lights), but still, what an obscure thing to think about...

Nick Loh

"We could do a whole video series on that sort of thing"...please do!

Karl Voelker

I work in IT dev for a tier 1 supplier in the ADAS space, the amount of separation between the technologies that I work with vs. what our engineers use has basically disappeared. The security, transport protocols, hardware, etc, are all the same exact underlying technologies and have been for a while now. Very cool, but also a little scary as they become more internet connected.

Uhm... Nope. Your story is incorrect. It comes from a "Three Stooges" skit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgyGwGMoh9U

Aleksei Besogonov

Years ago I remember being in a car where the turn signal tick-tock would get louder after a period of time in case the driver couldn't hear it. What manufacturer did this, and why don't modern cars do this? Seems extremely helpful for drivers who are mildly hard-of-hearing (as our aging population is increasingly becoming).

Sierra Mistystep

I WISH I had thought about this earlier. I could have sent you this video to use https://youtu.be/JTaA-ZEyf7g I had some issues with the infotainment. Which made my half hour drives to work and back interesting. It only happened once or twice when I had the car 🤷‍♂️

Joshua Doades

That Mr. Bean-like face when you're driving past 😂 Pretty everything is computerized now, don't forget the controller for those 3-phase motors driving your EV 😉 And if you want some big-ass manual switches: I'm into old streetcars (trams). At least in Zürich, until about the 1950s, the driver controlled the power switches (600V, up to 1000 A!!!) directly, using a rotary cam switch. You need to grow some muscles for operating these controllers, you hear the sparks popping when switching 😊.

MrHammond

Christmas lights are a kind of turn signal!! My life makes sense now!!!

nobody

I just wanted to say that watching your videos is always such a pleasure because regardless whether I know the subject from before or not, you go to such depths that there is always new stuff to be learned. Brilliant! Thanks!

Jonas

I had no idea that the lamp and the lens were engineered as a single unit. I might have otherwise replaced my incandescent lamps with LEDs, but now I know why I shouldn't. Fortunately my 2015 Honda Fit has made all the bulbs so goddamn hard to get to that I'm unlikely to ever replace them myself anyway. Speaking of the Fit, one thing that freaked me out about the turn signals in that thing is that they don't stop flashing immediately if you manually turn them off by moving the stalk to the center position. That caused me to do a bit of flailing a couple times before I realized they'll eventually sort out what's going on within 2 or 3 flash cycles. Seriously, though - WHY??

Circuitmike

"OK Blinker."

James Sutherland

I appreciate your PSA about LED bulbs and the dig at tinted tail lights. Some people like to argue that because the LED bulbs are brighter than the incandescents, they're better, but honestly, most of the time, there's no real difference. It's hard to argue against the instant-on, but then again, it isn't all that helpful of a difference, especially if they aren't as bright. Most of all, though, I like the soft on-off of incandescent turn signals, why would someone want to get rid of that? On modern flashers: it's interesting how different manufacturers control these things in different ways. Interestingly, it doesn't seem that Toyota uses computer controlled flashers - on my FRS I swapped the factory flasher module with an aftermarket one that gives me the tap-to-flash ability a lot of modern cars have, which was noticeably absent on this "modern" car. Though the lights can flash when you lock the car, so I assume that the ECU simply is providing voltage to the flasher, and it controls the lights somehow. It's also obviously getting constant voltage, since it also added a courtesy lighting options, holding the turn signals on steady for a few seconds after locking the car, giving a little bit of illumination in the dark. I've gone far into the weeds with turn signals and hazard lighting poking around old cars. Old signal circuits are stupidly complicated integrating a bunch of analog devices. But once you figure it out, it's pretty trivial. You start seeing the same things over and over again. Final note: Did you know that the turn signal in the last two generations of Ford Mustangs blink in such a way, that, to the driver, instead of a standard "tick tock" sound, you get a "clip clop" sound, as if it were a prancing horse making the turn signal sound. A neat little easter egg.

John Bradley

I changed lots of bulbs in my Prius V to LED bulbs. But only the interior lights. Big improvement. Also means if they get left on by accident (the switch is a very stupid protruding design that is easy to hit) it no longer drains the accessory battery in half a day (instead it now takes days). I think the external lights are almost all LED, except the rear turn signals for some reason, but they sure are big and visible. I am not messing with those.

Lennart Sorensen

I have a 2016 Nissan and a few months ago, I noticed that the turn signal clicking is artificial because it stopped when the car made the "low fuel warning" beep. And since I'm a geek, I'm now going to try some of the other things you showed, like turning on the hazard lights with the engine off. And holy cow do I *hate* those flashing brake lights. I've only seen them a handful of times, so they didn't seem like standard equipment.

Michael Dunn

An Aging Wheels *and* Doug Demuro reference in a Tech Connections video? Talk about cross-interest promotion! :) And a BMW burn, too! Tesla calls the "Chime Volume" setting "Joe Mode". Enabling it makes all the interior indication sounds quieter. It's called that because a guy named Joe tweeted Elon Musk and asked for the ability to make his Model 3 a little quieter inside when his kids are asleep. Fun history.

coredumperror

Is fosisticated a new slang I'm not aware of? 😁 #fosisticated https://youtu.be/2z5A-COlDPk?t=1327

OMG the incredibly subtle BMW dig (or maybe I'm just really slow) slayed me!

