The First Opium War - III: Gunboat Diplomacy - Extra History

Excellent work on this series! I'm glad that this important war is finally getting more exposure in the West! May I suggest that you cover the First Sino-Japanese War, the Russo-Japanese War, and the Japanese invasion of Manchuria in the future? Please and thank you!

MDB

It's a very nice diplomatic sleight of hand! Too bad it didn't work. :(

Extra History

And thanks for covering for me while I was away, Arthur.

Extra History

He's sneaky, but not sneaky enough to evade you!

Extra History

And then happen again during the Second Opium War. :(

Extra History

Already on my list for James. :) As I mentioned, if we use it, we'll be sure to credit you for the link! (And I'm assuming it's pronounced "sky-ler," am I correct?)

Extra History

Maybe both!

Extra History

He doesn't wind up doing anything directly, that is to say, historically, but in our hearts we all know that it was entirely his doing, for Walpole controls all evil events within the universe.

Extra History

Welcome!

Nessf

Creator Posts are where topics made by the Extra Credits crew (the people who are the creators) go. Patron Posts are where topics made by the Patrons - us - go.

Nessf

Martin Verran

Fire ships were used to set enemy ships on fire. It was a pretty effective tactic since ships of the time were made out of wood and the last thing any captain wanted was to have his ship set on fire. In this case, the chinese most likely deployed their fire ships for that reason since the british ships were supposed to blockade the river, making them somewhat immobile. It didn't work out because the british knew how to deal with such tactics. After all, they deployed their own fire ships to defeat the spanish armada.

Byron Becker

The Nemesis, the British ship, possessed a truly impressive amount of firepower for the age. The powerful steam-driven engines provided enough power to move a much heavier gun platform than the previous generation of ships, and steam meant that the Nemesis could travel against the winds and the tides, allowing the British tremendous tactical mobility. By contrast, the Chinese naval vessels were woefully outmatched, with smaller, weaker cannons and hulls that could not stand against the powerful British naval batteries. The 32-pound guns on the Nemesis were impressive, the Congreve rockets were accurate and powerful, and her shallow draft meant that she could sail the ocean or the riverways up to Canton itself. These early engagements, on or near water, played directly to Great Britain's strengths, and the Chinese sailors sailed into death traps because of it. The Chinese couldn't control their territorial waters, and that gave the British all the flexibility they needed. Up next, the advantages of rifles over matchlock muskets.

Jim McGeehin

Why did the Chinese use fire ships? Were they hoping they would protect the war junks?

Hung Nguyen

This has the hallmark of tragedy awaiting to happen.

Farzad Mansouri

Don't think we didn't see you there Wallpole, you time travelling troublemaker you.

Michael Jebbett

Wallpole i so called order of the bath .

schuyler

Remember, talk to your kids about tea. I mean opium. Wait, I definitely mean tea.

Lou Hartman

Fun fact: Wong Fei Hung, a master martial artist and a Chinese folk hero, was born a few years after the First Opium War. Luckily he lived all the way in Foshan, the hotbed of martial arts, for the opium to have any influence on his family. Unfortunately, even though he and Yip Man lived in the same province, the latter was born in a time where the commonness of opium was more prevalent in Foshan.

Joo-Hwan Jun

Though seeing that grin and him crossing out some stuff on the chalkboard has a bit of a ominous feel to it, like he has something to do with further aggravating the situation.

Joo-Hwan Jun

Walpole! I saw Walpole! It'll be Walpole!

The Cayute

We haven't seen a naval based stomping like this since the Japanese invasion of Korea involving Admiral Yi. I find it really interesting that both sides agreed to give 6 million pounds, so really at the end no money was actually really lost by either party...er would have had the treaty actually been signed and the war ended.

Sean Sarff

This seems to be moving really fast. The time between the first shots getting fired and the British moving troops to China was by necessity very long simply due to the distance and travel times at the time. This meant that the early stages of the first opium war were a lot like the war of 1812, conducted without the politicians really understanding what was going on and without knowledge of what they had decided. This meant that while the first skirmishes over water and food for the exiles from the factories in Guangzhou were going on, parliament was discussing putting in some real effort towards stopping the opium trade and respecting Chinese sovereignty. For many of the liberals who had been carried into power during the first round of socialist unrest in Europe, though they had also turned against the workers who had risen them to power, respecting the sovereignty of other nations was a pretty big deal. Even the conservative Lord Palmerston was initially willing to accept this position to save the government and avoid costly, unpopular wars. For a while it even looked like this view would carry the day, then word that the Chinese and British had been firing at each other came in. With that word came William Jardine, one of the two founders of Jardine, Matheson and Co., the largest and most important company in the opium trade. He began a heavy lobbying campaign for teaching the Chinese a lesson and enforcing free trade, particularly targeting Lord Palmerston. Using the company's immense wealth to both ply members of parliament and to have very detailed maps and military plans of the region made to show how a war would be conducted. The presence of a finished plan, along with the word that the Chinese had opened fire on British civilians was what ultimately swayed parliament, neither long term planning nor Jardine trying to entertain members of parliament to lobby for it had managed it before. Similarly, throughout the war and after it there was a substantial opposition in the UK. Especially the budding worker's movement saw it as the elite acting out in greed and exploiting the common people even in a foreign country, as well as a willingness to sacrifice the common man for money. This would remain a key, if often forgotten, feature of British socialism for decades with some of Karl Marx' angriest writing being opposition to the second opium war and condemnation of the first. Among the liberals there was also opposition, though it faded faster, to violating the sovereignty of foreign states purely for the sake of trade. It's also important to keep in mind the importance of the distance. Had there been a telegraph between England and China as the war broke out, more detailed word coming from somebody who wasn't the most important opium smuggler on the planet could have reached London and the government back in England could have given Elliott clearer instructions and a clearer mandate for negotiation than he had before the first shots were fired. It might not have prevented the war, but it would at the very least have happened on a far more planned and coordinated basis. It is also likely that it would since Jardine would have had much less power in shaping the views of parliament, Elliott much more so and the government in London would have been able to directly talk to the Chinese and work out its national strategy. Oh, and what happened to Lin Zexu? Exiled to Siberia. Specifically the Ili region of Xinjiang which is located to the north of both the Tarim and Dzungarian basins covering part of the Altai mountains and geographically part of the Siberian and Mongolian regions rather than the deserts of Central Asia.

Christina Maria Jessen