Talk to the Audience?!? - February 2021

This does not steal my thunder

Drew Mackie

Right, clarification on that: I did mean that she's currently only one of two live-action trans superheroes (at least at the time I finished things last year, but I don't believe it's changed), the other one being Jericho on DC's Titans. That being said, there IS one other confirmed trans character on Supergirl, who is Dreamer's roommate. She only appears in a few episodes and unfortunately plays into some stereotypes of Black women more broadly, but in a literal numbers sense, Dreamer isn't the *only* trans character there then

Dylan (batmanboy11) Freitag

As a cis person, I have to say it breaks my heart when I hear trans people say "you just get used to it," even though as a gay person I get it and also got used to gay jokes before people got hip to not doing those in that same way anymore. But it's a huge bummer to know that a show like The Simpsons having an underlying transphobia is something you just have to deal with.

Drew Mackie

That is an interesting way to look at that broader situation. But question: Dreamer and then who else on Supergirl is trans? Or I guess the "half" you're referring to?

Drew Mackie

I get your point but I'm not sure my video is a great cross-section of how the show does in general just because I'd say the LGBT jokes fail more often than others do. But then again I am biased.

Drew Mackie

It is incredibly hard to find any, let alone any GOOD ones

Dylan (batmanboy11) Freitag

My thesis looked at the different depictions of femininity presented on the current Supergirl show, which meant digging a lot into the history of trans representations both broadly in western media and within comic books themselves since Supergirl features the first (and only 1/2) trans superheroes in live-action. Part of my interest in the project was really getting to dig into that character and compare/contrast how she was presented with the existing canon of trans characters. That whole process really made me extra sensitive to media's transphobia since I spent so much time reading and viewing all these examples over the better part of a year. I wasn't entirely unfamiliar with how offensive these depictions were going into the project, but it still really beat to death how repetitive, lazy, and hateful these tropes are.

Dylan (batmanboy11) Freitag

I enjoyed Drew's video... Well, maybe for the wrong reason, but I felt it was a perfect study of how low the Simpsons has sunk. We see in the first eight seasons how rich the show was... The jokes are always in good humor, and half the time I had to really think to see the LGBTQ angle... and they were always FUNNY. Then we hit the Scully and early Jean years and everything gets mean-spirited and nasty... Then we hit the Zombie years (pretty much anything made in this century) and everything goes over like a lead balloon. Our pal Stuart Gipp commented that he'd love to do a thread of just screencaps of unfunny Simpsons jokes and see how endless it could be... Drew has kind of done that for us...

Thad Komorowski

The point about the show being MORE offensive in the early 2000s than at the beginning of their run is so fascinating to me. It's not just the Simpsons, but seemingly pop culture as a whole. Is it that hack writers knew their time was coming up and they had to make their shitty jokes while they still could? I'd love to read a thesis (if one exists) about how/why comedy got so mean during this era. Was it just South Park and endless imitators?

Tyler M.

Not to steal Drew’s thunder, but the channel LS Mark also recently did a big Simpsons binge where he reviewed every episode of the series so far. I don’t agree with all of his ratings, but the video is like six hours long. Worth a watch if you want to hear the Simpsons unironically say things like “epic fail” in the later years. Also as a Canadian listener, we do have Disney + Stars as well. When I saw it added a bunch of sitcom cartoons I looked for King of the Hill and was supremely disappointed when I didn’t find it.

Lockerus

Damn, yeah. I 100% feel you on this.

P.S sorry for ranting! Love the show keep it up fellas! ♥️

Camille Walters

As a Trans Simpsons fan just thought I'd chime in. You kinda get used to the transphobic jokes and sometimes you just forget they are there and then they hit you for six out of nowhere! Watched most of the early seasons on repeat when I was younger pre-transitioning and I look at those jokes in a very different way since. Sucks to know one of my most influential and favourite shows has those kind of jokes in there so often. I remember specifically the line of Rodd or Todd (can't remember which one!) saying 'I'm jealous of girls cause they can wear dresses' being an important one for me cause that's something I said to my mother as a kid and when she saw that joke she made fun of me. Still kinda stings when I hear that line. I gotta check out that YouTube vid, really enjoyed the chat with Drew! I haven't watched many of the new seasons but the episode with the gay weddings always did annoy me too. They were so close to having it right but the ending was always upsetting for me. That was around the time I stopped watching originally.

Camille Walters

re: LGBT content: Not that I expect this level of continuity from the early years of The Simpsons but it's established in season 8's "Homer's Phobia" that Homer is slow to pick up on John's sexuality & then reverts to gay panic when he does. Going by that, I would assume in season 2's "Simpson & Delilah" Homer has no idea Karl is gay. Considering everything Karl does to help Homer I would like to think if he knew Karl was gay that experience would have calmed Homer's later irrational behavior & had him accept John's friendship without the qualifier of having him save his life. Of course, the latter episode wouldn't have been as funny but would have more humanity.

James Babbo

Since I've been binging through Gayest Episode Ever the past few weeks (anyone who hasn't started listening yet -- do it), it was an extra nice treat to hear a mini-interview with Drew

nina matsumoto

There is an Ally McBeal where she dates a bi guy. It's not great.

Drew Mackie

Tell me about this MA thesis

Drew Mackie

I've seen ONE example of a male bisexual on TV - in Crazy Ex Girlfriend. hopefully we can get some more representation in the future

mavrick

Loved the conversation with Drew on this episode and I'll have to check out his supercut, though I'm sure it'll anger me once we get into the middle seasons with all the transphobia. For my MA thesis I did a lot of research on trans representations and there has been so much awful, awful shit in films and television in the past century, and it really fucking bums me out that a show I love as much as the Simpsons is extremely guilty of this too. It's really not hard to avoid being fucking phobic about gender or sexuality, and in fact using those jokes means you're being a fucking lazy writer on top of at best being a thoughtless jerk. This area is where the Simpson really shows its age the most to me (well, that and their toothless politics, as mentioned with the Squad vs Trump West Side Story parody) and makes me want it to end at this point so it can stop being so Boomery. It's just so bizarre to me that the show was less offensive in 1990 than it was in 2000.

Dylan (batmanboy11) Freitag

An old friend of mine is actually the daughter of Marc Wilmore and I’m saddened to hear about his passing. Thank you for paying tribute to him. She loved him more than anything.

Serg Beret

I think you should do what a cartoon for every movie featuring All Star. You've already done Digimon. Now you can do Shrek. Next you have to do Rat Race which I guess you have to do on April Fool's, and of course Mystery Men.

Paul

Also, I live in Houston, which for people who don’t know is the 4th largest city in the United sates and it has poor public transportation and very spread out. So many good people went out and mobilize and helped the people in need. Ted Cruz sucks, and people are protesting in front of his town in the river oaks area of town (super wealthy area). ERCOT must be in public control and not in the hand of a private corporation.

Blarghjon

You guys should totally do a What a Cartoon Movie for the Peanuts movie.

ShyRanger

I’ve been going back and marathoning old pods like the Talking Critic series etc. love you guys!