I first discovered artificial turn signals with my Nissan Leaf back ... almost 10 years ago now. I actually lived with it for at least a year before discovering, by happy accident, that the turn signal sound is totally faked. It was when I had the hazards on, and opened the door - it couldn't make the "door open / key in ignition" beeping (that occurs due to a bug with the KEYLESS system) and the clicking at the same time! So the hazards were just... silently flashing. It doesn't use the stereo for this, though. There's a "VSP" - Vehicle Sound for Pedestrians - module behind the glove box. It controls both an internal and an external speaker - external for that fake "ooouueeeiiiiuuuuuu~~" sound, and internal under the dash in the footwell area for all the chimes, beeps, clicks, and the derpy little startup sound it makes when you hit the power button. Amusingly, the blinker click is one of them. Tesla, now, is similar - it's all fake, but I'm pretty sure the dash indicator, sound, and actual lighting is all synchronized. Even the little model of your car on the display gets its headlights, brake lights, and blinkers accurately displayed in state. What bugs me to no end, though, is that the turn signal stalk is "soft" - it often misses quick flicks (normally misses the flick to disengage), and it works hard to "round out" your actions with a full period of on/off. Aesthetically pleasing, ... but absolutely irritating for someone looking for instant reactions to what used to be an analog system. Here's one to get you in a tussle: I swapped my rear brake lights - which have those awful combined red strips as brake/blinkers - for a version that has a dedicated amber signal. The plug in the car has the wiring for a dedicated signal, and I'm so "with you" on the amber thing that I sunk a fair bit of money into achieving it after someone commented they couldn't see my blinker (and I'm ... somewhat blinker obsessed like you). Now... is that a good thing or a bad thing, "modifying" my lighting to add amber? =) (it's still an OEM part)

Matt Falcon

Is your car actually a Rube Goldberg machine in disguise? Here's how to check: 1. The indicators are just a motor rocking back and forth between two ptm switches 2. Your seat belt is a string of intricate and ornate, but highly fragile, paper chains 3. Winding the handle for your window adjusts the mirror, which causes a domino to fall off it 4. You can't adjust your seat, because of the watermelon behind it 5. Starting your engine begins when you step on the floor as you get out of bed, sending a die cast car skittering into the cat, who has several strings tied to him. It is unclear how this was accomplished. You may require stitches. 6. In order to change gear you must leave the vehicle, climb atop it, and dislodge the appropriate croissant 7. Braking is achieved via the watermelon behind your seat. You may perform the action once and once only. It may be better to check that local law enforcement aren't behind you at the time. This manoeuvre requires 14 minutes and specific wind conditions to complete successfully. 8. If you wish, you can operate the radio volume changer, which pulls on a rubber band attached to a string which knocks loose a tennis ball which drops into a bucket which tips over and pulls down a domino which slides into a house of cards which collapses causing an action figure to begin crawling under the passenger seat until it reaches the relay for the seat heater which causes you to yelp in pain and jerk upward which activates a switch in the ceiling above you, and engages the parking brake. 9. Refuelling the vehicle is prohibited in any civilised nation. Refuelling it more than four times may cause significant damage to the GDP of the host country. And besides, it's unlikely you'll be able to find enough elephants.

Xyon of Calhoun

Artificial noises grrrr. Well it does have a useful purpose unlike those Soundaktor devices. So how's those battery cells in the bolt ⚡ doing?

PiraTed

I thought for sure it always used some kind of motor pressing on two buttons.

Braxen

I thought that same about hyperflashing! I removed a section on this (as well as another because - wow this was long enough) where I talked about the sanity check this gave me. I didn't realize that both the thermal and capacitor-based flashers are normally open. Since every turn signal I've ever used going back to a 1984 Corolla is normally closed, I figured they were too. But once it became clear how they worked, I realized they have no ability to change their flash rate based on how many bulbs are lit. And indeed they don't - I checked! I plan to do something for Connextras showing that.

Technology Connections

Wow, I didn't know that the hyperflashing that you get when a turn signal bulb is out was a designed feature--I always just thought that it was just some sort of naturally occurring effect that happens when a light burns out (also didn't know that there was an actual word for it--hyperflashing that is). Also didn't realize that the window switches no longer handled the full current needed to operate the window motors, but were now actually some sort of "fly-by-wire" system--which I must say is an improvement.

Mark Hesse

I've always wondered how turn signals worked. Thanks for diving into it. I had a 2000 Buick LeSabre and it's factory radio produced the bongs and chimes. It didn't have a modern infotainment system but a basic radio. It allowed you to toggle the bong/chime volume between hi/lo by holding down the 1 button. I got an aftermarket radio kit for it later that came with its own little speaker to play the bongs and chimes. Also, my current car is a 2007 Acura TL and it has the window roll down feature from the remote too. Can't roll them up remotely but you can roll them up or down though by using the key in the door lock. Turning and holding to the unlock position will roll them down. Turning and holding to the lock position will roll them up.

Surprised there wasn't a 555 timer in any of the modules.

Francis

lol @ the video ID

SonOfSofaman

Hahaha that's awesome.

John Dye

I'm really not worried about that, and in any case that plate's not even valid. There's another one under it :)

Technology Connections

Left your license plate number in there. Did you intend to?

John Dye