The Bronze Age Collapse - IV: Systems Collapse - Extra History
Added 2017-07-14 17:00:00 +0000 UTCIt started with famine... and ended with four great civilizations' utter destruction. What can we learn from the Bronze Age Collapse?
Reminder: After this episode, Extra History will be taking a short medical leave. We'll be back starting on July 29!
Comments
Thank you for "the lesson for today." You neatly refuted the Luddite path, and pointed out how much better off we are today. But you warn that we shoudn't get complacent. I have a thought. A couple decades ago, on NPR, I heard that Lloyd's of London, hard-headed, no -nonsense business people, had paid out on an insurance policy that had been written to cover crops against loss from global warming. That sould be proof enough for anyone, The remaining honest arguments are over how much warming will there be, when, why, and maybe what to do.
Bill Lemmond
2017-08-04 13:12:54 +0000 UTCAh well
Brian Rose
2017-07-19 06:23:17 +0000 UTCThanks so much! We expect disagreements - nobody's perfect, especially not us, and we try to own up to that as best as we can during Lies. But we also try our best to provide a well-reasoned perspective and we hope you enjoy joining us here in the Patreon community!
Extra History
2017-07-18 18:39:51 +0000 UTCLooking at this, I think it is great that you guys get involved with the people who support you, that's important. I may have grievances here or there. ((Ahem....d-day ep2)). But you guys do amazing work, and it makes me happy to see someone take history seriously, instead of brushing it off and stuff that just happened. Keep up the great work, you defently have earned my financial support.
Bumble
2017-07-18 09:37:49 +0000 UTCWell, we will just have to wait and see. I Remember feeling annoyed that Attila the Hun lost to Ned Kelly, but the Ned Kelly Series Turned out to be One of the best of the Bunch in my Opinion. Please tell the Kiner Brothers I still listen Regularly to the Ned Kelly Music Video, and David that I like his style of Art.
Martin Verran
2017-07-17 12:05:17 +0000 UTCA bibliography would be great!
Tobias Gross
2017-07-17 09:07:06 +0000 UTCThe thing is the best solution to these situations is to cut your losses and try to adjust your system to your now shrinked resources, something that no one likes to do as it means someone (if we're talking about the real world) would be screwed as the burden of this adjustment will not be equally shared. And if we're talking about the game we have a complete aversion to this moment where we have to stop advancing and take a step back.
Michael Waisfeld
2017-07-17 06:21:02 +0000 UTCGlad you enjoyed it! Adding bibliographies is an ongoing discussion for us; it's not happening this time around but if you're interested in a book I (Soraya) have been reading so I'll be prepared to discuss the subject with James (who wrote this series) during Lies, I recommend this one: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/1177-B-C-Year-Civilization-Collapsed/dp/1491581433" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/1177-B-C-Year-Civilization-Collapsed/dp/1491581433</a>
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:25:54 +0000 UTCHe's always here! Somewhere, eventually. ;)
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:24:40 +0000 UTCI kind of enjoy how many civilization strategy games have kinda nailed this connected infrastructure concept, where so often the collapse of multiple pillars of the society you're building has ripple effects that reach into your other systems as well.
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:24:31 +0000 UTC! Did Walpole send you?
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:19:24 +0000 UTCGlad we could introduce you to another instance of societal collapse! ;)
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:19:19 +0000 UTCWhat do you think the Dark Ages were? Zombies! All zombies!
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:17:46 +0000 UTCThat's chilling. I think it's correct, but it's a chilling reminder of how conscientious we need to be about safeguarding our own future.
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:17:29 +0000 UTCI'm not sure what the reference is so I couldn't say!
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:16:55 +0000 UTCJames did the work on this series but I'll flag it for him and see if it's something he wants to mention in Lies!
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:16:07 +0000 UTCI don't have a bibliography (James wrote the series, and this is Soraya, hi) but I have been reading and enjoying this book which gives a good overview: <a href="https://www.amazon.com/1177-B-C-Year-Civilization-Collapsed/dp/1491581433" rel="nofollow noopener" target="_blank">https://www.amazon.com/1177-B-C-Year-Civilization-Collapsed/dp/1491581433</a>
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:15:47 +0000 UTCI'll pass your well wishes along to David!
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:15:18 +0000 UTCJames draws those parallels really well, I gotta say. As someone who's been trying to learn the writing style, this is still an approach I'm not very good at, so it makes me all the more impressed when I see James doing it so well! -Soraya
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:15:07 +0000 UTCIt is David (the artist) but I'll pass on the well wishes! Last I heard he was resting up well, which is exactly what we want him to be able to do.
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:14:11 +0000 UTCHappily I do think we're a bit more stable than we were in the Bronze Age, so a few shakes probably won't take us down. At least we have that!
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:13:31 +0000 UTCWould that it were so simple! Neither James nor I could reschedule for that. Lies will be after the one-off episodes come out.
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:11:02 +0000 UTCGreat Northern War is indeed up next! We try to travel around as much as we can when finding possible series topics so we'll be back to the Middle East - with Khosrow forstarters, but certainly we'll come back for more than that as well. I hope you both enjoy the Great Northern War series!
Extra History
2017-07-17 02:10:40 +0000 UTCWell never Mind in that Case, Sara. I too can Think of Plenty of Places whose History is understudied so I was very happy when Khosrow I Won the last Vote. I was going to say "Belated Welcome to our little Patreon Community" but that doesn't make sense now because there's 4,074 of us so I'm going to throw in a Sheep Joke and say, "BAAAAAAAAHlated Welcome to our 4,074 strong and Increasing Patreon Community."
Martin Verran
2017-07-16 13:25:43 +0000 UTCAlso, fantastic series. Thank you for making it
Alec Barns-Graham
2017-07-15 23:03:54 +0000 UTCHello! Please please please include a bibliography for your videos!
Alec Barns-Graham
2017-07-15 23:03:26 +0000 UTCtheres wallpole.
schuyler
2017-07-15 20:33:55 +0000 UTCReminds me of that moment in Shogun 2 Total War (And any of the newer ones really) when u have to destroy production buildings that cause unhappiness because u can't afford the garrisons but now you don't make enough money to pay for the extra troops that you need for a war that another faction just declared on you. In the best of scenarios you manage to scrape together enough money and military might to expand enough to get sufficient extra resources to get back on your feet. In the worst case you start losing cities, and thus resources, and enter a downward spiral from which there is no return but to press "quit to main menu"
Michael Waisfeld
2017-07-15 20:17:05 +0000 UTCI am new here (I came during the last vote day for new series) so we could not have had this depate before. May I inquire why you feel this is not a good idea? Imo series that has multiple interesting characters form different sides (but not one main character which can result in positive protagonist bias), conflict that has some twist and impact is right what Extra History does best like with Opium War series (my favorite). And the region and era is not overdone. Russia has a series but rest of Northern Europe does not and the century only has South Sea Bubble if I recall correctly.
Sara Samaletdin
2017-07-15 19:10:31 +0000 UTCWell I have a different theory - it was _totally_ subprime mortgages wot dunnit...
Porcupine
2017-07-15 17:17:01 +0000 UTCAnother awesome series. I must admit to having been uninformed about the bronze-age collapse. Not anymore. Quite a baffling event even given James' compelling supposition. The famine theory is pertinent though. Consider this, of the five extinction events we know about, all but one was caused by climate change. Don't mess with Mother Earth or take her for granted!
Huw Rollinson
2017-07-15 13:51:56 +0000 UTCI Think we have had this Debate before and I beg to Differ. Precisely why so many People would Request the same Topic is beyond me, although I do admit that, as a Student of History, I am rather curious. My guess is we'll just have to wait and see when the Series starts.
Martin Verran
2017-07-15 13:00:30 +0000 UTCGreat Northern War is the most promising series for a long time, it has everything that can make a great Extra History series. Speculation series like this when we have little facts are difficult.
Sara Samaletdin
2017-07-15 12:54:15 +0000 UTCBut where do zombies figure into all this? Surely zombies figure into all of this!
Michael Jebbett
2017-07-15 07:01:52 +0000 UTCMy college history professor said this on the very first day of class and it stuck with me. "Civilizations rise, and civilizations fall. Their rise is never due to some moral superiority or genetic advantage, but more often than not mere chance and circumstance. Their fall is not some great lesson delivered from on high or the wrath of an angry divinity, but rather long term goals being sacrificed for short term gains."
Justin M.
2017-07-15 00:44:49 +0000 UTC2:42 - Was that dark water from the cartoon?
Justin M.
2017-07-15 00:29:26 +0000 UTCAwesome series, thanks for drawing attention to this fascinating piece. I wonder, in your research, did you encounter anything supporting a parallel between the Bronze Age Collapse and the later myths of a hostile sea power referred to as Atlantis in Plato's Timaeus dialog? The stories of ancient Greece and Egypt falling to the waves of invaders from the sea brought that to mind.
Ed
2017-07-14 18:46:20 +0000 UTC"Killing each other for their next meal." I'm glad you had a picture of a guy with a sandwich otherwise things would have taken a REALLY dark turn. Do you have a bibliography of sources you used? It sounds like there are some really interesting books I'd like to read on this subject.
Jason Youngberg
2017-07-14 18:43:31 +0000 UTCGet to feeling better my dudes!
Max Hardcastle
2017-07-14 18:31:54 +0000 UTCGreat episode - really glad it came back around to drawing comparisons to the current day.
Connor Raikes
2017-07-14 18:28:19 +0000 UTCgood job really hope dan gets better :)
Teagan Broadhead
2017-07-14 17:55:47 +0000 UTCListening to this and how civilisations collapse remind me of Richard Feynman's words when he was part of the investigation into the Space Shuttle Colombia's explosion: 'For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled' Hence, I am waiting nervously for the end result of Britain's political shenanigans thus far.
SparkyDJM1
2017-07-14 17:35:48 +0000 UTCGreat series guys! If I might make a suggestion -- since David is taking sick leave and you're looking for a replacement illustrator, why not, instead of taking next week off entirely, use it for James to do the Lies episode for this series?
Brian Rose
2017-07-14 17:18:09 +0000 UTCThis was disappointingly Short for a First Forray into Middle Eastern History, methinks. Let's see what's next on the Schedule...hang on a Minute, the Great Northern War?...uh, oh...
Martin Verran
2017-07-14 17:10:55 +0000 UTC
